I did not want to post this in the religion forum, because I am pretty sure that people will get over-emotional there. Hence I chose General. This is also somewhat of a political and social issue as well.
I was asked yesterday by a person very interested in missionary work (aka bible thumper), whether its really true that in Pakistan, missionary Christian work is not tolerated. And by missionary Christian work, I mean Christians going around talking to people about Christianity trying to persuade people to convert.
Now, nevermind the fact that I was insulted, and still am slightly fuming at how someone could actually ask a muslim to the face if its okay they do missionary work in their muslim country. Its like saying “Hey, I think you’re uncivilized and I want to civilize your people”. Except with a smile on your face.
My question is: Would you be open to Christians doing missionary work in Pakistan (esp. in underprivileged areas), and do you think anyone has a right to physically put such a person on a plane back to wherever they came from? Or should we be tolerant and allow others to convert if they’re not happy with Islam?
That's interesting. My little missionary friend stated that her best friend went to Pakistan recently and was told not to state outright she was doing any missionary work. She was there under the guise of doing charity, but was speaking about Christianity anyway if people asked her about her cultural/relgious values. Which basically is bullcrap. She was out converting us muslim heathens.
She sees it as a part of/ and a calling of her religion. It is even very common in the United States for certain denominations to proselytize by going door to door. It doesn't have anything to do with thinking these people aren't civilized, more of spreading what they see as 'the good word', saving souls.
I know many Christians who do go overseas for stricty humanitarian/aid work. Converting may be an end result, but they go to build schools, teach farming techniques, etc.
To counter this, MMA and Jamaat must go and do some charity work(helping poor kids, homeless) in Latin America. :) Qazi Sahib(Qazi Hussein Ahmed) and Maulan Fazl-ur-Rahman have long been advocate to uplift the poor and destitutes.. it is high time they set up a camp in Bolivia, Paraguay and likes and show even Pakistaniyon da ve dil ai and we also feel for poor people of Latin America!
Any and all kinds of charity work is, ofcourse, fine and permissible in Pakistan.
But any type of preaching about any religion, except Islam, is prohibited. Reason being that it is the belief of all muslims that Islam is the final truth, so in a muslim state no one should be allowed to preach falsehood (i.e. any other older or newer religion). I am sure many here will disagree with the basic premise, but in the famous words of Oscar Wilde 'who gives a flying ****!"
How is that any diffrent than the Christians that proselytize (who also believe their religion is the final truth) but whose socieities don't prevent other religions from preaching their falsehoods? Especially when Muslims profess there to be 'no compulsion in religion'?
Is it because the religion or the state does not allow the freedom? Do you think the underlying reason is insecurity or is their 'scriptural' reasons for outlawing it?
Seminole, if it makes you feel any better, it didn't use to be that way, most of it changed in 70s and 80s.
Actually the Constitution of Pakistan written in the 50s stated: "every citizen shall have the right to profess, practice and propagate his religion" but later versions of the constitution written in the 70s started to add the phrase "subject to law, public order or morality" which basically negated the first phrase. This clause was further refined in the 80s fearing that a moral judge might interpret it a little differently.
And I am sure you must have read the famous words of Jinnah that he spoke at the eve of partition "You are free to go to your temples; you are free to go to mosques or any other place of worship in this state of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion or caste or creed; that has nothing to do with the business of the State.' Pakistanis these days believe that he really didn't mean it, you know in the sense that he was being politically correct.
again..let people preach, they think their religion is just as right as we feel our religion is right. Its hypocrisy on our parts if we say its not okay for others to preach in our country and for us to preach in their country.
Lets have some faith folks, those who can be cnvinced to convert to a diff faith either were not getting from their faith which they saw in a diff faith, or they did not understand teh faith or did not see support from others in teh same faith..in which case we should be more concerned with our failure to have them understand, and provide them support (as religin commands) than having someone else convert them because due to our failures they were ripe for a change.
someone who is not going to convert will not convert no matter how much he or she gets preached.
There is a big difference between muslims going to non-muslim countries to earn a living and then engaging in religious activities in those non-muslim states and someone going on a christian missionary trip (anywhere). The christian missionary is not going there to earn money, but with the intent purpose of converting people.
I know some muslims are involved in tableegh, but most muslims don't have preaching as their primary reason to visit a country.
PCG, its not a very big difference and there is nothing wrong with it. Actually missionary work has been a hallmark of western (Muslim & Christian) religions. If you go to the Caribbeans and ask the local Muslims who introduced them to Islam, it will most likely be a Muslim missionary, not the pious Arab traders talked about in the Pakistan's school curriculum.
Anyway, there are only a handful of states around the world where freedom of religion is institutionally banned, Pakistan being among the top of the list.
And before anyone points it out there is a difference between animosity or intolerance towards other religions verses it being unlawful by state law to practice or preach it. There are many places in Indonesia where preaching anything other than Islam can lead to death, but this intolerance is not institutionalized by being part of the law, well at least not yet.
Would a religious person of any faith consider it a higher calling to go make money in a land of non-believers or to try to help them - either with charitable work or by saving their soul? Guess it depends on one's point of view and where their priorities lie. Here, or in the hereafter.
**The second part was negated by "La Ikrahha fe Din" Islam is the first religion to state there is no compulsion in religion, it seems we Muslims of modern times completley and totally ignore that, the West picked up on this and practice what Islam preaches..:) **