share your ideas of morality of mind, in a specific context, be it related to ethics of work, family life, spouse or future spouse, with a friend, respect for elders as a friend and a teacher, parents, siblings or anyone who you serve through your work.
to you, from philosphical ideals and testing them out, how and where does science come in this?
Best,
Dushwari
Re: Moral Mind Science
^^ 
Come on … do your school assignments by yourself 
Re: Moral Mind Science
share your ideas of morality of mind, in a specific context, be it related to ethics of work, family life, spouse or future spouse, with a friend, respect for elders as a friend and a teacher, parents, siblings or anyone who you serve through your work.
to you, from philosphical ideals and testing them out, how and where does science come in this?
Best,
Dushwari
Peace Sisiter
I was hoping that you would beat me to it. You have introduced the concept of 'ethics'.
Philosophically 'ethics' as a subject as you would know is defined as that what is not fear or prudence. It is that what a person will avoid to satisfy a sense of uprightness without there being a negative consequence or a fear for that negative consequence.
For me this is the philosopher edging ever closer to the Islamic concept of Fitra i.e. the superior and natural disposition. The natrual instinct for personal gain is defined also and this closely resembles the concept of nufs.
As for science ... it is the need to investigate and obtain knowledge. Seekers of knowledge or seekers of guidance are scientists with slightly different scopes to the scientists we understand from the relative position.
Re: Moral Mind Science
Psyah, howcome, tangible is always science, and untangible, philosophy?
Re: Moral Mind Science
Psyah, howcome, tangible is always science, and untangible, philosophy?
Peace Dushwari
No I think this is sematics. Science is hypothesise, test, evaluate conclude and this is first and foremostly established by philosophy. Philosophy is the mother and precursor to science.
Rather modern science has reduced the scope of philosophy to what is objective, substantive and material, whereas philosophy includes all these and in addition includes metaphysical, spiritual and analogical.
Science should not be seen as different to philosophy but rather a specialised form of it.
Re: Moral Mind Science
interesting and i also agree with the pairing of philosophy preceding science . in human context though other than social interacttions and insight into morality of behaviors, science has mostly been used to either prevent something harmful to human race or something that makes life comfortable.
but philosophy is unique in its utility that with the virtues, it brings out the facts nehind the vices of the human hearts and minds and even living states,
as to how they came to a point to be in those conditions.
so would it be wrong to say that there ought to be a consolidated turn-taking that philosophy and science will partake, in furthering the human races' or one of its member's well-being, while it enables the race or its given member to adapt self-checking to keep science handy, but philosophy serve as that science's end goals' guide?
Dushwari
Re: Moral Mind Science
interesting and i also agree with the pairing of philosophy preceding science . in human context though other than social interacttions and insight into morality of behaviors, science has mostly been used to either prevent something harmful to human race or something that makes life comfortable.
but philosophy is unique in its utility that with the virtues, it brings out the facts nehind the vices of the human hearts and minds and even living states, as to how they came to a point to be in those conditions.
so would it be wrong to say that there ought to be a consolidated turn-taking that philosophy and science will partake, in furthering the human races' or one of its member's well-being, while it enables the race or its given member to adapt self-checking to keep science handy, but philosophy serve as that science's end goals' guide?
Dushwari
Peace Dushwari
It has already come together on a consolidated plain within Islam. If science is how humans can make their physical lives more comfortable then philosophy is about mkaing ones spiritual life more comfortable encapsulated in the word 'virtue'.
So what is it when we raise our hands to Allah (SWT) saying ...
My Lord gives us 'hasana' in the 'dunya' and 'hasana' of the 'akhira', and protection of the punishment of The Fire.
???
hasana of the dunya ... is that not the works of science?
hasana of the akhira ... is that not dependent on our deeds in this life born from 'virute' with the Mercy of Allah (SWT)?
Re: Moral Mind Science
well said, Psyah. so well said. akhiret really indeed reorients and leaves nothing in the world, worthy of running after the way unfortunately humans do.
best,
Dushwari
Re: Moral Mind Science
but philosophy is unique in its utility that with the virtues, it brings out the facts nehind the vices of the human hearts and minds and even living states, as to how they came to a point to be in those conditions.
Personally I believe that in philosophy, there should not be any mention of the word "vice". By terming something as "vice", you have already formed a negative opinion against it and your interpretation of that behaviour will not remain objective.
Re: Moral Mind Science
Coming to the original question, where I do understand the importance of morality in a particular society depending on the prevalent social requirements of the society, I do not believe that morality can/should ever be classified as a science. For me, morality is a dynamic set of rules which are applied to keep certain behaviour in check. Now behaviours do have real scientific reasonings regardless of their outcomes or the impacts on the society.
Re: Moral Mind Science
Peace All
Answering the question from the angle it was intended ... Science should be curbed for the endeavour of good. Not for power or exploitation. Nuclear power for example is good because it reduces the burden on the environment, but if used for weapons it is bad.
Science without morals will bring many colourful discoveries, but to what cost?
Re: Moral Mind Science
Peace psyah,
Interesting aspect. For me, curbing something is not a solution. If science had not progressed, is there any evidence that there would have been less killings in this world? There had been wars even when there was little scientific development.
On the same note, should religion be curbed because it has been one of the major causes of wars and destruction throughout history.
Re: Moral Mind Science
may I join the bandwagon? let me know if I am welcome
Re: Moral Mind Science
You are most welcome.
Re: Moral Mind Science
Witchdr,
i know you addressed psyah, but, i would like to say that religion is a very personal aspect of any human being, no matter how much organized and communal an affair you would like it to be, it has only one source - the piety in the link between oneself and the Maker.
no third being can vounch for the honesty in the religiousness of any given soul, good or bad, but the Almighty.
when someone really knows a person through her /his actions as religiously abiding by principles and morals encouraged or prescribed by a given religion, that is different and it has the purpose of serving as a witness to the individual's credence.
maybe, i am not absolutely correct in stating this, but i would still like to see that religion can be a science, a method preceded by a statement, and followed by its results.
all factors that we take into account in scientific inquiry do apply to religion and following it. testing, warning, improving, eliminating, keeping, repeating so on and so forth.
both science and religion are capable of peace and life construction.
best,
Dushwari
Peace psyah,
Interesting aspect. For me, curbing something is not a solution. If science had not progressed, is there any evidence that there would have been less killings in this world? There had been wars even when there was little scientific development.
On the same note, should religion be curbed because it has been one of the major causes of wars and destruction throughout history.
Re: Moral Mind Science
interesting ideal. i would wish the same. but vice is real and it is an outcome of deliberate withholding of virtue.
how do you persist is what makes the difference in
Personally I believe that in philosophy, there should not be any mention of the word "vice". By terming something as "vice", you have already formed a negative opinion against it and your interpretation of that behaviour will not remain objective.
Re: Moral Mind Science
Witchdr,
i know you addressed psyah, but, i would like to say that religion is a very personal aspect of any human being, no matter how much organized and communal an affair you would like it to be, it has only one source - the piety in the link between oneself and the Maker.
no third being can vounch for the honesty in the religiousness of any given soul, good or bad, but the Almighty. when someone really knows a person through her /his actions as religiously abiding by principles and morals encouraged or prescribed by a given religion, that is different and it has the purpose of serving as a witness to the individual's credence. maybe, i am not absolutely correct in stating this, but i would still like to see that religion can be a science, a method preceded by a statement, and followed by its results. all factors that we take into account in scientific inquiry do apply to religion and following it. testing, warning, improving, eliminating, keeping, repeating so on and so forth.
both science and religion are capable of peace and life construction. best,
Dushwari
Dear Dush,
I totally agree that religion is a personal aspect of a human being. However, the definition of "personal aspect" changes from person to person. Same is the concern with piety. Piety of a sufi is different from that of an imam. If religion is completely left to being a "personal aspect", there will be a hundred different version of each religion, some mellow and some wild.
Religion can not be a science for a few other reasons as well. Science encourages free flow of ideas to come up to solutions. Science encourages independent thinking. Religion does not. Religion asks you to follow a set of rules to achieve Janna. For achieving ones religious goals, independent thinking is not a prerequisite. Free thinking religious scholars don't exist.
Re: Moral Mind Science
interesting ideal. i would wish the same. but vice is real and it is an outcome of deliberate withholding of virtue.
how do you persist is what makes the difference in
Your views will hold good if there is only one religion in this world and all the world follows that religion. Many, but not all, vice and virtues are similar in different religions. Where and who will draw the line? Can a Muslim draw a line for a Christian or vice versa? Or which religion will draw the line for non-religious!
There are some universally accepted vice in the contemporary society. However, looking back in history, some of those vice were virtues.
Please do let me know what you think.
Re: Moral Mind Science
hi Wtchdr,
i don’t draw lines based on religions as in imposing on others what to do, and how to be. as a believing woman, what i can do, is that share what i know about my religion and through practicing good things, i should hopefully make them feel respectful for my faith. and what ever is my personal weakness, i take its full responsibility on my person. and i feel that in itself enables me to let go to things that i would like to see in myself as improving or changing towards spirituality and following religion's principles.
lying, theft, spying, deceit, exploitation, torture, destruction, rape, and murder to me are universal vices.
i cant imagine that they were EVER virtues.
what vices are virtues? or were in the history?
can you please share them here?
what does it mean by contemporary society? a melting pot, a nation that does not learn to do itself a favor by relying on itself, discord that is implanted by an enemy, mismanaged living of a community, a dysfunctional family and how its effects trickle to the society, some regional or ethnic pockets of people living in war zones, under areas of natural disasters , the diasporas of immigrants, or a traveler’s shifting abode? each one of them have their own strife to fight out.
what is a contemporary society? living in the shadows of history or scared of an uncertain future?
share your thoughts, if you like.
best,
Dushwari
Re: Moral Mind Science
Dear Dush, I fully understand your noble intentions. I understand that your focus is improving your own self to improve the society. You will not draw the line but there will always be others who will.
By contemporary society I mean the state of affairs of the world we live in at this period in time. I am not focusing on the state of a single nation, race, ethnicity, or a person.
I feel a bit confused when I hear people talk about the past nostalgically. Why this nostalgia? How is the present any more worse than the past? Was there any less misery in the past than there is now? Or is it now people have more access to information?
OK! One example would be the burning of the witches, which was considered beneficial for the society at that time.
Best regards.