Mirza Tahir Hussain's Execution

roadrunner · November 17, 2006, 1:15pm

Re: Mirza Tahir Hussain's Execution

^^it does actually say about the 4 witnesses in the Qu'ran for your information.

Lusi · November 17, 2006, 5:34pm

Re: Mirza Tahir Hussain’s Execution

so why is the murderer of Hakeem saeed the governor of sindh?

desidudecool · November 17, 2006, 6:01pm

Re: Mirza Tahir Hussain's Execution

^because he is an ally of Musharraf..thats why musharraf lost a lot of support among his followers when he decided to make government with people like that...mqm is a terrorist organization no doubt about it...and governor of sind is a criminal who has murdered 50 people

Lusi · November 17, 2006, 6:14pm

Re: Mirza Tahir Hussain's Execution

^^ Yes, exactly...that is why I said that people who are actually committing crime are freely living their lives and are being supported by the government & ISI.

desidudecool · November 17, 2006, 6:22pm

Re: Mirza Tahir Hussain's Execution

this is pakistan what do you expect..musharraf says he has to support all these guys like ishrat ul abad and others because they have the support of the people...but i dont think he has to.of all the criminals living in pakistan probably half of them are in police,theres no way you can trust anyone here.if i was in that guys shoes i would have run away because i have the right to given the way system works here.

Afridi786 · November 17, 2006, 8:09pm

Re: Mirza Tahir Hussain's Execution

Yah for adultery not rape for your information. Don't tell us about our own religion.

desidudecool · November 17, 2006, 11:29pm

Re: Mirza Tahir Hussain's Execution

he is back.. hes 36 but looks like hes 56...god thats what stress can do to u

ehsan · November 18, 2006, 8:35am

Re: Mirza Tahir Hussain's Execution

I was shocked to see him, the guy has aged, has white hair and white beard at the age of 36.

roadrunner · November 18, 2006, 8:45am

Re: Mirza Tahir Hussain's Execution

You fail to notice the incontrovertible proof that from Africa through till Indonesia all forms of Sharia law have these sorts of "unislamic laws". If you cant see that religion either corrupts or the people in charge ignore a more balanced education then that's your problem. The requirement for 4 witnesses as a requirement from the Qu'ran is one of those things derived by scholars of Islam. Back in the 80s when Zia and the Saudis came up with the Hudood, no doubts they justified the 4 witness thing on the basis of if it's alright for adultery then why not rape..This comes down to interpretation. Now you look at the testimony of women not being equal to that of men. Where's this from..Hadith..so now what do you do..Some will insist Bukhari has to be followed, others will say, but wait it contradicts the Qu'ran. Either way what is true Shariah and what is not is open to interpretation and therefore is open to abuse by people. So why not just stick to rational laws until we get scholars that are capable of making up balanced, rational Islamic Shariat laws.

roadrunner · November 18, 2006, 8:50am

Re: Mirza Tahir Hussain's Execution

So why blame this on Musharraf? You think he wants MQM in charge of Sindh? It's not even his own party. MQM and a murderous governor rule Sindh, because the people of Karachi voted him and them into power. You want Musharraf to interfere with the democratic process?

Afridi786 · November 18, 2006, 9:06am

Re: Mirza Tahir Hussain's Execution

roadrunner:

You fail to notice the incontrovertible proof that from Africa through till Indonesia all forms of Sharia law have these sorts of "unislamic laws". If you cant see that religion either corrupts or the people in charge ignore a more balanced education then that's your problem. The requirement for 4 witnesses as a requirement from the Qu'ran is one of those things derived by scholars of Islam. Back in the 80s when Zia and the Saudis came up with the Hudood, no doubts they justified the 4 witness thing on the basis of if it's alright for adultery then why not rape..This comes down to interpretation. Now you look at the testimony of women not being equal to that of men. Where's this from..Hadith..so now what do you do..Some will insist Bukhari has to be followed, others will say, but wait it contradicts the Qu'ran. Either way what is true Shariah and what is not is open to interpretation and therefore is open to abuse by people. So why not just stick to rational laws until we get scholars that are capable of making up balanced, rational Islamic Shariat laws.

Doesn't power corrupt? And when the hudood laws, equating adultery with rape, how is that Islamic, how is that have to do with Islam, that was their thinking, i mean how can someone equate that, thats not interpretation, how do intrepret adultery as rape, one is controlled and with choice, the other is forced, and Hadith is a guide, its not set in stone, and scholars already say that some of these "islamic" laws are far from islam, i mean if you actually knew the actual laws you wouldn't be here doing what u r doing. They still don't explain why it is unislamic to change these laws, and still your four witnesses ask any normal muslim they will tell you 4 for adultery, none for rape, go back to the hadiths you will find how rape victims were treated and what happened to the rapists. And as for equality, Allah swt tells us that there is no superiority between men or women except for their deeds, now if that hadith says something contrary than it is false, didn't take much of a scholar to do that, now did it.

Khehkeshan · November 18, 2006, 9:32am

Re: Mirza Tahir Hussain’s Execution

Afridi786:

Doesn’t power corrupt? And when the hudood laws, equating adultery with rape, how is that Islamic, how is that have to do with Islam, that was their thinking, i mean how can someone equate that, thats not interpretation, how do intrepret adultery as rape, one is controlled and with choice, the other is forced, and Hadith is a guide, its not set in stone, and scholars already say that some of these “islamic” laws are far from islam, i mean if you actually knew the actual laws you wouldn’t be here doing what u r doing. They still don’t explain why it is unislamic to change these laws, and still your four witnesses ask any normal muslim they will tell you 4 for adultery, none for rape, go back to the hadiths you will find how rape victims were treated and what happened to the rapists. And as for equality, Allah swt tells us that there is no superiority between men or women except for their deeds, now if that hadith says something contrary than it is false, didn’t take much of a scholar to do that, now did it.

And that’s the problem isn’t it? Anytime one uses religion and faith to justify some stupid law, rationality goes out the window. The mullahs don’t have to explain themselves precisely because they can declare anyone a kafir for opposing “Allah’s” law. Just look that them right now, opposing this amendment. Why are they so openly going against Islam if its so simple? And unfortunately, many people support mullah views in Pakistan.

Secularism is the only answer, as it removes the irrationality of faith based law. The only barometer then becomes commonsense and logic. And mullahs will always lose in any such contest.

roadrunner · November 18, 2006, 9:49am

Re: Mirza Tahir Hussain's Execution

Afridi786:

Doesn't power corrupt? And when the hudood laws, equating adultery with rape, how is that Islamic, how is that have to do with Islam, that was their thinking, i mean how can someone equate that, thats not interpretation, how do intrepret adultery as rape, one is controlled and with choice, the other is forced, and Hadith is a guide, its not set in stone, and scholars already say that some of these "islamic" laws are far from islam, i mean if you actually knew the actual laws you wouldn't be here doing what u r doing. They still don't explain why it is unislamic to change these laws, and still your four witnesses ask any normal muslim they will tell you 4 for adultery, none for rape, go back to the hadiths you will find how rape victims were treated and what happened to the rapists. And as for equality, Allah swt tells us that there is no superiority between men or women except for their deeds, now if that hadith says something contrary than it is false, didn't take much of a scholar to do that, now did it.

You're missing the point completely. These Shariat laws are open to interpretation. Even the 4 witness thing some Mullah can turn around and say that it's mentioned that adultery evidence is 4 witnesses, and since adultery and rape are both Hadd punishments, they both need the same standards of evidence. This isnt rational, but it is one extreme interpretation.

You go up and ask Muslims and some will say that Bukhari Hadith is correct, some will say it contradicts the Qu'ran, others will say it does not. That is how these laws get interpreted the way they do. Rationality is out the window. That is how the Hudood was derived and virtually all other Shariat law. What some people see as normal, Mullah X does not. The basis of laws has to have an element of rationality in them.

Afridi786 · November 18, 2006, 10:05am

Re: Mirza Tahir Hussain's Execution

I'd just wish that they consulted actual scholars when implenting Sharia laws...it gives a bad image to our country as well as Islam.

desidudecool · November 18, 2006, 11:53am

Re: Mirza Tahir Hussain's Execution

^he already interfered with the democratic process when he ousted Nawaz Sharif and declared himself president.People voted for Sharif too so if Musharraf can have a problem with Sharif because he was incompetant and corrupt then he should have a problem with Mqm Governor and a lot of other corrupt muslim league and ppp politicians too who are not now part of his government.I think he is being a hypocrite by supporting people like that.

Orpheus · November 18, 2006, 12:00pm

Re: Mirza Tahir Hussain’s Execution

yeah…here’s him yesterday night at heathrow airport.

roadrunner · November 18, 2006, 12:24pm

Re: Mirza Tahir Hussain's Execution

he's not supporting them..this is what you cannot grasp..the principle of democracy..Musharraf cannot interfere with what the people vote for. As for Nawaz Sharif that was a different matter. He was the ruler of the country, so had noone to answer to. The Sindh governor is answerable to Musharraf, so does not have all out power whilst Nawaz Sharif did. It was a matter of priority to remove him..The governor will do as he's told though.

TheRealDeal · November 18, 2006, 2:12pm

Re: Mirza Tahir Hussain's Execution

very skewed view you have.

Everyone knows the last elections, and Mush's own 'referendum' was rigged, by him and his agencies.

Without the 'support' of the agencies PML-Q would be nowhere. PPP would be in Sindh govt, and PML-N would also have a strong showing in Punjab.