Re: Misbah?
......obviously Fawad, with ODI average of '45 and lost A average of 48' is better batsman than Misbah......
Sorry, but how is Fawad better than Misbah? Their career averages and strike rates are similar. Somehow only Misbah is tuk-tuk.
Re: Misbah?
Sorry, but how is Fawad better than Misbah? Their career averages and strike rates are similar. Somehow only Misbah is tuk-tuk.
Fawad is middle order batsman, but for his first test, it was outside Pakistan and Fawad was asked to open the inning. Thus, Fawad became first Pakistani batsman in that test to make test century (176 runs) in his debut test (first test) outside Pakistan (away match), and that was under pressure when Pakistan was losing and whole team got out for less than 150 runs (Fawad scored more than 50 percent of the runs in that inning). Century was in second inning, and to make runs in second inning in test is considered as more difficult than first inning.
Still, Fawad was dropped in next test, and till now, he is given chance to play only 3 test with long intervals in between. Anyhow, his test average is 42, less than Misbah (but with 3 matches, you cannot count that). For comparison one have to use first class match average (both Fawad and Misbah play first class matches against similar bowlers and ground conditions, so whoever is better would score more, and comparison is fare).
So, let see the figures of both players and compare them (since Fawad played only 3 test matches, one have to ignore his test average, though at 42, that is not bad)
We should know that when we talk about averages (or average runs per inning), even difference of 1 run is a lot (forget 6 runs, the difference between Fawad’s and Misbah’s FC Average). Anyhow, let us compare FC average, ODI average, List A average and ODI SR to compare Fawad and Misbah. For interest only, I am including Younis figures of too.
[TABLE]
FC Ave
ODI Ave
List A Ave
SR (ODI)
Fawad
56.9
45.14
48.37
75.05
Misbah
50.95
43.22
47.49
73.49
Younis
50.64
31.31
33.32
75.29
You can see that Fawad FC average, ODI average, 'List A' average and ODI SR, all of them is better than Misbah.
I am pretty sure that if Fawad would be given extended chance to play test, his test average would also end up better than Misbah, as Fawad FC average is 6 runs better than Misbah (Fawad FC average is highest for any Pakistani ever).
Further interesting FC figures:
Fawad made 23 centuries and 45 fifties in 155 completed innings. Or:
Fawad made one century every 6.4 innings
Fawad made over fifty runs every 2.28 innings
Misbah made 41 centuries and 78 fifties in 288 completed innings. Or:
Misbah made one century every 7.03 innings
Misbah made over fifty runs every 2.42 innings
Re: Misbah?
...You can see that Fawad FC average, ODI average, 'List A' average and ODI SR, all of them is better than Misbah.
I am pretty sure that if Fawad would be given extended chance to play test, his test average would also end up better than Misbah, as Fawad FC average is 6 runs better than Misbah (Fawad FC average is highest for any Pakistani ever).
Only marginally better. I can only talk about ODIs because we don't know his capabilities at test level.
I am pretty sure also that if Fawad would be given extended chance to play, his averages would drop significantly because he has played much less than others and number of NO innings help his average a lot (which would not matter much in the long run). However, while you continuously criticize Misbah of 'tuk tuk', you fail to mention that Fawad's strike rate is not significantly different from Misbah's either.
However, being not-out often is a good sign. Hope we can polish and keep talented players like him in the team for long run.
Re: Misbah?
A balanced article on Misbah…
Blogs: Ahmer Naqvi: The vices and virtues of Misbah-ul-Haq | Cricket Blogs | ESPN Cricinfo
…The fact is that Pakistan play ODI cricket in an outdated way, and their approach begins not on the field but also in their squad and team selections, as well as their tactics. All the marvelous work that Misbah has done in carrying this side - and there is no doubt that he (almost) alone has done so - still hasn’t prevented Pakistan from becoming a lower-tier ODI side. The answer to their problems will not be found in either the vices or the virtues of Misbah.
Re: Misbah?
Only marginally better. I can only talk about ODIs because we don't know his capabilities at test level.
I am pretty sure also that if Fawad would be given extended chance to play, his averages would drop significantly because he has played much less than others and number of NO innings help his average a lot (which would not matter much in the long run). However, while you continuously criticize Misbah of 'tuk tuk', you fail to mention that Fawad's strike rate is not significantly different from Misbah's either.
However, being not-out often is a good sign. Hope we can polish and keep talented players like him in the team for long run.
Only marginally better? 1 runs make lot of difference if it is average. For instance, many batsmen played for Pakistan but only few, less than 10, have average above 40. Most present lots have average around 30. An increase of 1 runs in average means 3.3 percent, and that is a lot. For instance, the difference for team is making 300 runs or 310 tuns. If you will see averages of players, many are considered better than others just because their average was odd 1 runs better than other.
Your statement that if Fawad would be given extended chance in test, his average would drop, is illogical statement. It was possible if Fawad FC average was lower than his test average, but if FC average is higher than test average than test average increases.
If you will see batsmen performance in test, their average converges with their first class average, so how can you say that you are pretty sure that if Fawad would play extended test, his average would drop ... and would not converge with his first class average?
On the other hand, Fawad should be given extended chance no matter what, to prove himself in test. Why low performers are getting extended chance, but Fawad is not getting any chance to play test?
As for Not outs, how can you say that Fawad NOs increases his average?
It seems, tomorrow you will say that Bradman average is not 99.94 but 87.45, because he played 80 innings an not 70 (Bradman was NO 10 times, so his 6996 runs is divided by his 70 completed innings and not 80). If you will say that than most people who know cricket would only make fun of you.
[On the other hand, your statement is wrong too, as his Nos are more or less similar to other players in various format of cricket].
If you had played cricket you should know that most of the time players lose their wicket during earlier stage of their inning, and at much less score than their average, but once a player sets in (played several balls), their chances of getting out reduces, and they make more runs than their average. When players stay 'NO', most of the time it happens when they made few runs and are set in, but to get to that set position, most of the time they lose their wicket, and that is why it is believed that 'NO' usually make adverse impact on averages of batsmen, especially those batsmen who make big scores.
Unlike batsmen, 'NO' may (not necessarily, but may) help some lucky bowlers, as they normally could not face too many balls and survive.
Anyhow, if you still do not agree than ... you should only take those innings where player has made more than half the players' average (weather out or not-out) ... ignoring all outs at score below half a players average and also all NO runs if they are half the players' average.
That means, for Fawad, his average is 45. So, you should take only those innings where Fawad made over 23 runs, ignoring all runs and innings where Fawad made below 23 runs, regardless of he got out or stayed not out, and that would be fare. I am pretty sure that you will find average increasing rather than reducing.
Re: Misbah?
I am not too familiar with domestic cricket, so cannot comment on Fawad on detail but I have already said that on paper he looks good enough to play for Pakistan.
As for Not outs, how can you say that Fawad NOs increases his average? .... .
because score is counted, innings is not.
[On the other hand, your statement is wrong too, as his Nos are more or less similar to other players in various format of cricket].
Prove it. [proportion of not-outs to completed innings]
If you had played cricket you should know that most of the time players lose their wicket during earlier stage of their inning, and at much less score than their average, but once a player sets in (played several balls), their chances of getting out reduces, and they make more runs than their average. When players stay 'NO', most of the time it happens when they made few runs and are set in, but to get to that set position, most of the time they lose their wicket, and that is why it is believed that 'NO' usually make adverse impact on averages of batsmen, especially those batsmen who make big scores.
sorry, but please check how 'average' is calculated. Every not-out increases your average if you made more than 0 score in that innings.
Unlike batsmen, 'NO' may (not necessarily, but may) help some lucky bowlers, as they normally could not face too many balls and survive.
Anyhow, if you still do not agree than ... you should only take those innings where player has made more than half the players' average (weather out or not-out) ... ignoring all outs at score below half a players average and also all NO runs if they are half the players' average. .....
If you know basic statistics, you would know that if you remove 'below-average' sub-sample, the 'average' would by definition increase.
Again, reading from the stats, I would still say his ODI strike rate is only marginally better than Misbah's and all criticism for Misbah for playing too slowly would also applies to Fawad. His average is also marginally better, helped by much more proportion of his innings being not-out.
This is my reading from his stats. If you disagree, that's fine. I really don't have time to revisit Stat 101 here. I'm out.
More than Fawad's capabilities, I am appalled by the amount of criticism being thrown at Misbah who has won praise from everyone around the world except from myopic cricket followers.
Re: Misbah?
^^^ Brother, I am sorry, I think it will take you a lot to understand ‘NOs’ and I do not think you want to know. Anyhow, in cricket when we talk about players ‘average’ it means average runs per completed inning or average runs a person makes before person gets out. All runs between two 'outs' are counted as runs within one inning, regardless of team or time in between. That is how average in cricket is worked out, simple as that, and all accept that as average runs per inning, evaluate players on that basis. You like it or do not, make no difference.
As for Misbah (as well as Younis), people call them tuk-tuk players for reason, even though their strike rate is as good as many other Pakistani players. If you do not want to understand that reason, than it does not matter, people would still call them tuk-tuk players.
Well, I can put down the reason, but to accept that is up to you. Reason is that, they start their inning very slow. Their first 20 odd runs come at very low SR, consuming lot of balls (as if they are playing test cricket). After those first 20 odd runs, they make runs fast increasing their SR to 100 or so (sometime more). Hence their average SR becomes 70 to 75. That means, if they get out at low score, than team can get into trouble because they wasted balls. Anyhow, if they get set and start scoring big, than they compensate those wasted balls. Here come their averages. Average of Younis is very low (31) and it means most of the time he gets out wasting plenty of balls. Misbah average is high (43) but Misbah take longer to increase his SR, that means even if Misbah makes 30, he waste too many balls. Younis is better in this respect as Younis start increasing SR much earlier than Misbah.
Most other players start playing at their normal SR after first few balls, some even start hitting first ball they receive. So, unlike Younis or Misbah, other players keep steady SR and do not waste too many balls even if they get out at low score (lower than their average). Hence they are not called Tuk-tuk players.
Re: Misbah?
He should retire. He is an outcast in the batting lineup of pathetic batsmen.
Misbah is like that one pathetic guy who always used to do hi assignment on time and make rest of the class look @$$. He should not be in the class.
Re: Misbah?
Graeme Smith’s column about PAK vs SA game. He says
’میچ میں مصباØ* الØ*Ù‚ Ú©Ùˆ جلد آؤٹ کرنا Ûوگا‘ - BBC Urdu](’میچ میں مصباح الحق کو جلد آؤٹ کرنا ہوگا‘ - BBC News اردو)
Re: Misbah?
Apparently, he is forced to score slowly when the “batsmen” at the top go back to the pavilion quickly.