How many of you uk ladies knew about this, and now knowing of it, would sign it?
i wish this was available world wide!
how disappointing that it has been researched so thoroughly and endorsed so much and yet cultural norms stand in the way.
Re: modern muslim marriage contract
i honestly havent heard about a girl not needing a wali. I think i did hear about that a divorced woman remarrying doesnt need a wali.
and what does "of age" mean?
Re: modern muslim marriage contract
What I want to know is that has this new contract been approved by a Mufti?
Re: modern muslim marriage contract
its been reviewed and approved by a number a muslim organizations, but not sure who is in charge of them and what their views are.
Re: modern muslim marriage contract
I'd like to know a bit more about how a woman was allowed to be a witness in this act....not that I personally have any issues with women being witnesses, but according to Islamic principles, a woman cannot. How did they come up with this... maybe I should read up more.
Re: modern muslim marriage contract
and isnt it 2 women witness for 1 male witness?
Re: modern muslim marriage contract
Looks like the Muslim Institute came up with this Act after collaborating with some other Islamic organizations.
Re: modern muslim marriage contract
and isnt it 2 women witness for 1 male witness?
Something like that Afshi, I forget, but I think you're right.
Re: modern muslim marriage contract
^can't doubling the number of women sort that out??
Re: modern muslim marriage contract
and what are the cultural aspects in the nikkah contract anyways?
can someone list them?
I know the haq mehr shoudl be given to the wife promptly since it is her haq. Not after if they have a divorce. It's not alimony, but a gift. I find it funny that people write an obsence amount of haq mehr and announce to everyone. I hope the poor guy actually has that amount and gives it to his wife pronto.
Re: modern muslim marriage contract
I hadn't heard of it until I read the article
Re: modern muslim marriage contract
Weird...never come across this.
Re: modern muslim marriage contract
Thanks very much for sharing this.
The two-women-witnesses-for-one-man thing is disputable. In the Qur'an the reference (Baqarah 2:282) is in the context of business contracts, an area in which women at the time of the Prophet would not have been as likely to be well versed. The translation I have here (Ahmed Ali is the translator) actually includes a footnote to clarify that his understanding of that verse is that the second woman who is there "to remind her" is not to be a second witness but to assist the first woman in her duties given the lack of familiarity that women would have had with financial issues at that point in history.
Re: modern muslim marriage contract
i took it to mean the imam’s refusal to follow the contract, and then her family members being uncomfortable with her mom being the wali because it goes against the norm. if this new contract is indeed correct islamically, then neither of those objections is valid. is this a case of err on the side of caution? but then, like she says, if its not clear re: the rules of the new contract, then why would all those islamic organisations endorse it?
The Muslim Institute took four years of extensive and careful Islamic research to come up with the marriage contract, seeking clarification between cultural assumptions and religious facts. It’s been endorsed by the Muslim Parliament of Great Britain, the Muslim Law Council, the Imam & Mosques Council and the Muslim Women’s Network – so surely, if the contract wasn’t Islamically valid, then none of these bodies would have put their weight behind it.
are any of you UK ladies familiar with any of the organisations listed above? are they in good standing?
Re: modern muslim marriage contract
Muslim Parliament
"…Its new leader Dr Ghayasuddin Siddiqui (no relation, but a close associate) began to introduce reforms into how the Muslim Parliament was to operate and engage with its social and political environment…’
[http://www.muslimparliament.org.uk/history.htm
‘](http://www.muslimparliament.org.uk/history.htm)Dr Ghayasuddin Siddiqui (born 1939) is an academic and political activist…’
[Ghayasuddin Siddiqui - Wikipedia
Muslim Women’s Network UK[TABLE=“width: 96%, align: center”]
’ Origins of MWN-UK
In 2002 the RH Patricia Hewitt, the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry and Minister for women, began meeting regularly with a small group of Muslim women. However, believing that the systematic exclusion of Muslim women’s voices in public policy meant that the serious social issues facing Muslim communities and Muslim women were unlikely to be successfully addressed, the group decided to establish itself as a network.
](Ghayasuddin Siddiqui - Wikipedia)[TABLE=“width: 100%”]
’ Haleh Afshar OBE (HONORARY PRESIDENT)
Haleh is the former Chair and founder of Muslim Women’s Network UK. She is Professor of Politics and Women's Studies at the University of York and in 2007 was appointed to serve as a crossbencher at the House of Lords. She has also served on the British Council and the United Nations Association of which she is Honorary President of International Services. She has authored and edited over 15 books and has written extensively on Iran and Iranian politics both for academia and the media in Europe, the United States, the Middle East and South East Asia’
http://www.mwnuk.co.uk/content.php?id=83
The rest of the board members are from professional backgrounds…No muftis, alima’s or religious scholarly types though. same goes for the Muslim institute below.
**T****he Muslim Institute
**
**‘******Director ********Merryl Wyn Davies: Appointed in May 2010 she is a writer and broadcaster with some 30 years of involvement with Muslim intellectual life. At bbc tv she worked for Everyman, Heart of the Matter and Global Report and was a regular contributor to the Muslim magazine Afkar/Inquiry. Her books include Knowing One Another: Shaping an Islamic Anthropology and Darwin and Fundamentalism. In collaboration with Ziauddin Sardar: Distorted Imagination: Lessons from the Rushdie Affair and a trilogy on America from Why do People Hate America? to Will America Change?.’
**’**Trustees:Dr Ghayasuddin Siddiqui is a well-known Muslim activist, an expert on Islamic fundamentalism and Muslim political thought. A champion of female empowerment he campaigns against forced marriage, domestic violence and murder in the name of honour. Together with senior clerics, he launched a Muslim marriage contract to protect the rights of women. He is co-author of a report on and campaigns against child abuse within faith-based environments. Dr Siddiqui has promoted dialogue and engagement across all barriers: social, cultural and political.’
http://www.musliminstitute.org/node/27
They don;t mention which clerics…
The all three institutions have highly educated members…but speak little of which Muslim authorities they consult when making their decisions… though I don;t entirely disagree with the proposals…
The shairah is the interpretation of hadith sunnah and Qur’an…meaning it’s man made. Thus, I do believe that it is flawed because we as human in our interpretation are flawed; there is room for growth and change with better knwoledge and understanding of the Qur’an. Though, there is a fine line in progression and innovation…May Allah give us hidayat.
Re: modern muslim marriage contract
SGC, the Muslim Parliament of GB is generally respected but not popular amongst traditionalists (for various reasons eg they discourage polygyny and nikkah only marriages - for practical reasons)..
Regarding the Hanafi position allowing women to marry without explicit permission of their wali: http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=12&ID=13657&CATE=10
Nikah still valid but not at all encouraged..
Re: modern muslim marriage contract
Personally I think the need for a wali is simply the nature of human beings as is. Men have more of an influence in their surroundings within society...I mean, I see the dynamics playing out n the workplace, women try to act like men and get butchered for being a b**** whereas if men are authoritative thy are doing a good job...Islam fits into societal norms. The value may not be apparent to us consciously but subconsciously we all recognise it is men with more of an influence...Inevitably men rule the world...But I am all for womens rights for equality in terms of different responsibilities...I fight for it...but one can't help human nature.
That's probably how I come to terms with the concept...Though Islam is not intolerant to circumstances that fall out of the norm. One must understand Allah is all knowing and Most merciful...he may see your sentiments and base your actions on that and reward you even if you may have carried it out incorrectly and vice versa...ultimately we shouold just keep it in our hearts we're trying to strive for good.
Re: modern muslim marriage contract
I'd like to know a bit more about how a woman was allowed to be a witness in this act....not that I personally have any issues with women being witnesses, but according to Islamic principles, a woman cannot. How did they come up with this... maybe I should read up more.
I think women can be the witnesses, it's the parents of bride or bridegroom who cannot act as witnesses because they are walis. I'm not 100% sure but I'll confirm this soon.
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It's a bit shocking to see the lack of Islamic knowledge by most people who responded. I am a muslim who has doubts about the existence of God because of science etc, but that is another subject all together. But i have "researched" Islam for a few years now as a Muslim and i know the basics, it's a bit hypocritical to not know this stuff.
In the words of House "follow it all or none".
My point is firstly cultures have distorted Islamic law in many places including marriage. Secondly the rule of two women for one man is ONLY IN BUSINESS TRANSACTIONS and that is because Men (even today in most countries) are in charge of business trade, so they have better knowledge on that subject, which is not a problem.
In witnessing a Nikah, it can be a person of ANY gender, but they have to be sane and an adult. Most scholars state that even in court cases 1 women's testimony = 1 man testimony. THE 2 FOR 1 RULE IS ONLY IN BUSINESS RELATED STUFF.
finally, i don't understand how people can EVEN THINK that 2 women = 1 man for witnessing etc is acceptable and not sexist??? To say that 1 woman cannot witness a marriage like a man is unacceptable and unfair. I have a few issues with religion but this is not one in Islam's case.
Re: modern muslim marriage contract
It's a bit shocking to see the lack of Islamic knowledge by most people who responded. I am a muslim who has doubts about the existence of God because of science etc, but that is another subject all together. But i have "researched" Islam for a few years now as a Muslim and i know the basics, it's a bit hypocritical to not know this stuff.
In the words of House "follow it all or none".
My point is firstly cultures have distorted Islamic law in many places including marriage. Secondly the rule of two women for one man is ONLY IN BUSINESS TRANSACTIONS and that is because Men (even today in most countries) are in charge of business trade, so they have better knowledge on that subject, which is not a problem.
In witnessing a Nikah, it can be a person of ANY gender, but they have to be sane and an adult. Most scholars state that even in court cases 1 women's testimony = 1 man testimony. THE 2 FOR 1 RULE IS ONLY IN BUSINESS RELATED STUFF.
finally, i don't understand how people can EVEN THINK that 2 women = 1 man for witnessing etc is acceptable and not sexist??? To say that 1 woman cannot witness a marriage like a man is unacceptable and unfair. I have a few issues with religion but this is not one in Islam's case.
Main point
Please show your Islamic sources, I'd be more than happy to accept this standpoint but without authentic hadith and Quranic backing I can't be sure either stance is correct. I hope someone with knowledge will enlighten us on the issue.
I, and many others on this thread, only mentioned perspectives and opinions, not a religious stances. So, please don't belittle the people on this thread as if you have much more Islamic knowledge. If you have knowledge share it with humility, do not scorn at others for not knowing, because that is then your own ignorance. Knowledge comes from Allah, it did not come to you all by yourself, so be humble.
Side note
Also, on your side point about doubts of god because of science, science confirms all that is written in the Qur'an.
If your doubts stem from the propaganda of evolution, I'd like to clarify that even this theory has its pitfalls, many previous discoveries of the 'missing link' between man and apes have been revealed as fake and man made proofs. Also the theory of evolution originated to believe in white supremacy over those with other races, believing through natural selection and evolution they developed more so than others and so should treat those of coloured skin as animals, if you don;t believe me check the records. This ultimately lead to Darwins grandson creating a white elitism club, which stretched far and wide across Europe and is one of the constitutive factors to Hitlers stance and rise. (bit of history for you there) The theory itself was clarified by darwin as being incomplete and full of holes.
If your doubts do not stem from such issues, it's food for thought anyway.
Not to mention, an illiterate man having such knowledge 14k years ago is impossible by any means, so where did he gain the knowledge he did?