Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani & IsLam

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani & IsLam

1) How many Jesus (AS) and Marry (AS) Mr. Mirza had, as per Quran there is only one Jesus and one Marry. and no one under any circumstances have the right to degrade them. it is not the way of Prohphets. Infact Our Prophets (PBUH) said Moses (AS) is more close to muslims then to jews ( refer to the hadees about the fasting on 10th of Muharam)
As far as christains are concerned, it is their religion and their logics, we don't believe in the things which is in contradict to quran.

2) I guess u have to straighten up ur facts, obviously u are not doing quran reading ( and why should u be doing it). Ayaat related to Jihad (qitaal) was revealed in Madina ( Means after the hijrat). i guess i don't have to say much now on this any more... and now do i have to give u ref. of aya from quran again which says to muslims to stop the evil and spread the peace...

and How does, a man can be Khalifa on earth ( i beleive u don't know quranic ref. of this aya as well)

now lets get back to the topic, and talk about Jesus (AS) and Jihad...

all this questioning can be over, Just like that, if u stop claiming ur self to be a muslim and i can live with qadyanies... and i have not ever in my Life has used bad word for their Messenger or any religious body...

But in case u insist to be a cult of Islam, then believe me there is lot more to come.

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Re: Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani & IsLam

Are you suggesting that shariah of Essa AH was supposed to be same as of Moosa AH? and that the difference of status in Moosa AH and Essa AH is same as Mohammed PBUH and GAQ? BTW, God is angry with Jews for rejecting AND plotting to kill Essa AH.

*** Hum Tum Aur ***
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Re: Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani & IsLam

In humanity sure, but not in religion. They definitely don’t qualify Shah-e-Konain’s :saw: criterion: "Innamal mo’minoona ikhwatun.’ I doubt if the subject is momin.

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Re: Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani & IsLam

You obviously are unaware of a science in religious subects called ilmul Kalam.. It refers to the tactics and manner of arguments and all religious scholars follow this science when having debates. According to ilmul Kalam, you can criticize another person's stance on a certain issue by "supposing" that their beliefs are true and then applying arguments regarding those true beliefs. In the debates between Christians and Muslims, you can either withdraw from a debate by saying that they are wrong and we are right and thats the end of whole discussion. Or you can engage them in an argument regarding validity of their beliefs on the basis of Logic. In this case, you have to "suppose" that their wrong belief is correct and then you raise your objections in that scenario...

In case of Jesus (as) we can engage the christians in a debate by saying, OK, the JEsus you believe in was son of God and the purest of the pure, but how come bible states that his grandmothers were harlots. Or why does the bible state that Jesus used to have messages from women of bad character. Why is it stated in the bible that Jesus was the son of God and God resided in the womb of Mary to fertilize her ovum etc. etc.. These are very vile beliefs stated in the Bible and we have to mention them in order to falsify a very dangerous doctorine. You are obviously unaware of these matters and how chirstians insult Holy Prophet (Saw) in all manners possible. I suggest you read more before discussing this matter.

As for Jihad, your stance on aggressive Qital is very wrong and in a way accusing God of delaying the final victory by holding off muslims from declaring war. The verses of Jihad were revealed after all the conditions of Jihad were met. a.That muslims were being killed. b. That they were driven out of their homes c. That their enemies were pursuing them even when they were in exile. d. Muslims had tried all diplomatic ways of non-violence and preaching until there was no way out.

Even when Jihad was allowed and after three battles were fought, Holy Prophet (Saw) did not go for aggressive Qital and instead sought to perform Hajj. And for this purpose he signed a peace treaty to hold off all war for a period of 10 years. The truce was broken by Meccans and aggression was carried out by them, and only then muslims were allowed to wage war again. To RECLAIM what was rightfully theirs. They did not attack Taif or Hunain or Tubook.. They attacked the place they were driven out from. And there was no intention to continue the war after the fall of Mecca until threats were made again by the enemies.

Islam requires peace to spread. And this is the fundamental truth about the message of Allah. God does not despise the churches or synagogues or zoroastrian/budhist temples.. (faiths based upon monotheism). He enjoins muslims to protect them and allow freedom of faith in all circumstances and even if they have to fight to provide peace to the above mentioned places of worship, they are instructed to do so..

For a national Jihad to be valid, one must be in control of their territory and must have a leader to follow.. (Khalifa/Imam)... For personal Jihad, one can protect life, property and family etc in all circumstances.. But a national Jihad requires a lot more than protecting oil fields of Iraq and oil pipeline of Afghanistan..

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Re: Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani & IsLam

[quote="Captain1"]

Are you suggesting that shariah of Essa AH was supposed to be same as of Moosa AH? QUOTE]

Yes. If you disagree, please provide me on different religious injunction issued by Jesus (as)..

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Re: Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani & IsLam

A prophecy in Torah states that the Messenger (Holy Prophet saw) will be raised among the BRETHREN of Bani Israel.. WE are brethren to Jews and christians too.. believe it or not!!

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Re: Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani & IsLam

ay jhagra kaddon mukna
jadoon jahlum pani sukna?

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Re: Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani & IsLam

First all Ilm-ul-Kalam is not something what Prophets do!!! None of the Prophets mentioned in Quran were ever engaged in such kind of activity so u better straighten ur facts.

Yes Scholars do engage in Ilm-ul-Kalam, Imam Tamima, was one of famous scholars who use to favour ilm-ul-kalam but there is difference of Opinion on the subject of Ilm-ul-Kalam, Illama-ibn-e-Jozi and Imam Zehbi considered Ilm-ul-kalam a bad thing and have forbidden to do so.

even Imam Tamimma have certain reservations on this subject.

So the Scienc of Ilm-ul-Kalam, itself doubtful in Islamic Sciences. I wonder why Mr. Mirza claiming himself to be a prophet and then indulging himself in such an activity which is not the way of Prophets or their Companions.

There u go u got urself one more question!!!

U r saying such a thing about Jihad which are totally contradicts the Islamic History of Ghazwaat!!! e.g. Ghazwa-e-Haneen & Tabuk ( will not go into details one a ref is considered enough)

yes islam is religion of peace and that is the sole purpose of Islamic system. but there are certain forces who will not accept these conditions of Islam as it is against their interest, thats were Muslims are told to have a Qital.

I dont remember the exact ref. but there is an Aya in quran saying, Fight till the peace is made.

i thnk Mr. Mirza haven't had this aya in his mind while denouncing Jihad.

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Re: Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani & IsLam

Now let me tell u something about religions.

All the religions on the planet is there something to give, they are have to create dicipline in the society and amoung the people, the purpose was to tell poeple to how to live their lives. and for serve this purpose Prophets were sent to all the parts of the world, who delivered the message.

Then comes a time on the world, when all the world is in chaos, there is Law of Jungle, and there comes a Prophet on a nation which is considered the most un-civilized one. Who have no belief no ethics no moral grounds, who were moreless like animals in human skin.

Islam came up with the complete guidelines for that kind of nation. the guidelines made animals the beacon of Light, converted the ignorants into the leaders of the world.
Arabs had to absorb Islam fully, infact the North African nations and tribes had to follow the same and as a result we see that they eventually forgot about their traditions , their language and costums and adopted Islam completly, others ( like Iranians & Indians) had their own civilization, so there Islam had answers of the missing links. once those were filled Islam was their religion too.

The point in the above discussion is Islam was need of the time, and the reason it was delivered and implemented on the most Ignorant nation of the planet was to give a complete system and not to miss any part.

And i am certain that Islam has served te purpose, Judaism, Christainity, hinduism and Parsi relgion all are questionable, the books of these religions has flaws. ( U can see the flaw in Mr. Mirza's writing, i have presented few but as i said i have lot more to present) but till today no one can come up with the flaw in Quran. have u ever wondered why is that?

Why this book is flawless, beacause as it is said in the book that this book is completed. nothing more is there which is need to be described, Yani "today we have completed ur religion". Niether of the books of any religion said that.

have u ever wondered why?

In this scenario, reformers comes, they call people back to the book, Illama Ibn-e-Jozi, Imam Tamima, Imam Rabani and there is long list of them, they all explained the religion and called people back to the book, the later mentioned were the declared rebels for doing the same.

But iam sorry to say that, none of above can be said for Mr. Mirza, he never called people back to the book, infact he came up with his own book ( i don't re-call the name now) why complete religion like Islam needed a New prohphet? is it because the BOOK ( quran) had flaws in it? do u believe that? does Mr. Mirza Believed that? Read carefully, the time of every known Prophet, read and try to analyze their times, with in them selves! and then read about the purpose they served!!! analyze all the purpose of all of them, it will give u the message that they served the purpose they were sent for!!!
Now compare ur above analysis with Mr. Mirza's time!!! Compare their words and attitude with Mr. Mirza's word and attitude! compare the flaws Mr. Mirza had in his writing with the divine writings? u 'll get an answer!!!

Last but not least, Dr.Iqbal's poetry is alot better and flawless as compared to Mr. Mirza's writing!!!

Try to get the answer of the following:

1) What was the purpose of Mr. Mirza's Prophecy?
2) What was his achievements?
3) Was he the brightest and/or most wise person of his time ( As Prophet the most wise persons of their time as their wisdom has a divine guidance)

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Re: Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani & IsLam

And your definition of peace is? Until every soul on this planet converts to Islam under the pain of death? If this was the age of Salahuddin, I would certainly support his Jihad as it was a military clash of faiths. Nowadays, faith is under attack in written and spoken words. Our Jihad should be aimed at these issues. Not at athiests and agnostics who are fighting for oil and control.

All Prophets have used Ilmul Kalam.. I can give you a very strong example of Hz. Ibraheem (as) who broke all the idols but one and asked the worshippers to enquire from the remaining idol to tell who was the culprit.. This "pretending" that the idol could possibly speak comes under ilmul Kalam.

Even Quran deals in ilmul Kalam when it challenges the opponents to write verses Surahs like Quran.. This is in a way "assuming" that the rejectors can write such verses and this way rendering them without answers..

What do you want to eat right now?
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Re: Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani & IsLam

What a liar! He had to come up with some lie in order to make his point.

Dude says that Maulvies and Ulema consider Isa (as) and Imam Mehdi to be a Nabi Allah, when they come. This is totally false. Imam Mehdi cant be a Nabi, he was never a Nabi. Yes, Isa (as) was a Nabi, but when he returns he will return as an one of Ummat Rasoolallah (sas) and not as an Nabi.

This was his premises upon which he constructed his argument that this is what Sunnis do, and hence Ahmadies and Sunnies are one and the same. So why blame Ahmadies only.

Seriously, these people have been done with and their falsehood exposed. Their arguments can be refuted by a 10 year old kid. I dont understand why Muslims bother wasting time with these bunch of liars, when their are other bigger issues.

Kya zaroorat thi??????????
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Re: Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani & IsLam

I agree with the gist of what you have said above.. There has been an evolution of religion and Islam came as the last and complete faith for all the people of the world in all ages to follow. But you have missed one detail again.. Every shariah needs reformation and Islam is no exception. Men are week, they forget easily. They are selfish, they twist the meanings of scripture to their personal gains.. Islam has had this damage done to it in the past 1200 years. Quran is still the same, but its understanding has departed from the Ummah.. What do you think is the reason for decline of Muslims? Quran says that the righteous and God fearing will inherit the earth and will be the leaders of the world.. What happened to that?

  1. Promised Messiah (as) did nothing by call people back to Quran. You have to read his books to realize the great service he has done for the service of Quran.

2.Promised Messiah (as) wrote 100+ books.. None of them are considered scripture by any means. Even his revelations are not considered scripture...

3.Quran has no flaws in it. Ironically the predominant mainstream muslim belief is that Quran has flaws in it. Read about the concept of Tanseekh.. Promised Messiah (As) proved conclusively that there are no abrogated verses in Quran and every single word of it is valid until the day of Judgement.

  1. There are two main purposes of Prophets. a. To bring scripture and b. To implement scripture. Only a few propehts brought shariah.. The rest were only there to implement the current Shariah.

  2. The purpose of Mirza Sahib's prophecy was to renovate the faith and revive the last Shariah sent for mankind.

  3. achievements of Promised Messiah (as): Defense of Islam. Defeating christianity. Reviving the true ISlam which was covered up in dust of centuries.

  4. Prophets are the guided persons of their times. Intelligence does not necessarily mean that the person will be guided one as well.. Abul Hakam was Abu Jahal too..

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Re: Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani & IsLam

u know when prophet Muhammad PBUH's son ( abraham ) died... prophet PBUH was crying while putting him in the grave..and He PBUH said... I swear by God if He could have been alive , He would have been a nabi..

i cant find the reference of this but i've heard this one a lot.....and ill find the reference soon.

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Re: Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani & IsLam

theres this one too.... prophet Muhammad PBUH declared Hazrat Ali AS to be khataman aoliya... now u tell me.. werent there a lot of walis who came after hazrat Ali AS? .. and nobody have had a question about that...

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Re: Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani & IsLam

Will you bother giving any references...or will you just keep typing whatever you local ahmadi imam has been feeding into you.

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Re: Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani & IsLam

Wrong.

Prophet said, "IF THERE WAS **PROPHETHOOD **after me, Ibrahim would have been a nabi." Question about his son staying alive and becoming prophet is not the issue but the fact that IF PROPHETHOOD had not ended on Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) only and only then Ibrahim would have become a prophet.

Those who think can get alot of messages and lessons from this. If there was a need for another prophet, who would have been better than Prophet Mohammad's son? His cousin, Ali? His friends and relatives such as Umar, Abu Bakr, Usman and many others that came after them?

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Re: Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani & IsLam

If I prove that you are misguided in this regard, will you take your offensive commments back? You have called a revered figure of Ahmadiyya community a liar.. This is not the islamic way..

Sahih Muslim: Book 041, Number 7015:
An-Nawwas b. Sam'an reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) made a mention of the Dajjal one ............

Allah would send Gog and Magog and they would swarm down from every slope. The first of them would pass the lake of Tibering and drink out of it. And when the last of them would pass, he would say: There was once water there. Jesus and his companions would then be besieged here (at Tur, and they would be so much hard pressed) that the head of the ox would be dearer to them than one hundred dinirs and Allah's Apostle, Jesus, and his companions would supplicate Allah, Who would send to them insects (which would attack their necks) and in the morning they would perish like one single person. Allah's Apostle, Jesus, and his companions would then come down to the earth and they would not find in the earth as much space as a single span which is not filled with their putrefaction and stench. Allah's Apostle, Jesus, and his companions would then again beseech Allah, Who would send birds whose necks would be like those of bactrin camels and they would carry them and throw them where God would will..............

Also,

Nawab Siddiq Hasan Khan of Bhopal, writes on the basis of views held by righteous people of the past:

"Where a man says that the Prophethood of Hazrat Isa would be snatched away from him (at the time of his advent) is a confirmed Kafir, as clearly stated by Imam Jalal-ud-Din Sayuti." (Hojajil Kiramah, page 131)

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Re: Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani & IsLam

[QUOTE]
agree with the gist of what you have said above.. There has been an evolution of religion and Islam came as the last and complete faith for all the people of the world in all ages to follow. But you have missed one detail again.. Every shariah needs reformation and Islam is no exception. Men are week, they forget easily. They are selfish, they twist the meanings of scripture to their personal gains.. Islam has had this damage done to it in the past 1200 years. Quran is still the same, but its understanding has departed from the Ummah.. What do you think is the reason for decline of Muslims? Quran says that the righteous and God fearing will inherit the earth and will be the leaders of the world.. What happened to that?
[/QUOTE]

Yes i agree the reformation comes, Islamic histry is full of them, Reformers like Imam Tamiima and Mujadid Alf Sani are prime examples.

These reformers did their best ( and succeeded) to take out the evils from the society and call people back to Quran and Right Sunnah, these reformers only preached Islam, and promoted Islamic values, which was evident from their writings, life styles and moral values.

Don't be offended if i say that, if one compares the life style,writings,teaching and moral values of these two reformers with the Mr. Mirza's life style,writing,teaching and moral values then Mr. Mirza is at relatively low level.

U gave me ref. of Ilm-ul-Kalam, Imam Tamima was one the experts of this field, he had books on them, i have personally red few of them, and as a person of an average intelleuct i couldn't find much errors or things to be criticised, but this is not the case with Mr. Mirza, where an average person like me can find contradictions between the statements.

I pesonally don't like sufism, but while reading Mujadid Alf sani, again i couldn't much to object.. but it is not the case with Mr. Mirza.

Ab exercises that aren't situps
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Re: Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani & IsLam

i'll answer this tonight

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Re: Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani & IsLam

[QUOTE]
1. Promised Messiah (as) did nothing by call people back to Quran. You have to read his books to realize the great service he has done for the service of Quran.
[/QUOTE]

Please briefly define His services for Quran

[QUOTE]
2.Promised Messiah (as) wrote 100+ books.. None of them are considered scripture by any means. Even his revelations are not considered scripture...
[/QUOTE]

Well Look what Mr. Mirza has to say about that;
" aur Khuda ka kalaam iss qadr mujh per (nazil) howa hay kay agr woh tamaam likha jaye tu 20 juz say kam nahi hota ( Rohani Khazain)

Now it is contradictory Issue within the qadyanies as well,

earlier Mr. Mirza and his Companions use to say that Like Prophet Haroon (AS) Mr.Mirza also didn't had a book.
Then Mr. Mian Mehmood Ahmed said, One cannot be a prophet who do not have Shairat. and Qadyanies are in middle of no where, some time they declare Brahin-e-Ahmadia as their book and some time Khutba-e-Ihamia and sometime Albushra.
So in a Annual Convention, Mr. Mian Mehmood, ordered to gather all the "ilhamat" of Mr. Mirza and asked the followers ( qadyanies ) to recite them, and finally concluded that their is no Quran but the one revealed on Mr.Mirza...
( Ajra-e-Nabuwat ka fitna-e-Azeem, by Dr. Basharat Ahmed Qadyani)

[QUOTE]
4. There are two main purposes of Prophets. a. To bring scripture and b. To implement scripture. Only a few propehts brought shariah.. The rest were only there to implement the current Shariah.
[/QUOTE]

No doubt about it!!! Not all the prophets are the one with Shariah. but there were some common characterstics of the Prophets ( to which we will come later in this discussion), which Mr. Mirza Lacked.

[QUOTE]
5. The purpose of Mirza Sahib's prophecy was to renovate the faith and revive the last Shariah sent for mankind.
[/QUOTE]

Now here is Contradiction ( thats y i never answered the Quranic Verse ( sura-e-Noor) u mentioned earlier in this post), the same task ca be done by Imams, then y a Prophet is required? and it is evident from the history if Islam that Imams have done it ( all the four Imams of Ahl-e-Sunnah, and many others are there), little before and/or same time of Mr. Mirza, few were in the subcontinent, and it was there efforts which saved Muslims from losing their faith and tradtions. None of them, accepted the Prophet-hood of Mr. Mirza.
(there is a law kind of thing in Qura-e-Yaseen, if more than one prophets exist in his time, and how their prophet-hood is verified from the Imams/wali of that time. We don't see that in the lifetime and after the life of Mr. Mirza.

[QUOTE]
6. achievements of Promised Messiah (as): Defense of Islam. Defeating christianity. Reviving the true ISlam which was covered up in dust of centuries.

[/QUOTE]

How and where? details please

[QUOTE]
7. Prophets are the guided persons of their times. Intelligence does not necessarily mean that the person will be guided one as well.. Abul Hakam was Abu Jahal too..
[/QUOTE]

Later in this post, we will check from the evidences that how much Mr. Mirza was divinly guided.