"Moderate Muslims"

Lifestyle Relationships
1

A few days ago I was watching Demi’s old-semi-classic Striptease with a couple of friends when one of the guys asked me if I knew where the Jaay Namaz was…I was kinda surprised at the question but anyhow the host directed him to the right place for namaz. He prayed asar and then joined us again to watch the movie…after like half an hour he was ready for maghrib and this time he didn’t ask me anything and went straight to the drawing room for his prayers.

When the guy returned I asked him if he wanted us to watch some other channel as the movie contained R-rated material. He replied by saying “Don’t worry dude I am a moderate muslim…so tell me what did I miss” (I couldn’t tell him anything as it was all about watching)

Now, I see religion as a very personal thing and I try not to interfere in other people’s business but I really had a problem with his attitude. To me, you are either a muslim or you are not. There is no grey area or vagueness about religion. It is pretty simple black and white. When I call my self a muslim I take on the responsibility of representing a society. I cannot say I am muslim but I drink occasionally. I think that statement would be unfair to muslim community and a joke as far as islam is concerned.

Since 11th September the term “moderate muslim” has been very casually used to distinguish between muslims all over the world. What is your definition of a moderate muslim. Is this even a right term in the first place?

I am asking this question in Corner room instead or religious section because I am not looking for quotes from hadiths, ayats and guppie bible. I am more interested in what moderate muslims have to say about themselves.

ciao
BoSS

2

I remember sharing a similar story on Gupshup a while back, in which a friend of mine (that was in college) used to "pause" a porn flick to come out and pray and then go back in and rejoin. When I asked him about it he said "namaz farz hai aur movie mera shouq hai".

In his mind he was very clear that since namaz is farz (compulsory) so he must pray five times a day, and as for committing zina of eyes (watching movies etc), he will seek forgiveness for all sins, and the blanket forgiveness will also clear away sin of watching all such movies.

My thinking is that if you pray namaaz by understanding its full significance and meaning, then you will not even commit such things. Quran itself says that namaaz will keep you away from indecent activities. So I think these people just go through the motions of namaaz and don't really get the understanding of why and how to pray.

In any case, I'd rather be praying regularly instead of not praying at all. As for other sins, which all of us commit <1> we should realize we are committing sins (many times we even don't realize that), and <2> we should constantly seek forgiveness for all known and unknown sins. Ofcourse the concept of tauba (seeking forgiveness) means that we should also make an endeavour not to commit the sin. Not that we seek tauba every morning and continue with our merry way all day, and restart the next day. Although, we musty constantly seek forgiveness bcz we never know when we may die, but at the same time keep away from sinful activities as much as we can.

3

Salam,

Either you are a 100% true muslim, or ur not. In my mind moderate signals that a person follows >100% of his religion and by choice calling himself moderate. He is framing no-one but himself. Same for the extremists.

4

.

5

[quote]
Originally posted by Sarah Splendor:
**I agree with you guys.My friend's mom prays all five namazain but has a love for vodka. I'm fine with either one alone, but its hypocrtical to do both things at once. either you're a Muslim and you pray or you're not and you drink vodka. There's no middle path, it either hell or heaven.

**
[/quote]

And, either you are a fag or straight; just like its either black or white, night or day. It would be blasphemy to be anything in between. Right?

And, in Islam they Stone Fags to Death and all muslim countries do not follow this sharia'h - so, are they moderate or anti-Allah?

No, it is not all black or white; and, dusk & dawn is neither day nor night.

6

BoSS, if you would kindly reply to my post in religion forum under “is it personal?”, i would like to read what you have to say. Thanks!!!

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

Learn to love yourself, then learn to love one-another

7

Interesting debate! While I don't claim to be a thelogian or a very serious student of religion but I have read quite a bit with an open eye and mind and based on that I can say with conviction that either-you-are-or-you-aren't question is not that straight. And it's not so distinctly black and white in many areas. The real black and white thing is accepting that you believe in Allah's unity and

risalat of Prophet Muhammad (SAW) and the prophets before him both by saying it and truly believing in it in your heart and mind. Beyond that there are Haram things (4 most prominent ones, commiting of which knowingly and wilfully would kick you out the Islam's arena) halal, fisq, mubah, and so on. Bottom line is that your faith in Allah and His Rasul is the most important thing. That I must say needs committed faith not just lip service. After that there are many different ways and means within Islamic faith to be a better muslim.

In my opinion, this 100% approach is the cause of our many problems at the community, nation, and the Ummah level. When someone doesn't follow our particular line based on this 100% concept (either you are muslim or you aren't) we dub our fellow muslims as kafirs. Similarly that some one whom we have labelled as kafir shoots back at us with the same pronouncement. That's what's happening day in and day out. And we have made a mockery of our religion.
There have always been very sincere differences of opinion among muslims on many interpretations of many Divine commandments and radition of Rasul Allah. That's how 5 (4 sunnis and 1 shia) major school of Islamic jurisprudence came into being. Had it been so black and white there would have been only and only one school and all other would be out. But despite those differences, which in certain respects are quite substantial, no one in one school dubbed others as kafir. Rather they respected their opposing views and yes, at more that one occassions, some major proponents offered namaz in one's imamat or the other's.
Sorry for taking too much of your time but I wnated to make it a point that Islam, as a religion, is the most tolerant system for honest difference of opinion. History is full examples. Our current attitude is because of our ignorance about Islam and just following the moulvi's eddits who unfortunately happens to be much more ignorant about Islam than most of us.

8

some people think that if they pray, they r muslims....
being a muslim is not just about praynig five times a day or fasting the month of ramadhan....
and ask ur friend how cud he be in a condition to pray if he was watching a porn movie....
its just that the SATAN misguides people and takes them away and they think that there is no harm in doing a wrong thing like this when we do pray and do complete all the FARZ things....

i dont recall exactly but i think i have heard a hadith which says that most muslims will be in trouble on the Judgement Day cuz of the "small" sins instead of the BIG ones....

may Allah guide us all to the right path....

9

it is interesting question but I do n't see any complexity at all .
First off all I do n't agree with concept of 100% muslim or not at all .you are muslim if you believe and respect Allah and prophit Muhammad(PBUH) . After that what ever you do you will be muslim (in know this line is gonna get critised but try to get my point before ). If you do bad thing sins you will for sure be punished (ofcousre something else might get you forgiveness but normally speaking) for that but you will stay muslim .
2 things come first . Gods rights (haqoq Allah)but even before that comes Mans rights (haqooq ul ibad) . If you are fullfiling both of these then comes these other things like zinah and stuff . but ofcourse there are punishments for these .It may not be the best thing but the guy who left striptease for namaz surely has earned my admiration same goes with porn and the vodka lady .
we commit sins all the day all the time on different levels ofcourse , we listen to music but we do n't say okay I am not muslim or I am not gonna say my prayers .

as this is a pakistani I do expect most users to be muslims and I am guessing you are too Boss ..... are you ? please answer (nothing personal dude)

10

IMO people who use the term moderate muslims are either con-artists or are kidding themselves. It would be more honest to describe yourself as a non-observing muslim or semi-practising muslim. Having said that, we have to bear in mind nobody is perfect - there is no such thing as a flawless human being, so expecting religious people to be whiter-than-white is probably unfair.
From my reading of it muslim religion is not ascetic like Buddhism. Otherwise our role model would probably be Mahatma Gandhi.

11

Show me a 100% Muslim ... and I can assure you that I can find another 'Muslim' who think he is not!

I don't believe in the term moderate Muslim, mainly because I don't believe in the term extremist Muslim. Both are Oxymoron.

On a side note ... someone is a hypocrite when he believes something & acts another way totally different. In the many examples given above, the people are justifying their actions. They would be called hypocrite if he tell you not to watch porn & then go back & watch it himself.

12

We have 2 groups of People

1) There is room for moderate mulsims
2) There is no room for moderate muslims

Group 1:
Pristine: ** we should realize we are committing sins (many times we even don't realize that), and <2> we should constantly seek forgiveness for all known and unknown sins
**Faceup : No, it is not all black or white; and, dusk & dawn is neither day nor night.
Ezee: I wnated to make it a point that Islam, as a religion, is the most tolerant system for honest difference of opinion
Pro Taliban (He calls himself): I don't agree with concept of 100% muslim or not at all .you are muslim if you believe and respect Allah and prophit Muhammad(PBUH)

Group 2:
Sarah: There's no middle path, it either hell or heaven.
Amigo: Either you are a 100% true muslim, or ur not.
Armughal (Mr. Last word): Most muslims will be in trouble on the Judgement Day cuz of the "small" sins instead of the BIG ones
Xtreme: IMO people who use the term moderate muslims are either con-artists or are kidding themselves
Ahmadjee: I don't believe in the term moderate Muslim, mainly because I don't believe in the term extremist Muslim. Both are Oxymoron.

The issue is that Group Two is more sincere towards their religion and follows Islam the way it says in Quran but they are cheated as a part of muslim community when group one goes out and represents themselves as muslims. I just feel it is unfair.

Ciao
BoSS
p.s1 The groups above are strictly to prove a point - nothing more!
p.s2 Munni, I answered ur question in Religion section
p.s3 Striptease is not a porn flick.

13

Faceup,

it would be more meaningful to discuss whether Islamic Sharia and the Islamic teaching of Quran and Sunnah (=GOD) tells us to stone fags. If it does, than every muslim country should abide by this ruling. A country that doesnt do this isnt a "moderate" muslim country, on the contrary they are deviants and sinners.

14

[quote]
Originally posted by BoSS:
**
The issue is that Group Two is more sincere towards their religion and follows Islam the way it says in Quran but they are cheated as a part of muslim community when group one goes out and represents themselves as muslims. I just feel it is unfair.

**
[/quote]

Great ! Boss has decided for us and so now its all black and white

15

Either both groups are saying the same thing in different tones or there is some seriously wrong with group 2 people

as far sins go you do it yourself all the time as I said before . Now by not saying your prayers do you think that your better muslims . No thats dumb .... that really is .

No as far as the hypocracy goes you are acting like one BoSS . Here are the reasons

1) you had problem with the guy watching striptease with you because he went for his prayers . But you were watching it as well .Do you think you are better muslim ... why because you do n't do both . No , there is punishment for watching striptease , does n't matter if it's not a porn, material is still based on nudity but you also missed your prayer and that is punishable as well .
2)To distinguished the Gupies in 2 groups to make them fight and make this topic hot . Thats purely hypocracy dude .
3) you threw oil on the fire by declaring one group better than the other . you have no (moral)right to do so . You could have just said that you support this group or that group . A good host like you are of this thread probably would n't do that either . But giving a judgement like this thats bad .
Shame on you kid , grow up

16

Rahat1 anytime man! but I would recommend you to read the thread again....I could be wrong but I feel u missed the point

Pro Taliban, please be polite and next time make less assumptions about my beleifs and this thread. Thanks.

17

note to self 'WATCH STRIPTEASE'

18

BoSS Sahib,

Please add to the list another group, which believes that no one has the right to judge one's religiousness based on his everyday actions. Only God is the judge of that!

And please add my nick to that 3rd group.

Thanks!

19

Well! i already have posted my response in Munni’s thread: http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/Forum13/HTML/003918.html
which is as follows:

Walllaho Alam!
Wama Alaina Illal Balagh!

You (Muslims) are the best nation ever raised among the mankind: (because) you
advocate righteousness and FORBID EVIL, and you believe in (one) GOD (ALLAH).
(Sura: Aalay-Imran; Ayat:110)

Sitaaron Pay Jo Daltay Hain Kamand!

Shaheen=An Eagle or A Flacon!
(And yes it’s a MALE Shaheen :wink:

[This message has been edited by Shaheen (edited November 16, 2001).]

20

…and put me on the list with ahmedji and
BoSS

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

look no harsh feeling again . but yes I think it is fair enough for any to belive that you are muslim or some muslim convert other wise you should have raised this question in religious section but posting here means that you are obviously not seeking “religious guidence” as such and just want public opinion for which I would like every one else assume … and as far as politeness goes well you scractch our back we do yours if you are gonna pass on childish comments like grouping and declaring who is better and whoz not then this what you are gonna get …