Modi talks of minorities......

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
41

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by bdsurti: *

In short by the law of ''an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth'' the answer is unequivocally YES

[/QUOTE]

do you approve of the law of ''an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth''? If not then stop giving this arguement

"
If the miscreants had not set the Railway Compartment containing Woment and Children on fire there would have been no retaliation. "

Even if some miscreants did it ,It was government responsibility to protect people. Two wrongs doenst make it right.

Dont worry If you were my neighbour I would be first person to protect you at any cost.

42

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by anand: *

And my dear Mr fraudia, you see that to come out of one religious garbage and enter yours, no thanks a lot!
[/QUOTE]

abay, i was only inviting you to become an agnostic chanda :) thats a non garbage garbage :)

43

*Originally posted by bdsurti: *
Mr. Fraudia with your superior intellect please expalin your following statement :

**IF 5 ppl from a group of 100 attack and kill 2 out of a group of 500. it does not make any logical sense for 10 from the group of 500 to go and kill some other 12 from the group of 100.

What in your considered opinion should be the response by the Group of 500 of finding theat the Group of 100 has killed two members belonging to the group of 500?

How many people should the Group of 500 kill out of the Group of 100 in retaliation for the Group of 100 killing two members belonging to the group of 500? **

dear simpleton, did the entire group plan to go kill 2 ppl of the other group, or a few ppl that belong to a group go kill ppl from another group? You can not place the responsibility of actions of a few to a group that had nothing to do with it.

once again, find the people who killed innocent ppl and punish them severely, but dont go killing other innocent people.

I dont give a rodents posterior about whether they are hindu muslim or whatever, people are acting like jackasses and hurting a lot of innocent people and calling it a just retaliation. There is no justice in punishing innocents for the rimes of those who happen to look lik them or worshp the same way.

**Admit it Mr. Fraudia. Your true feeling is that the Group of 100 should not have killed any people of the group of 500.

Have a nice day **

My true feeling is that no one should go kill anyone. period. I will admit to it any day anywhere.

You have a wonderful day as well.

44

When a Muslim mob kills people of some other religion ‘la ilahi’ slogan is frequently in the air.
Hindu mob chants ‘har har mahadev’.

And when the killings are over, these killers, their supporters and their opponents chant in chorus that all religions are good.
As if ‘la ilahi’ and ‘har har mahadev’ are bogus staminas.
No friends it is a greater hypocrisy.

We are talking of Godhra conspiracy. I repeat that there are reports that the fire in the compartment was accidental, and if at a later stage we come to know that the reports are correct what these Hindu killers will say that the riots were ‘a wish of har har mahadev’?

India has a constitution, a system, but many people today are talking in the language of RSS, this is the problem.

45

andha_qanoon

do you approve of the law of ''an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth''? If not then stop giving this argument

In the present circumstances and order of things unequivocally YES

**" If the miscreants had not set the Railway Compartment containing Woment and Children on fire there would have been no retaliation. "

Even if some miscreants did it ,It was government responsibility to protect people. Two wrongs doenst make it right.**

So how many attacks of the miscreants should be endured before the aggrieved group can re-act? How many wrongs should be allowed to be committed?

Dont worry If you were my neighbour I would be first person to protect you at any cost.

Yes indeed andha_qanoon. You make me proud with your honesty. I pray to God that he always give me the strength to be able to emulate you although I would be even more honest by saying ‘’Oh God may such a time never come’’

Mr. Fraudia

dear simpleton, did the entire group plan to go kill 2 ppl of the other group, or a few ppl that belong to a group go kill ppl from another group? You can not place the responsibility of actions of a few to a group that had nothing to do with it.

This simpleton can only see things Simply, and this is my simple response since I am not as well versed in these Complex Subjects as your good self are. On coming to know of the crime committed against them, you expect the aggrieved group to think reasonably? My dear Sir they have been incensed out of their wits. Why can you not condemn the initial attackers rather than the responders? The responders in my eyes are equally guilty. Criticise both but with more emphasis on the initial miscreants.

If you take this attitude then the small handful of Miscreants will see sense. They will be convinced that any crime on their part against the other Group will not only bring the wrath of the aggrieved Group, but, their OWN GROUP will Crucify (figure of Speech) them as their own group refuses to condone their heinous acts.

once again, find the people who killed innocent ppl and punish them severely, but dont go killing other innocent people.

Fraudia Ji : I repeat that at times like this there is no cool thinking. Incensed People cannot be controlled by Bhajan-Keertan i.e. Singing Praises of God. The Incensed person(s) and the Group is totally MAD at the time of the crime that has been committed. So in order to save the lives of the innocent people of their Group, to which this small or handful of Miscreants belong, the Group must prevail upon the Miscreants not to commit the crime.

I dont give a rodents posterior about whether they are hindu muslim or whatever, people are acting like jackasses and hurting a lot of innocent people and calling it a just retaliation. There is no justice in punishing innocents for the rimes of those who happen to look lik them or worshp the same way.

I could not agree more with you.

I take the second last line to read ‘’for the crimes of those who happen to look like them or worship the same way’’

At the cost of repeating ?Ensure that the miscreants do not commit the initial crime. Fraudiji there are no BAD PEOPLE. The only cause for these Crimes is BAD LEADERSHIP. Every time these crimes are committed do you ever find a Leader who is done to death? NO. The Leader is only sitting back in his or her IVORY TOWER counting the strengthening of his or her VOTE BANK. The likes of you and I will die. The Leaders will be drinking Johnnie Walker Black Label or some such and laughing at their sheep-like supporters who have got themselves slaughtered.

I shall end by saying that Fraudiaji I do not pelt you with a stone, because, you will crush me with a Boulder. I do not commit a heinous act against you or people of your Group and thus you and your Group do not react.

** AN ANALOGY**

Pakistanis are very proud that India cannot attack Pakistan as Pakistan has Nuclear Weapons.

This means that, hypothetically, if the Indian Armed Forces attacksPakistan and kills, let us say, 1,000 Pakistani Soldiers and Civilians then Pakistan with Fifty Nuclear Warheads at their disposal will NUKE FIFTY INDIAN CITIES thereby killing let say Two Hundred Million i.e. 200,000,000 Indians. It is to be kept in mind that of the 200,000,000 Indians there will be Thirty Million i.e. 30,000,000 Muslims.

Now, how is it right for Pakistan to rain Nuclear Bombs on India and kill Two Hundred Million Innocent Indians? Indian Armed Forces killed One Thousand Pakistanis. Is it justified for the Pakistanis to kill Indians Two Hundred Thousand Times the Number of Pakistanis killed by the Indian Armed Forces.

Or would you gentlemen suggest that Pakistan search for the One Hundred Members of the Indian Armed Forces who killed the One Thousand Pakistanis and limit their killing to only these One Hundred Members of the Indian Armed Forces and not hurt the rest of the Innocent Indians?

I look forward to your enlightening response.

Both you gentlemen have a nice weekend.

46

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by bdsurti: *
**andha_qanoon*

do you approve of the law of ''an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth''? If not then stop giving this argument

In the present circumstances and order of things unequivocally YES

**** You are a sick man ******

**" If the miscreants had not set the Railway Compartment containing Woment and Children on fire there would have been no retaliation. "

Even if some miscreants did it ,It was government responsibility to protect people. Two wrongs doenst make it right.**

So how many attacks of the miscreants should be endured before the aggrieved group can re-act? How many wrongs should be allowed to be committed?

*****None.. But Government should Act .Not people. if for every attack by miscreants poeple keep punishing others then it will be jungle Raj.Then why do you need Police ,Government and Judiciary ***

Dont worry If you were my neighbour I would be first person to protect you at any cost.

Yes indeed andha_qanoon. You make me proud with your honesty. I pray to God that he always give me the strength to be able to emulate you although I would be even more honest by saying ‘’Oh God may such a time never come’’
.

*** Indeeed ****

[/QUOTE]

47

bdsurti

if we start looking at putting more blame in the group that attacked first, how far back do we want to go..each group is going to keep poitning at something else that happened last week, last month, last year. last decade.

to be fair, we must condemn violence against innocent people, no matter what. and equally.

as far as people who are mad and upset and they react and hurt innocent people of the other group, they are animals in my view, just as those who made the attack which caused the retaliation.

I dont get upset because muslims are killed and retaliate against my neighbour who is a hindu and a good pal. he had nothing to do with it. he does not come after me when muslims cause some violence.

if we start justifying hurting innocent people in retaliation for what has hapened to our "clan" we stop being human.

I dont condemn killing of innocents of one group more or less than others, theya re all humans, they are all innocent, they all hide the gift of life from the creator which some *******s took out because they dont have any sense, any humanity and any logic left. If we run our life by mob mentality all the time, toh phir ho gayee chutti.

dua goh

Fraudia

48

**AN ANALOGY

Pakistanis are very proud that India cannot attack Pakistan as Pakistan has Nuclear Weapons.

This means that, hypothetically, if the Indian Armed Forces attacksPakistan and kills, let us say, 1,000 Pakistani Soldiers and Civilians then Pakistan with Fifty Nuclear Warheads at their disposal will NUKE FIFTY INDIAN CITIES thereby killing let say Two Hundred Million i.e. 200,000,000 Indians. It is to be kept in mind that of the 200,000,000 Indians there will be Thirty Million i.e. 30,000,000 Muslims.

Now, how is it right for Pakistan to rain Nuclear Bombs on India and kill Two Hundred Million Innocent Indians? Indian Armed Forces killed One Thousand Pakistanis. Is it justified for the Pakistanis to kill Indians Two Hundred Thousand Times the Number of Pakistanis killed by the Indian Armed Forces.

Or would you gentlemen suggest that Pakistan search for the One Hundred Members of the Indian Armed Forces who killed the One Thousand Pakistanis and limit their killing to only these One Hundred Members of the Indian Armed Forces and not hurt the rest of the Innocent Indians?

I look forward to your enlightening response.

Both you gentlemen have a nice weekend. **

In perfect conditions we will not have to go to the how and why, but the IF question.

there should not be any war..period.

anyways war is different than murder and mob violence. I hope that our militaries are not run like mobs.

49

andha_qanoon Ji

****** You are a sick man ****** **

Yes I suppose so. Mr. Anand has already branded me of the ‘’sick psyche’’

Even if some miscreants did it ,It was government responsibility to protect people. Two wrongs doenst make it right.

Respected Sir : I hope you are aware that when such incidents occur the aggrieved are out of their mind with rage and do not give a ‘’half penny two penny’’ for the niceties of the Law.

Why is it that YOU CANNOT UNEQUIVOCALLY CONDEMN THE ORIGINAL ATTACK BY THE MISCREANTS?

*******None.. But Government should Act .Not people. if for every attack by miscreants poeple keep punishing others then it will be jungle Raj. Then why do you need Police ,Government and Judiciary *** **

Tell that to the people whose families were so brutally murdered. I am totally convinced of what your response would be in such a situation. After all it is only the wearer of the shoe who knows where and how the shoe pinches.

In addition I ask again : Why is it that YOU CANNOT UNEQUIVOCALLY CONDEMN THE ORIGINAL ATTACK BY THE MISCREANTS?

***** Indeeed **** **

andha_qanoon Ji : If, with the sentiment of care and regard you have given me, if anybody attacked you and the situation was such that it was threatening your life, then I will kill your attacker immediately rather than have the attacker kill you and I then spend the rest of my life going up and down to the Court and being hit by more and more LEGAL ADJOURNMENTS. I would have lost a dear friend, I hope I can call you a friend, if I were to let the Attacker Kill You and have your killer laugh in my face.

I know you would rather let the attacker kill you and let the Law takes its course. I admire your faith in the Legal System. It is most noble of you. However, I could not bring myself to have so much restraint that I could see you being killed and not act at all.

Again if I came to know that you had been killed I think I would go berserk with rage and behave in a manner that I cannot foresee in this calm atmosphere.

You may not approve of it, but, as you are fully aware I am a Hindu of Sick Psyche.

Have a nice day

Fraudia Ji

** if we start looking at putting more blame in the group that attacked first, how far back do we want to go..each group is going to keep poitning at something else that happened last week, last month, last year. last decade.

to be fair, we must condemn violence against innocent people, no matter what. and equally.

as far as people who are mad and upset and they react and hurt innocent people of the other group, they are animals in my view, just as those who made the attack which caused the retaliation.

I dont get upset because muslims are killed and retaliate against my neighbour who is a hindu and a good pal. he had nothing to do with it. he does not come after me when muslims cause some violence.

if we start justifying hurting innocent people in retaliation for what has hapened to our "clan" we stop being human.

I dont condemn killing of innocents of one group more or less than others, theya re all humans, they are all innocent, they all hide the gift of life from the creator which some ******s took out because they dont have any sense, any humanity and any logic left. If we run our life by mob mentality all the time, toh phir ho gayee chutti.*

Truer words were never spoken.

We do not attack the other community as we are far removed from the scene of the crime. In addition you must appreciate that the Ordinary Indian or Pakistan or Bangladeshi Muslim or Hindu is not educated to your level.

I think we can end up agreeing that the Initial Miscreants are at Fault and must be unequivocally condemned for their heinous act. The Responders are also to be unequivocally condemned for their response. However, we in our minds know that had the initial miscreants not carried out the heinous acts there would be no response – excessive or otherwise.

Meantime, can you please advise me how you managed to read my mind and post the above sagacious words, which are my thoughts too.

I raise my hat to you.

** In perfect conditions we will not have to go to the how and why, but the IF question.

there should not be any war..period.

anyways war is different than murder and mob violence. I hope that our militaries are not run like mobs.**

Yes there should not be any wars, but, I am sure they will be.

You know the behaviour of the Pakistani Military in 1970/1971 in East Pakistan where they killed Three Million People and Raped over 250,000 Women.

The Justice Hamidur Rahman may not quote these figures, but, it unequivocally condemns the Excessive Response and inhuman Acts of the Pakistani Army.

Fraudiaji aap soch rahey hongey that I must be getting some perverse pleasure by quoting these words.

Believe me I condemn it as much as you do and I am hurt as much as you are – the only difference is that I try to put myself into the Pakistani Armed Forces members’ shoes and think what would I have done? Tough question to answer.

I can only throw up my hands in resignation.

Unfortunately this happens with every Army – Indian or Pakistani, Russian or American or European, Chinese or Japanese.

Fraudiaji : You have definitely won the argument. Aap ki jeet hamari bhi jeet hai as this discussion is our argument.

Have a really nice day.

50

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by bdsurti: *

You know the behaviour of the Pakistani Military in 1970/1971 in East Pakistan where they killed Three Million People and Raped over 250,000 Women.
[/quote]

Taken care of that!

51

At Godhra in a railway compartment fire some Hindus were killed. The reasons of fire are still under question.
Anyhow, Hindus had to retaliate and they retaliated by killings near about 2000 Muslims. Two Muslims retaliated the whole episode, entered a Hindu temple and killed around 30.
Next turn is of Hindus to retaliate.
Hypocrisy has only one demand that is condemnation. And let killings continue!

It is in fact a sick psyche, but they call it religious.

52

bdsurti

and the whole discussion brings us to the point that what can you and I, as individuals do to make a positive change. Having a dialogue with like minded people is great and makes you realize that there are ppl jyst like you on the other side. The next step is to infect your neighbours, friends, family members with the same curiosity and urge to understand and to make things better.

There are a few trouble makers,
there are a few people making change
there is a huge group that just sits and wonders

pick your group. I think #2 is the place to be

53

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Fraudz: *
bdsurti

and the whole discussion brings us to the point that what can you and I, as individuals do to make a positive change. Having a dialogue with like minded people is great and makes you realize that there are ppl jyst like you on the other side. The next step is to infect your neighbours, friends, family members with the same curiosity and urge to understand and to make things better.

There are a few trouble makers,
there are a few people making change
there is a huge group that just sits and wonders

pick your group. I think #2 is the place to be
[/QUOTE]

Mr. Fraudia Ji,

Agree absolutely

I only wish there was some way to put all our Leaders into one ship and sink it in the Indian Ocean.

Hopefully there will be no further discord. Thre will be no more killings and no more retaliations.

However, our ''excrement stirrer'' wants to ''repair and cure'' the whole ''sick pyche'' initially of the Hindus, but now he has decided that everybody suffers from this ''sick psyche'' and he has the only answer.

Let us join togeather and wish him the best of luck.

Have a nice day.