Mirza Ghulam Ahmad

While doing some research for another thread I found shocking that this man claimed to be a prophet, but to my disgust I found something even more shocking.

He wanted to marry a young girl but her father was reluctant, so he asked the parents of his daughter in law to help him as they were related to the girl he wanted to marry. He threatened them with divorce of their daughter if his marriage proposal was not accepted, saying that he would force his son to divorce their daughter and if his son did not agree then he will not leave anything to his son in his will and will disown him. He did eventually get his daughter in law divorced because his marriage proposal was not accepted.

How can someone fall that low? Especially someone that claims to be a promised messiah?

Furthermore after the young girls marriage elsewhere he kept writing in the papers that she would become a widow and marry him, even though his early prophecy of marriage to the girl had not come true.

Re: Mirza Ghulam Ahmad

now how do we know that the information you found was not at all made-up by those who despise the Ahamadi's for wanting to be included in the larger Islamic umbrella? Do you know for a fact that this information is the absolute truth?

Re: Mirza Ghulam Ahmad

Go any anti Ahmdi web site you find more jokes there!

Re: Mirza Ghulam Ahmad

Why are you defending him? I can get references to you for the exact dates of publications in which Mirza used to claim this. Along with tonnes of prophecies that were all false.

Re: Mirza Ghulam Ahmad

I knew you will do something of that sort. Anyways, fine if you want to get answer to this allegation, we need to agree on some points regarding our discussion:

1) Topic is the issue of muhammadi begum. so lets just dedicate this thread to this issue.

2) Discussion will be confined to the topic alone. I have seen many a times whenever any issue regarding Ahmadiat is discussed from religious point of view or from political point of view, rescue brigade comes in to throw barrage of extraneous stuff not at all relevant to the topic. The attempt is obviously meant to distract the audience and over-shadow point of discussion. So such attempts will be avoided.

3) This is a discussion forum so if you want to talk, you should show some respect to others. So abusing and insulting words and remarks will be avoided. In such discussion, even words like impostor should be avoided.

If you agree then we can go ahead.

Re: Mirza Ghulam Ahmad

In order to discuss matters it is necessary to not only confine ourselves to Muhammadi Begum. It is more important to understand the character of Mirza, and we should discuss all things that lead us to a better understanding of his character. As far as calling him imposter, fake or fraud is concerned, if we can justify such claims through evidence then there is no problem in stating his character based on facts.

Re: Mirza Ghulam Ahmad

Instead of presenting any evidence or disputing any evidence the followers of Mirza just like to confuse people through vague statements. Fortunately for us, his life is pretty well documented.

Re: Mirza Ghulam Ahmad

Letter by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad to his daughter in laws father.

On 2nd May 1891 Mirza Ghulam wrote to his brother in law, Mirza Sher Ali Baig:

“My Affectionate Mirza Sher Ali Sahib. Assalamo alaikum wa rehmatullah. God knows very well that I had never treated you as separate and I consider you a nice mannered, good natured person and steadfast on Islam. But now what I am going to tell you, it will hurt you a lot. For the sake of God I want to break my relations with them who consider me who think of me as small and do not care about religion. You know that regarding Mirza Ahmad Baig's daughter, how much my hostility is there with them. Now I have heard that on the 2nd or 3rd of Eid that girl is going to get married and people of your household are included in these discussions. You understand that the participants of this marriage are my stiff enemies, rather they are enemies of Islam. They want Christians to ridicule, and please the Hindus and do not care about the Religion of Allah and His Rasool. And they have firmly decided about me that I should be disgraced and blackened my face. They are about to use the sword from their side. NOW IT IS GOD's WORK TO SAVE ME. IF I AM FROM HIM, HE WILL DEFINITELY SAVE ME. If the people of your household had joined together and tried to persuade your brother, why should he not have given his consent? Do I belong to a low caste so that it would be a shame to marry the girl to me? On the other hand he kept on seconding my propsal, but quite recently I have been left at the mercy of his bother and now all have united on the question of the girl’s marriage. What do I have to do with a girl? She might be married to anyone. This was merely a test, those whom I considered to be my own and from whose daughter I wanted to have offsprings and my heirs are now thirsty of my blood. They are now after my honour and want me to be put to shame and to have a blackened face. It is up to God to dishonour whomsoever He wills. But so far as these people are concerned, they indeed want to hurl me into the fire. . . . . . Since I am such a low-caste then there is no reason to keep relation with my son. Therefore I have written to them that if you do not abstain from your intention (of marriage of Mohammadi with someone else) and will not stop your brother with this marriage, then as you want, my son Fazal Ahmad will also not be able keep your daughter in his wedlock. Instead as on the one end Mohammadi's marriage with someone else is taking place on the other end Fazal Ahmad will divorce your daughter. If he does not divorce her, then I will disinherit him. But if you fight with Ahmad Baig for me and stop him from his intention, then I am yours with my heart and soul, and Fazal Ahmad, who is now in my control, I will correct him in every respect and will try to organise everything for your daughter and my wealth will be their wealth. Thus I am writing to you as well that take advantage of this opportunity, and write a strongest letter to Ahmad Baig that he should stop and instruct your household that they should fight their brother to stop him, otherwise I SWEAR UPON GOD, I WILL BREAK ALL THESE RELATIONSHIPS FOREVER. If Fazal Ahmad wants to become my son and inheritor then he will keep your daughter in his house when your wife's happiness is proven; otherwise as soon as I go, all relations are broken...
From: Khaksar Ghulam Ahmad, Ludhiana, Iqbal Gunj dated May 2, 1891.”
(Kalma-e-Fazl-e-Rehmani by Qazi Fazal Ahmad, collection of letters of Mirza Ghulam to the relatives of Mohammadi Begum. cited in Qadiani Madhhab and Raees-e-Qadian)

**Reply by daughter-in-law's father to Mirza Ghulam Ahmad

**"My brother Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. Assalamo alaikum. I recieved your letter. It is your kindness that you consider me nice-natured and pious. But I do not accept your concocted prophethood and pray to Allah that may He keeps me on the way of pious ancestors and give death on it... What can I do about Ahmad Baig. He is a simple muslim. Whatever has happened, is because of you. Had you not spoiled your faith and started claiming to recieve inspirations, had you not threatened with death, nor would he have refrained from you. This is true that you proposed as a relative, but think yourself that if in your place is Ahmad Baig and you are in his place, then say by God, what things would you consider before accepting the proposal? If Ahmad Baig had asked for this marriage and he had been a collection of sickness, over 50 years of age and on top of that he had surpassed even Musailma Kazzab (Musailma Kazzab was a false claimant of prophethood) in his claims, then would you have given the hand of your daughter? You should not have gone out of control while writing the letter. There are girls in every house and the system of the world progresses in such manner. There is no harm if you get her a divorce, this will be a new tradition of prophethood and you will have to accept the blackness of ignomony on your face. As far as the bread is concerned, God will provide it from somewhere, if not fresh, dried will do, but that dried is better which is earned by ones efforts.
I am writing to Brother Ahmad Baig, and I am also sending your letter alongwith. But I cannot do anything in his presence and what right does my wife has to ask for her brother's daughter the proposal of an eternally sick man whose mental illness has progressed to divinity .... yes if he accepts himself, then me and my wife will not object. You write to him personally, but your pen has become used to writing harsh and strong words. As much as it is possible, refrain from such writings and try to beg and request.
Khaksaar, Ali Sher Baig, Qadian dated 4th May 1891"
(Nawishta-e-Ghaib by Khalid Wazirabadi pp.126-128, cited in Qadiani Mazhab by Prof Burni p.463)

Re: Mirza Ghulam Ahmad

This post of yours depicts your character pretty clearly. You want to settle scores since you were totally clueless in PA thread and keep bringing totally irrelevant material. I can very well understand the sources i.e., irshad and hafeez. These guys have been amply responded to in two books i.e.,

  1. Three in one by Naeem Osman Memon (English)
    Please refer to chapter 12 (fulfillment of prophecies) that contains commentary on this issue

  2. Shaitan key Chelay by Hadi Ali Chaudhary (urdu)
    p-191 onwards

Both of these books are available on IslamAhmadiyya - Ahmadiyya Muslim Community - Al Islam Online - Official Website

If you are truth seeker (that doesn’t seem so) then go ahead and read up the quoted material.

Re: Mirza Ghulam Ahmad

If you want to mention anything from these books as part of your argument then you are free to do so.

However you have not denied that he wanted to marry Mohammadi Begum, and that he tried to use all tools at his disposal i.e intimidation, money, power to get his proposal accepted. That he did divorce one wife, disowned one son and got his daughter-in-law divorced when he did not get his way. This indicates that Mirza was not a good human being let alone be a prophet. Even some of his family members were embarrassed by his hallucinations of being the promised messiah and thought that he was a madman.

Re: Mirza Ghulam Ahmad

Could you please link the books?

The first book seems to have only 7 chapters and I cannot locate the second one. Thx.

For the Ahmedi brothers here: Please let me know if you consider text of letters in post #8 correct.

Re: Mirza Ghulam Ahmad

God’s Messenger The Promised Messiah and Mahdi,
Hadrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian
Lecture before a grand gathering at Sialkot
on 2nd November, 1904

All Prophets as are in agreement that the Promised Messiah
would be born at the end of the sixth millennium and
make his appearance at the turn of the seventh, for he
would be the last to come, as Adam was the first.

As there is a resemblance between the first and the
last, God created the Promised Messiah in the likeness
of Adam. Adam was born a twin on a Friday, and I—
the Promised Messiah—was also born a twin on a Friday.
My birth was preceded by the birth of a twin
sister. Such a birth points to the consummation of
Wilayat [Sainthood].

It is the unanimous teaching of all Prophets as that the
Promised Messiah would appear at the turn of the seventh
millennium. This is why the Christian world has
recently been so agitated about this subject, and a
number of tracts were published in America asking
why the Promised Messiah, who was to have appeared
in this age, had not yet done so. Some had replied despairingly
that since it is already too late, people
should consider the Church to be his substitute.

The fact that I have appeared in the millennium
specified by the Prophets as is a testimony to my truth.
Had there been no other proof, this alone would have
sufficed for a true seeker after truth, and its rejection
would imply the rejection of all Divine scriptures. This
argument is as clear as day for those who know the
Divine Books and ponder over them. Rejecting this
argument amounts to rejecting all Prophethood,
confounding all calculations, and disturbing the Divine
scheme of things.

Re: Mirza Ghulam Ahmad

  1. http://www.alislam.org/books/3in1/Chapter-12.pdf Starts at pg 6 of pdf/281 in book
  2. bottom of pg 217 (pdf) and 191 in book http://www.alislam.org/urdu/reply/Shaitan-ke-Chailay.pdf

Re: Mirza Ghulam Ahmad

[note] I have moved the thread back for the time being, will keep it under observation[/note]

Re: Mirza Ghulam Ahmad

If nobody disputes that:

1) Mirza Ghulam wanted to marry Mohammadi Begum
2) That he used intimidation, with threats of divorce, claims in the media, claims made in public that she would become his wife and threat of Mohammadi Begum becoming a widow to force her family to accept his proposal.
3) He used bribery or offer of favours to her family members to get his proposal of marriage accepted.
4) Marriage to mohammadi begum was a part of his prophecy.
5) He threatened to disown his son and not to leave him with any inheritance if he failed to divorce his wife.
6) He threatened to cut links with his family members that were in support of her marriage elsewhere.
7) He did carry out his threat when she did marry someone else. He got his daughter-in-law divorced, divorced one of his 2 wives and also disowned one son.
8) Some of his family members were embarrassed by his claims of prophethood and thought that he was mentally ill.
9) Even after her marriage he still kept saying that she will become a widow and still marry him, his prophecy again did not come true.
10) He claimed to be the last prophet.
11) His son who became a leader of the movement had claimed that anybody that does not accept Mirza as a prophet and joins their fold is a Kafir and a non-muslim.

If nobody challenges these claims and accepts them as facts then it is pointless to continue with this thread and I request the moderator to close it.

Re: Mirza Ghulam Ahmad

I am not in a position to verify the veracity of these letters since the reference quoted is an anti-ahmadi book. My question where did mr. burni get these letters. kindly quote the original source.

Re: Mirza Ghulam Ahmad

^ Prof. Barni got it from Khalid Wazirabadi

The actual question is where did Khalid Wazirabadi get the material from?

Re: Mirza Ghulam Ahmad

I quoted the reference from where you can see what was actually going on. I am sure you have ignored those published replies. This prophecy was fulfilled and as a result, many from the family of Muhammadi begum became ahmadi. Their audacity in showing arrogance in the face a man of God was subdued. Actually, after the death of Muhammadi begum's father as per prophecy, the husband of Muhammadi begum was constantly irked by molvis to publicly denounce mirza sahib (as) but he held back. You should view this in totality rather than picking some part and leaving the rest. Start from the very beginning as how this all began.

[quote]

8) Some of his family members were embarrassed by his claims of prophethood and thought that he was mentally ill.

[/quote]

So what is the problem with this. Is Quran not a witness to this fact that prophets and messengers were mocked at, were called insane and sometimes magicians. Should I name the messengers whose family didn't believe in him. even wife and son. Will you doubt the veracity of those as well. He was sent as Mahdi and Messiah and as foretold the holy prophet (pbuh), the messiah will be the prophet but an ummati prophet.

[quote]

10) He claimed to be the last prophet.

[/quote]

No. You guys also consider Isa(as) as the last prophet that the world will see. Don't you?

[quote]

11) His son who became a leader of the movement had claimed that anybody that does not accept Mirza as a prophet and joins their fold is a Kafir and a non-muslim.

[/quote]

What is your stance on those people who will not believe in Mahdi and Isa (as)?

Re: Mirza Ghulam Ahmad

The reference quoted is Qadiani Madhhab - a biography of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad by Professor Ilyas Burni and Raees-e-Qadian - a biography of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad by Maulana Rafiq Dilawari. However as an ahmadi do you believe these letters to be true or can you present any contrary evidence to suggest otherwise?

Re: Mirza Ghulam Ahmad

Since you have raised an issue of authenticity of the letters the below is a further proof that letters were written. This was a statement made in court by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, and it should not be difficult to rubbish it if it were not true. The original source also seems to be Qadiani.

"The prophecy regarding the daughter of Ahmad Baig, which is mentioned in the advertisement, it is a well known matter, she is the neice of Mirza Imamuddin, the letter to Mirza Ahmad Baig quoted in Kalima Fazl-e-Rehmani is mine, and this is true that that woman has not been married to me, but she will be definitely married to me, as mentioned in prophecy. She got married to Sultan Mohammad as mentioned in the prophecy. I am telling you the truth in this court, where I have been ridiculed about things which are not from me from God. A time is coming when all heads will hang in shame .... woman is still alive, she will assuredly come into my wedlock. What hope! I have firm belief. These are things of God, cannot be cancelled, it will happen." (Statement of Mirza in Gurdaspur Court in Manzoor-e-Ilahi p.244-245 by Manzoor Ilahi Sahib Qadiani Lahori cited in Qadiani Mazhab p.473)