To all my Ahmadi Borthers and Sisters: Don't waste ur precious Time with this thread. Topics and the subsequent direction of them have been repeated upteen times and will do it in future.
If those who call u a liar don't tire while doing so it's ur duty to pray for them as it's ur destiny.
All the questions/accusations etc. etc. have been raised many a times and will be done so in future too.
Just let them wait for the Imam Mahdi/Isa AS/Jesus or whatever their belief is. Whoever is on the right Path will be decided by the one and only Almighty Lord Allah SWT.
^ exactly. I learned a long time ago that about 99% of the accusers are not here to learn or clarify stuff, rather they want to point out how wrong ahmadis are. I guess it makes them feel good about themselves. They have a gazillian accusations and if they are shown that one of their accusations is wrong then they'll go "wot about this then, or wot about that writing" without acknowleding that their earlier attack was misplaced. Those who are absolutely convinced that we are wrong can have their way. It makes not an iota of difference to me whether someone thinks i'm going to hell. Thankfully its not humans (especially contemporary muslims) who decide who goes to hell or heaven. I'm sure if it was up to the learned "ulema" these days, there wouldn't be a living soul in this world that would have a chance of going to heaven. One "scholor" or another would have a shortcut to hell drawn out for everyone, be it a muslim or not.
After you have read a few books of Promised Messiah (as) please come back to me and tell me if there was anything contrary to Islam in them. Until then, your allegations are just borrowed material from anti-ahmadi sites and of no help to you.
After you have read a few books of Promised Messiah (as) please come back to me and tell me if there was anything contrary to Islam in them. Until then, your allegations are just borrowed material from anti-ahmadi sites and of no help to you.
So far i have not visited any of anti-ahmadi sites to get material(s). the one posted above was just tip of the ice berg, i een have not started to talk about the "shariah" of Ahmadis, and was revolving around the moral values of Mr. Mirza, and u quited... thats sad...
Anyway, Ahmadies have removed their books from the public book stalls and i dont really like to read from net.. so can u recommend and place in Lahore where i ca find the books of Mr. Mirza??? ( not Lahories)
In one of the forums when we started to Audit, Mr. Mirza and his preachings, teachings they gave me same reply which u have quoted above and never returned... i wonder if u were there as well or somebody form there has adviced u to not to get involve otherwise many (ugly) things are going to be revealed.
Any way u contribute or not, i'll continue.. i may prove them non-muslims ( as non-muslims they can believe what ever they want to) and believe me no hard work is required, the debates in National Assembly back in 70s is enough to do so. but here we will do it, in relatively easy language just say laymans language. :)
A common man might not be aware of the fact that Mr. Mirza's life has two phases, in 1st phase he is humble and devoted to religion of Islam, but once he got the attention he gradually declared himself as a Prophet.
let have a brief about his belives and saying in the First Phase:
In Rohani Khazayin he says:
" mera koy deen baj'z Islam kay nahi aur maiN koy kitab baj'z Quran kay nahi rakhta aur mera koy Paighamber baj'z Mohammad (SAAW) kay nahi ju Khatim-ul-Nabiyan hay. jis per Khuda key bay-shumaar rahmataiN aur barkataiN nazil haiN aur uss kay dushmanooN per lanat bhaiji hay. gawah raho kay maiN ta'ma'sak Quran shareef hay aur Rasool (SAAW) key hadees ju kay chashma-e-haq.o.mar'fat hay, maiN pay'ra'v kerta hooN aur tamaam batooN ko qabool kerta hooN ju keh iss khair.ul.q'roon maiN ba'ijma'a-e-Sahaba (RZA) sahi qaraar payee haiN. Na inn maiN zyadati karooN ga aur na in maiN koy kami, aur issi aitqaad ( believe) per zinda rahooN ga aur issi per mera khatma aur anjaam hoga aur ju shakhs z'rah bher bhi shariyat-e-Mohammadiya maiN kami baishi karay, ya kisi ijma'i aqeeday say inkaar karay, uss per Khuda, farishtooN aur tamaam insanooN key lanat ho"
here i would like to thank one the poster for providing me the wording of one of the declaring from Mr. Mirza: have a look at it:
Mr. Mirza Says:
" MiaN un tamaam amoor ka qayel hooN ju Islami aqayed main dakhil haiN aur jaisa kay Ahl-e-Sunnat-wal-Jamaat ka aqeeda hay. Unn sab batooN ko manta hooN, Ju Quran aur hadees key roo say Muslim-ul-saboot haiN aur Syedna Mohammad (SAAW) khatm.ul.mursaleen kay baad kisi bhi dosray mad'aee nabowaat aur risalat ko Kazib aur Kafir janta hooN. Mera yaqeen hay kay wahi risalat-e-Adam say shoroo howi aur Janab Mohammad (SAAW) per khatam ho gayee, iss meri tahreer per her eak shakhs gawaah rahay"
( Ailaan Morkha 2 October 1891 man'drja tableegh-e-risalat, and Majmoo'a-e-Ishtay'haarat uz Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadyan)
About Jesus (AS) this is what Mr. Mirza has said: ( again in Rohani Khazayen)
" Ham iss baat kay liya bhi khudaye-e-tala key tarf say mamoor haiN keh Hazrat Essa (AS) ko Khuda ta'la ka Sacha aur paak aur Raast'baaz nabi manaiN aur un key nabowat per Iman la'waiN. so hamari kisi bhi kitab maiN koy aisa lafz bhi nahi ju un key shan-e-buzurgi kay khilaaf ho"
As we have seen earlier in this thread that, What Mr. Mirza has said about Jesus (AS) and his family, infact he called him lair as well.. now all this allegations was in the same book called Rohani Khazyen yet, his claims that he have not said anything against Jesus (AS).
but as i said, Mr. Mirza had two phases, this particular saying in favor of Jesus (AS) was in his first Phase. and finally when he go some followers he went out of limits. Obviously if he had said those bad things about Jesus (AS) in his early years he might have got killed.. so he took his time... but what a contradiction.. only a manly words/thinking can have such contradictions.
Any way, we have seen his believes ( early days) regarding following the way of Prophet (PBUH) and his companions (RZA) and accepting the fact that Wahi has been closed.
( though he went against his statements later on, which I'll post soon)
Since you have brought this up, following video clips will give you a detailed commentary on what happened in 1974 with ahmadies and how so called united ‘muslim ummah’ of 72 sects declared one sect ahmadies kafir and fell into their own trap.
Let me test your intentions first.. As you have posted many quotes from different books of Promised Messiah (as), it becomes your moral obligation to authenticate the allegations related to those quotes by reading atleast the concerned pages/chapters if not the whole book.
Your knowledge of Ahmadiyya literature is so basic, that I can easily recognize your "sources" without any problem. For example your refer to "ruhani khazain" as a book of Promised Messiah (as). Go ask your source if this is correct.
Secondly, you assert that Promised Messiah (as) went through two phases. One as a true muslim and the other allegedly as a claimant of prophethood which according to you was against Islam. And to prove that you so innocetly state that
"Any way, we have seen his believes ( early days) regarding following the way of Prophet (PBUH) and his companions (RZA) and accepting the fact that Wahi has been closed."..
Now, if you have a tiny bit of integrity, you will either accept that you either made the above "fact" up or you just borrowed it from a stupid mullah. Anyone who has read anything from Promised Messiah's (as) book can not draw the above assumption. Promised Messiah (as), long before making his claims, wrote a book which was hailed across india as the best book written in the defense of Islam.. Test questions. What was that book called? How many revelations were mentioned in that book? Once you answer these questions and hopefully read the book you will find that your "two phase" theory is just a product of your laziness.
AS for removing the books from public libraries is concerned, you are wrong again. You have mentioned the national assembly back in the 70s. Do add you the infamous ordinance XX in the scenario and tell me which library can display ahmadiyya literature without breaching 295c.
You can read all the books of Promised Messiah (as) online at www.alislam.org. If you don't like reading online, you can print them and read them off the paper. Have some integrity. Read the books first and then come with all your allegations. I will answer everyone of them.. Besides, what happened to a few of my counter questions that you have evaded by changing the topics.. Do read through my posts and see if you have missed a thing or two..
Innalillah e wa inna ilaihay ra’jeoon! What a lame argument by this guy.
I wonder would this person raise same type of question against Holy prophet :saw: that on one end Allah is saying the prophet Muhammad :saw: is mercy for all mankind yet he waged wars against kuffar?
Rather then discussing what has been discussed on this board umpteens times we should just stick to the core issue.
1-Whther Mr Mirza was indeed eligible for this revered status of Prophet hood?
We muslims think not, reason being mirza sahibs abusive bazari language which he used in his books, mirza sahibs personality as described by himself and his later cheelays, Mirza sahibs contribution to islam being NILL, Mirza jee opposing one of the most important islamic belief of jihad , and the list goes on
2-Mirza shaib used very abusive Lanuguage against Hadrat Essa alihassalam. Mirzais should shed some light on this as well.
If some one can dig old threads , i have posted many images from mirzais books to support my claim.
Wasalam and happy Burning :)
Just nitoced i am reaching 3000 post mark-Kia baat hay
So far in ur replies i have not seen any argument other nulifying my quotes, and ur this very reply also suggests that u have not red my reply. infact may be one or two lines and then clicked on reply…
No wonder u never answered a single thing other than saying that u r reading out ot context etc etc…but u at same time never able to post the same things in teh context… may i ask y?
Anyway, talking about the integrity, i still don’t inderstand what is stopping u from denying all the the stuff is have posted. infact if u only analyze Mr. Mirza’s saying about Jesus and then syaing he have not said anything about him, makes him a lair. ( hope u will not be offended by this)
The point is, How many Prophets are known for this kind of behaviour? How many mujadids are known for this behaviour? how many of them has this level of contradiction in their books ( infact the same book).
reading his one book had me realise that the writer of the book lacks moral values and is of an average mentality. No wonder most of things he said is still questionable and even a knowledgeable person like u is not been able to defend it or give a logical explaination.
I have still not started talking about his famous predictions, u think u will enjoy that once i’ll start that.. hang on!!!