Moderate Muslims

[Crescent]

Re: Moderate Muslims

Since the beginning of Islam, all Islam has done is to "Enjoin Good, and Forbid Evil."

WTH is a Moderate muslim? Muslim is a muslim. Either you believe in doing good under the divine will, or you don't. Thats it. Its that simple.

Even the HYPOCRITES in the time of the Prophet pbuh were perfect in their salahs, and their fasts.

Whats this bullcrap about "moderate" muslims.

Muslim is muslim. Islam is Islam.

It hasn't changed, it never will. Only people change, and People form ideas and opinions.

No one looks to people for guidance, they look to the Quran and Sunnah.

Thats a muslim. A normal, nothing attached MUSLIM.

Who preaches killing of Jews and Americans? Who preaches Killing of innocents?

I'll tell you who, The media, the evil themselves. Islam certainly does not.

there is no room for Innocent deaths in Islam. Infact, there is SEVERE punishments for those that harm another innocent soul.

I'm surprised we only have to speak out agains the muslims. What about the oppressors destroying the world? causing havoc?

Mujahideens are the only living warriors ont his planet. who Actually defend their land, and their women, and their rights.

Why not stop the oppressors, muslims will stop too.

Maybe people haven't read the history of Islam. The period the west called " the dark ages ".

[system]

Re: Moderate Muslims

@Fraudz

Kodiak I agree with your post 100% but do have a point to make on one aspect which I have quoted above.

Its not an issue of not believing in 1400 old year ideas, but in some cases the guidance is not there on how they apply in current day and age. This is why we have fatwas. This is why people ask questions. The answers may be what suits them or what does not suit them.

We do need guidance and ruling (i.e. interpretation) to situations and circumstances that no one asked questions about back then. The question is not about validity of the ruling, but on how it applies to certain situations.

Fraudiay, Ijtihad is an integral part of islam and is used when there are matters that are unclear. Offcourse im sure you know that. Though every tom harry and sally mullah are not fit to offer fatawah's and by and large the top respected scholars are the ones who's fatawah's should be followed and understood.

[Mr_Fraudia]

Re: Moderate Muslims

@Kodiak

Fraudiay, Ijtihad is an integral part of islam and is used when there are matters that are unclear. Offcourse im sure you know that. Though every tom harry and sally mullah are not fit to offer fatawah’s and by and large the top respected scholars are the ones who’s fatawah’s should be followed and understood.

indeed, I agree, I would rather have all kinds of ppl stop passing fatwas as well. But as far as ijtehad goes or interpretation goes, the people who are qualified to do it should be addressing issues that effect people on a daily basis.

By Islam we can not make halal what is haram, and we can not make haram what is halal. the typical kath mullah passing fatwas and statements not only does not have the religious knwowledge but also does not have the functional knowledge of the topic at hand e.g. medicne, or finance, or policy making. It has to be a joint efort leveraging people with these subject matter expertise as well as religious schoars, and in some cases ppl who have mastery of both subjects.

[PyariCgudia]

Re: Moderate Muslims

Do you see the crazy nuts on this website alone? You cannot change their minds in debate. You cannot reason with them. And if you do, they get personal and go after you haath pair, and do whatever they can to personally destroy you. As much as we should all gang up against the fanatics and teach them a lesson, it is QUITE hard to do it. And quite honestly, only a few moderate muslims even bother. The rest wish to live their life in peace.

They want to start fights, then let them get what they deserve. They make their beds. Let 'em sleep in it.

[Crescent]

Re: Moderate Muslims

^ I know eh. Tell me about it.

[PyariCgudia]

Re: Moderate Muslims

@Lajawab

Many Mod-Muslims like to drink, gamble, keep girlfriends/boyfriends e.t.c....

Is this the moderate Muslim you are talking about?

You know, here is a prime example. These "mullahs" only see things as "beard/hijab touting muslim" or "clubbing-ABCD".

I'm so sick of people who are not realistic.

[Crescent]

Re: Moderate Muslims

^

It could POSSIBLY be because the PROPHET pbuh, and ALLAH himself, have defined the Divine will as such?

A definition of a muslim, unchanged for 1400 years.

Thats more realistic to me.

[system]

Re: Moderate Muslims

@PyariCgudia

You know, here is a prime example. These "mullahs" only see things as "beard/hijab touting muslim" or "clubbing-ABCD".

I'm so sick of people who are not realistic.

Sister PyariCgudia, there is no such thing as "Moderate Islam".
If you look at the Quran and Hadeeth, you will find stories of "Moderate Muslims", you will also see what their fate was and you will see stories of those Muslims who didn't want any moderation in their beliefs.

There are stories of pious worshippers who received the wrath of Allah because they didn't forbid the evil around them.
There's the story of the People of the Cave who fled from their land because of the evil being done by their people, they didn't try to moderate anything.
There's the story of Prophet Ibrahim, who was thrown into the fire and left his people because of his beliefs and he didn't bring about any moderation in his beliefs and his actions.

When you talk about "Moderate Islam" it implies that you are trying to change Islam, now Allah says that Islam is Perfect in Surah Maidah. So how can something that is Perfect be changed. If change is really required then it can't possibly be from Allah.
If you really think about this with a clear mind, then you will come to the conclusion that Islam cannot be changed and this "Moderate Islam" is a guise to hide the true teachings of Islam.

[Stu]

Re: Moderate Muslims

If you're looking for a way to define moderate islam from radical islam, that can be done easily enough by looking at certain world events that had a polarizing effect. Here are two examples.

Event: The murder of Dutch filmmaker Theo van Gogh, maker of the film "Submission", which paints a negative picture of islam
Moderate muslims react with shame that something like this was done in the name of their religion. Radical muslims react with happiness that "he got what he deserved".

Event: The release of cartoons which depicted Mohammed negatively by a Danish newspaper
Moderate muslims see the cartoonists as mistaken, disrespectful idiots. Radical muslims believe that the cartoonists and editors deserve the same fate as van Gogh (or worse), many flew into a mindless rage that resulted in riots and deaths.

Simply put, it's all about tolerance (or lack thereof) of other religions and other people's (God given?) rights, even if they want to be an a$$hole.

Most radical muslims are uneducated, and unfamiliar with western freedoms, which gives them an excuse I suppose. Unfortunately, many self-righteous "muslims" who frequent this forum can't use this excuse even though they clearly lean to the radical side.

[Hum_Hain]

Re: Moderate Muslims

@Stu

Simply put, it's all about tolerance (or lack thereof) of other religions and other people's (God given?) rights, even if they want to be an a$$hole.

yeah, its all about tolerance of other religions and other people's (God given?) rights, even if they want to be an a$$hole

but there's a limit to everyone's/everything's tolerance and God given rights!?!?!

Cartoons: even after being warned the first time they were published; they were published again; how tolerant were those people to others' religion!? that they published them numerous times

are they radicals also?

reaction of the muslims, okay radical muslims, is that not a God given right too!?

Director of the film; how tolerant was he of others' religion? u think he had the right to make such a film?? and the person who killed him was intolerant and did not have the God given right!?!
well; the director was as intolerant as the other!!
so they're both radicals!?!?

these arguments of tolerance or intolerance do not define/divide Islam into radical or moderate!!

people opposing/or supporting the reactions of muslims in the above incidents could end up in the following situations:

some would tolerate a murder of their family member and maybe forgive;
does not mean the killer had the right to murder;

some wudnot tolerate anything against their family and hence would take action themselves against the culprits..

[Khehkeshan]

Re: Moderate Muslims

Killing people indiscriminately is not a right, nor should it ever be a right. If we go down that path, I could God forbid, kill your family because I think they insulted my religion and claim that as a right.

The path of the current jihadis will lead to anarchy and revenge rather than rule of law and sharia. There is a very good reason why jihad cannot be declared by anyone on the street, but needs an Islamic leader to do so. The jihadis, by going against this tradition since the time of the Prophet (PBUH), are going against Islam and Allah's will. They will be punished for it and so will those who support them for creating fitna.

[Hum_Hain]

Re: Moderate Muslims

lolz

maybe my post wasnt clear enough and hence confusing

and i think its better not to be direct in statements such as i could kill your family; 'ones' instead of 'your' would be more appropriate

precisely; i meant that the notion of 'tolerance' and 'God given rights' does not define being a moderate or a radical muslim!

[Afridi786]

Re: Moderate Muslims

@Khehkeshan

Killing people indiscriminately is not a right, nor should it ever be a right. If we go down that path, I could God forbid, kill your family because I think they insulted my religion and claim that as a right.

The path of the current jihadis will lead to anarchy and revenge rather than rule of law and sharia. There is a very good reason why jihad cannot be declared by anyone on the street, but needs an Islamic leader to do so. The jihadis, by going against this tradition since the time of the Prophet (PBUH), are going against Islam and Allah's will. They will be punished for it and so will those who support them for creating fitna.

but Allah swt gives us the right to fight against invaders who are taking over our lands...in this sense I support them...but kidnapping innocent people and killing them or suicide bombers that kill non-combatants is wrong and is prohibited.

[quas]

Re: Moderate Muslims

@Anwaar Qureshi

There is no such thing in Islam being a Moderate Muslim. You are either a muslim or you are not. Either Iman has entered your heart or it has not. Nothing in between.

Well said brother.. :k: You seem to be well-versed in islamic studies. mashallah

[quas]

Re: Moderate Muslims

@PyariCgudia

You know, here is a prime example. These "mullahs" only see things as "beard/hijab touting muslim" or "clubbing-ABCD".

I'm so sick of people who are not realistic.

PCG, why do you say that... beard is kinda mandatory. I have beard too.. Prophet(pbuh), had reasons 1400 years ago for this, and asked his followers to grow beard- please do not question niqaab- I am sick of Pakistani american girls questioning that. Clubs, bars, drinks, parties, movies, bf are evil things.. please abstain from them. Follow a sane path, PCG..please.

[danial]

Re: Moderate Muslims

@quas

PCG, why do you say that... beard is kinda mandatory. I have beard too.. Prophet(pbuh), had reasons 1400 years ago for this, and asked his followers to grow beard- please do not question niqaab- I am sick of Pakistani american girls questioning that. Clubs, bars, drinks, parties, movies, bf are evil things.. please abstain from them. Follow a sane path, PCG..please.

What you gonna do call her names and issue a fatwa against her.

[Afridi786]

Re: Moderate Muslims

Can I ask people in here what qualities makes a person a moderate muslim, and the qualities that just make a person muslim...lets see what the difference is.

[danial]

Re: Moderate Muslims

@Afridi786

Can I ask people in here what qualities makes a person a moderate muslim, and the qualities that just make a person muslim...lets see what the difference is.

Looking at ourself first before we go and start preaching,
Respecting everyone, doesn't matter there Religion or race,
Respecting others point of views and opinions.

[Afridi786]

Re: Moderate Muslims

That's not moderate, regular muslims are like that, however if preaching refers to dawaah or talking about islam to other muslims, than we r required to even if we only know the first kalma.

Islam doesn't change, so there is no such thing as moderate muslims.

[danial]

Re: Moderate Muslims

@Stu

If you’re looking for a way to define moderate islam from radical islam, that can be done easily enough by looking at certain world events that had a polarizing effect. Here are two examples.

Event: The murder of Dutch filmmaker Theo van Gogh, maker of the film “Submission”, which paints a negative picture of islam
Moderate muslims react with shame that something like this was done in the name of their religion. Radical muslims react with happiness that “he got what he deserved”.

Event: The release of cartoons which depicted Mohammed negatively by a Danish newspaper
Moderate muslims see the cartoonists as mistaken, disrespectful idiots. Radical muslims believe that the cartoonists and editors deserve the same fate as van Gogh (or worse), many flew into a mindless rage that resulted in riots and deaths.

Simply put, it’s all about tolerance (or lack thereof) of other religions and other people’s (God given?) rights, even if they want to be an a$$hole.

Most radical muslims are uneducated, and unfamiliar with western freedoms, which gives them an excuse I suppose. Unfortunately, many self-righteous “muslims” who frequent this forum can’t use this excuse even though they clearly lean to the radical side.

:k: