Re: Mirza hits out at nationalists
status of karachi was like present day islamabad.
Re: Mirza hits out at nationalists
I dont think that I ever denied that.
You did.
I think your grammar is much better than mine. Please read my statements again. i agreed to " Karachi** is** very much a part of Sindh". My statement was "Really? Karachi was part of sindh??? hmmm".
you are talking about present and I was agreeing, I was talking about the history.
Re: Mirza hits out at nationalists
Plz read my post no. 31 for Baloch-Sindhi integration.
Here are some media personalities carrying Baloch titles, but ppl always recognize them as Sindhis.
(1) Noor Muhammad Lashari
(2) Fareed nawaz Baloch
(3) Sanam Baloch
(4) Fareed Nawaz Baloch
(5) Gulab Chandio
Asif Zardari also belong to Baloch clan. Zardaris like other Baloch tribes has mixed up with ppl of Sindh in a way that no outsider can distinguish between them. Yes Sindhis owe a lot to Balochs and baloch never denied Sindhis existance at all, but they have proved them real lovers of Sindh time and again.
Re: Mirza hits out at nationalists
First of all, you are actually further validating my point that I am trying to make.
2nd of all, please decide only one aspect and we can argue as when you dont have answer from one perspective, you jump guns.
- Heritage: (Original settlers of the land vs current settlers)
- Rulers: (throughout history)
- Political boundaries: (both modern and ancient history)
- Developers: (those who formed the land to its current present form).
Pick any one so you and I can argue if Sindhis can claim a universal/all-times right on Karachi or not
Re: Mirza hits out at nationalists
I think your grammar is much better than mine. Please read my statements again. i agreed to " Karachi** is** very much a part of Sindh". My statement was "Really? Karachi was part of sindh??? hmmm".
you are talking about present and I was agreeing, I was talking about the history.
I thought you might say that, but assumed that you probably meant that Karachi was and is part of Sindh. Anyways, there I disagree with you because it was clearly a part of Sindh during the British Raj (what happened before is irrelevant because Karachi wasn't even important before that).
Re: Mirza hits out at nationalists
If you say Karachi was federal territory in 1947? It was made so only in May 22, 1948 and that was also against the wishes of Sindhi leaders who got passed Pakistan resolution first time from Sindh Assembly. Sindhis were even not provided agreed compensation for leaving government offices and assets to federal govt to develop their new capital in Hyderabad.
Re: Mirza hits out at nationalists
j (what happened before is irrelevant because Karachi wasn't even important before that).
then to me, what happened before 1985 is irrelevant. Lets all pick the part of history that solidifies our personal pov's. WHo cares about what happened before that.
Re: Mirza hits out at nationalists
Plz read my post no. 31 for Baloch-Sindhi integration.
.
Hahaha .. baloch sindhi bhai bhai, kis mahajir ne aag lgaa'ee.,
I yet to see a sindh minister standing up for the rights of Balochs. Please keep this twisted mambo jambo to yourself. Real baloch wont give a crap to this so called integration.
so much for .. oh we Sindhi love baloch people so much
[QUOTE]
In January 1973, Bhutto ordered and authorized the military operations led by Pakistan Armed Forces to suppress a rising insurgency in the province of Balochistan and dismissed the governments in Balochistan
[/QUOTE]
Re: Mirza hits out at nationalists
First of all, you are actually further validating my point that I am trying to make.
2nd of all, please decide only one aspect and we can argue as when you dont have answer from one perspective, you jump guns.
- Heritage: (Original settlers of the land vs current settlers)
- Rulers: (throughout history)
- Political boundaries: (both modern and ancient history)
- Developers: (those who formed the land to its current present form).
Pick any one so you and I can argue if Sindhis can claim a universal/all-times right on Karachi or not
I can argue with any point you like, but first tell me what is your actual problem with Sindhis that you even don't bother to consider that many migrants also settled in Hyderabad, Nawabshah, Mirpurkhas, etc, (which are still part and parcel of Sindh todate) and that could only be possible with the consent of Sindhis living there.
Re: Mirza hits out at nationalists
I can argue with any point you like, but first tell me what is your actual problem with Sindhis that you even don't bother to consider that many migrants also settled in Hyderabad, Nawabshah, Mirpurkhas, etc, (which are still part and parcel of Sindh todate) and that could only be possible with the consent of Sindhis living there.
My problem is this that Sindhi leaders (and not all say or do that) should stop expecting or demanding from urdu speaking to be grateful and thankful to them for letting them stay in sindh. karachi pe jitna haq sindhiyon ka hai, utna hee urdu speaking logon ka bhee hai. Treat urdu speaking as pakistanis and not as bin bulaa'ye mehman.
Now before you start naming political parties, I am talking about urdu speaking people here, not MQM.
Re: Mirza hits out at nationalists
its you not him. thanks
Can you substantiate your misquote? The post is aimed at him. Let him respond. Please don't play secretary here to the director?:)
Re: Mirza hits out at nationalists
Hahaha .. baloch sindhi bhai bhai, kis mahajir ne aag lgaa'ee.,
I yet to see a sindh minister standing up for the rights of Balochs. Please keep this twisted mambo jambo to yourself. Real baloch wont give a crap to this so called integration.
so much for .. oh we Sindhi love baloch people so much
I don't support Bhuttos action at all. He did made many decisions even against ppl of Sindh. but it is your very own Musharraf's action, who is responsible for current violence in Balochistan. Balochistan was not a no-go area until Akbar Bugti was killed during Musharraf regime. BTW, what was the reaction of MQM on this incident? Did they quit government?
Re: Mirza hits out at nationalists
My problem is this that Sindhi leaders (and not all say or do that) should stop expecting or demanding from urdu speaking to be grateful and thankful to them for letting them stay in sindh. karachi pe jitna haq sindhiyon ka hai, utna hee urdu speaking logon ka bhee hai. Treat urdu speaking as pakistanis and not as bin bulaa'ye mehman.
Now before you start naming political parties, I am talking about urdu speaking people here, not MQM.
Agreed to the bold part. Sindhis had accepted that right as early as 1947. Its now other party's turn to accept that.
Re: Mirza hits out at nationalists
Sindhis had accepted that right as early as 1947. .
Really? Ever heard of the Quota system? Ever heard of Sindh rural and sindh urban classification and only 2% seats for people from sindh urban in civil services?Ever wondered why we dont have Punjab rurual and Punjab urban, or that classification in any other province?
Please if you never lived in Karachi as a urdu speaking person, dont try to imply that Karachi people are the only bunch of ungrateful *******s while everyone else in Pakistan is a peace loving, open hearted muhib-e-watan
Re: Mirza hits out at nationalists
Really? Ever heard of the Quota system? Ever heard of Sindh rural and sindh urban classification and only 2% seats for people from sindh urban in civil services?Ever wondered why we dont have Punjab rurual and Punjab urban, or that classification in any other province?
Please if you never lived in Karachi as a urdu speaking person, dont try to imply that Karachi people are the only bunch of ungrateful *******s while everyone else in Pakistan is a peace loving, open hearted muhib-e-watan
And who introduced that quota system and who were the first beneficiaries of that system and what that quota system has provided to Sindhis. Did it end the suffering and hardships of Sindhis. Do all the Sindhi families earn enough to support their families due to this quota system? What role that quota system has played in alleviating poverty in rural Sindh?
BTW, there are many urdu speaking ppl, who accept role of Sindhis in making Pakistan and accommodating migrants, be it Faisal Raza Abidi, Sharmila Farooqui, Khwaja Moin u din (the man behind Mirza Ghalib Bunder Road per and Taleem e Balighan) and we common Sindhis don't have any issue accepting contribution of Urdu speaking community to Pakistan in general and Sindh (including Karachi) in particular. The point is when someone tries to disagree with the sacrifices /contributions of your forefathers, it only creates hatred and nothing else.
Re: Mirza hits out at nationalists
And who introduced that quota system and who were the first beneficiaries of that system and what that quota system has provided to Sindhis. Did it end the suffering and hardships of Sindhis. Do all the Sindhi families earn enough to support their families due to this quota system? What role that quota system has played in alleviating poverty in rural Sindh?
BTW, there are many urdu speaking ppl, who accept role of Sindhis in making Pakistan and accommodating migrants, be it Faisal Raza Abidi, Sharmila Farooqui, Khwaja Moin u din (the man behind Mirza Ghalib Bunder Road per and Taleem e Balighan) and we Sindhis don't we any issue accepting contribution of Urdu speaking community to Pakistan in general and Sindh (including Karachi) in particular. The point is when someone tries to disagree with the sacrifices /contributions of your forefathers, it only creates hatred and nothing else.
Was it Urdu speaking who introduced it? As far as I know, no Urdu speaking got benefit from that system. It was introduced to side lined the urdu speaking community.
no one is denying anyone's role in partition. You are again twisting the debate.
Re: Mirza hits out at nationalists
bz As far as I know, no Urdu speaking got benefit from that system. It was introduced to side lined the urdu speaking community.
no one is denying anyone's role in partition. You are again twisting the debate.
Quota system was introduced by Liaquat Ali Khan and first beneficiaries were migrants.
If you accept Sindhs role in making and establishing Pakistan, I'll be the last person to feel need for any argument with you.
Re: Mirza hits out at nationalists
Quota system was introduced by Liaquat Ali Khan** and first beneficiaries were migrants.**
If you accept Sindhs role in making and establishing Pakistan, I'll be the last person to feel need for any argument with you.
could you substantiate the underlined?
What do you mean by accept sindhi role. It would be foolish to think that it was only the immigrants who created Pakistan. Sindh assembly was in fact the first assembly of united India who favored the creation of Pakistan. Everyone knows the role of GM Sayed (irrespective of his change of mind later on, but he had his reasons) in the creation of Pakistan.
Re: Mirza hits out at nationalists
For the time being, just posting material available on internet. Will provide additional material soon.
](The early days of Pakistan | Indus Asia Online Journal (Click here to go to home page))http://www.allbusiness.com/international-relations/national-security/15916279-1.html](The early days of Pakistan | Indus Asia Online Journal (Click here to go to home page))
http://www.pkhope.com/making-of-mohajir-political-entity-and-city-of-karachi/
Re: Mirza hits out at nationalists
Bhai sb - come up with some solid references and bibliography …
Your first link says ‘’ It was not Mr. Z. A. Bhutto who had introduced the quota system. It was Liaquat Ali who had initiated the system in the early days of Pakistan to facilitate Mohajirs and create his own constituency in Sindh. Mr. Bhutto only created balance in it. …My grandfather told me that Liaquat’s quota system was devised in such a way that 0% (yes, zero) jobs were allocated for indigenous Sindhis for the number of years and the whole bureaucracy was brought in from UP and CP’’
LoL @ he heard it from his grand dad … Please please give me a break mate …