Re: Miracles of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)
I know somewhat but not any details. Care to elaborate. What is the whole argumet of created and not-created about in the Mihna episode?
Re: Miracles of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)
^^
The Caliph Al-Ma’mun, subjected the scholars to severe persecution, at the behest of the Mu’tazilite theologians, most notably Bishr al-Marrisi and Ahmad b. Abi Du’ad, mainly to establish the notion that God created Quaran as a physical entity (rather than saying that Quran is God’s speech in an indescribable way, as held by the orthodox view).
Almost all of the scholas in Baghdad acknowledged the creation-of-Quran doctrine, with notable exceptions of Ibn Hanbal and Muhammad ibn Nuh. This greatly pained and angered Ibn Hanbal, such that he boycotted some of the great traditionists for their acknowledgement, and often refused to narrate hadith from them. Amongst those boycotted were a close companion and a colleague of Imam Ahmad, Yahya b. Ma’in, about whom, it is said that Imam Ahmad refused to speak to him until he died.
Finally, Ahmad ibn Hanbal and Muhammad ibn Nuh were also put to the test on the order of al-Ma’mun, but they refused to acknowledge the creation of the Quran. Consequently, they were dispatched in irons to be dealt with by al-Ma’mun himself. On the way, Imam Ahmad supplicated to Allah to prevent him from meeting al-Ma’mun. His prayer was answered in the sudden death of al-Ma’mun due to which they were both sent back. Muhammad b. Nuh passed away on their return journey, and there was none to prepare his funeral, pray over, and bury him, except Imam Ahmad.
This was on wikipedia
Re: Miracles of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)
This is in start contrast to this post in another thread yesterday:Do you really think, EVERYTHING in islam is based on reason? If it was, we would've discovered everything ourselves no? Why would there be a need for a messenger to come down and teach us religion? *Evidently some are more comfortable when they aren't required to think,* reflect or use reason. It is much easier to point to a fatwa, "scholar" or just follow it the way it has always been followed even though it was man (not God, not Muhammed) that decided how the religion was to be practiced.
Right, now use your intellect and tell me what happens after we die? Give me a logical reasoning, as well as some credible facts.
If you cant, then I suggest not saying anything anymore would further save you from embarassing yourself on here.
Re: Miracles of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)
I didn't say that we didn't need religion to give us answers. I did say that we are required to think because not all answers are in a book. But that doesn't mean we'll know everything there is to know. Nobody has, does or will.
I also contend that in a perfect religion, everything IS based on reason.
Oh, and don't worry. I'm not embarassed at all.
Re: Miracles of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)
paper back too :) but yes I too would like to know, especially when:
6:35 If their turning aside is troublesome for you, then if you were able to dig a tunnel in the ground, or climbed a ladder to the sky and brought them a miracle (they still would not believe). If it were God’s Will, He could assemble them together unto true Guidance. So, do not be among those who are swayed by ignorance (about free will given to humans).
and
6:37 They say, “If only a miracle could come down to him from his Lord!” Say, “God surely has the Power to send down a miracle, but most of them do not use their knowledge.” [He does not wish to stun the human intellect with supernatural phenomena. He wants people to reflect and use reason. 12:108]
Yeah lets not omit the AYahs before that :
[Ana`am 6:34] And indeed Noble Messengers have been denied before you, so they patiently bore the denial and torture till Our help reached them; and there is none to alter the decisions of Allah; *and the news of the Noble Messengers have already reached you. *
[Ana`am 6:35] And if their turning away has grieved you, then if you can, seek a tunnel into the earth or a ladder into the sky to bring a sign for them; and if Allah willed,** He could have brought them all together upon guidance, so O listener (followers of this Prophet) do not ever be of the ignorant*.
6:36Those who listen (in truth),* be sure, will accept: as to the dead, Allah will raise them up; then will they be turned unto Him.
The Surah talks about how one does not reflect upon the words of the Quran. Reflecting and Reasoning are done for you, Allah swt has put that in the Quran. He has shown you the way of life through the Prophet pbuh and the Quran. The only job left is to implement what you have learned.
You cannot Reject the news of the Prophets brought down to you, You cannot reject the Quran, and you certainly cannot reject the Traditions of the Prophet pbuh.
They are the guidelines, and are based on reason and faith. IF you are ignorant of that and wish to establish your own reasoning that which is contradictary to Allah swt's reasoning. Thats your choice.
But being ignorant of that already has its consequences as mentioned in this Surah.
P.s. if he didn't want to 'stun' the human beings, he wouldn't have done anything, and let them discover Islam on their own...why send down a Prophet?
Re: Miracles of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)
I didn't say that we didn't need religion to give us answers. I did say that we are required to think because not all answers are in a book. But that doesn't mean we'll know everything there is to know. Nobody has, does or will.
I also contend that in a perfect religion, everything IS based on reason.
Oh, and don't worry. I'm not embarassed at all.
Really, find me such religion.
Re: Miracles of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)
hmmm, I was under the impression you thought you were following a perfect religion. What in Islam is not based on reason? I'm not talking about the things you don't know or understand, but the things you do know... what is not based on reason?
Re: Miracles of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)
**stupid thread
I would say "christian" like thread.
My question is if Prophet Had done more miracles would his(pbuh) message any different??
And having no miracle(other then quran) would make him less of a prophet??
I mean David copperfield had to be the greatest prophet of all times.
Some time I feel so happy/proud that we muslims have the real deal "islam" Which unlike hinduism/Christianity does't depend on mythology.
Islam is actually based on real stuff
And kids!! if you don't see it.. no miracle can make things better for you **
Re: Miracles of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)
stupid thread
I would say "christian" like thread.
My question is if Prophet Had done more miracles would his(pbuh) message any different?? And having no miracle(other then quran) would make him less of a prophet??
I mean David copperfield had to be the greatest prophet of all times.
Some time I feel so happy/proud that we muslims have the real deal "islam" Which unlike hinduism/Christianity does't depend on mythology. Islam is actually based on real stuff
*And kids!! if you don't see it.. no miracle can make things better for you *
actually that is the purpose of the thread. Prophets's (PBUH) personality and Message does not require to be glorified by some fabricated stories by the story tellers.
The religion (based of the BOOK) is it self is a miracle, isn't it enough to believe in the power of message.. that this message made the Ignorants of Arabian Desert leaders of the known world? i mean where does the history have witnessed such a change?
Thats the Miracle of QURAN, i believe not even ten David Copperfiled can beat that!!!
Re: Miracles of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)
Some time I feel so happy/proud that we muslims have the real deal "islam" Which unlike hinduism/Christianity does't depend on mythology. Islam is actually based on real stuff
Of course that is an opinion or matter of faith, not fact. But I'd watch out, in those "mythological" religions, pride is a sin.
Re: Miracles of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)
Of course that is an opinion or matter of faith, not fact. But I'd watch out, in those "mythological" religions, pride is a sin.
Sorry brother but I don't argue
I said what I had to say. Sorry If I hurt your feeling in any way.
I am not very best at expressing things.
Re: Miracles of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)
till Our help reached them dear brother does not mean magic... sorry but if you turn around and tell me that Tarmeehim BiHijaaratim min Sijeel refers to geological phenomena, then please do not proceed.
Yeah lets not omit the AYahs before that :
[Ana`am 6:34] *And indeed Noble Messengers have been denied before you, so they patiently bore the denial and torture till Our help reached them; and there is none to alter the decisions of Allah; **and the news of the Noble Messengers have already reached you. *
[Ana`am 6:35] And if their turning away has grieved you, then if you can, seek a tunnel into the earth or a ladder into the sky to bring a sign for them; and if Allah willed,** He could have brought them all together upon guidance, so O listener (followers of this Prophet) do not ever be of the ignorant*. 6:36Those who listen (in truth),* be sure, will accept: as to the dead, Allah will raise them up; then will they be turned unto Him.
The Surah talks about how one does not reflect upon the words of the Quran. Reflecting and Reasoning are done for you, Allah swt has put that in the Quran. He has shown you the way of life through the Prophet pbuh and the Quran. The only job left is to implement what you have learned.
You cannot Reject the news of the Prophets brought down to you, You cannot reject the Quran, and you certainly cannot reject the Traditions of the Prophet pbuh.
They are the guidelines, and are based on reason and faith. IF you are ignorant of that and wish to establish your own reasoning that which is contradictary to Allah swt's reasoning. Thats your choice.
But being ignorant of that already has its consequences as mentioned in this Surah.
P.s. if he didn't want to 'stun' the human beings, he wouldn't have done anything, and let them discover Islam on their own...why send down a Prophet?
Re: Miracles of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)
(and the moon has been cleft asunder.) It occurred during the time of Allah’s Messenger , according to the authentic Mutawatir Hadiths the scholars agree that the moon was cleft asunder during the lifetime of the Prophet, and it was among the clear miracles that Allah gave him. Hadiths mentioning that the Moon was split
The Narration of Anas bin Malik
Imam Ahmad recorded that Anas bin Malik said, "The people of Makkah asked the Prophet for a miracle and the moon was split into two parts in Makkah. Allah said,
(The Hour has drawn near, and the moon has been cleft asunder.)‘’ Muslim also collected this Hadith. Al-Bukhari recorded that Anas bin Malik said, "The people of Makkah asked the Messenger of Allah to produce a miracle, and he showed them the splitting of the moon into two parts, until they saw (the mount of) Hira’ between them.‘’ This Hadith is recorded in the Two Sahihs with various chains of narration.
From Tafsir Ibn Kathir
Re: Miracles of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)
^^ see again it is copy paste and with understading the aya.
Sura-e-Qamr, Para 27 ayat no. 1
the Aya is:
The Hour has drawn near and the moon has been cleft asunder.
anyway lets get to riwaya. ( in urdu)
"Ibn-e-Abbas(RZA) say marwi hay, Hazoor (PBUH) kay zamanay maiN chand-grahan howa aur uss per Kufaar-e-Makkah nay kaha kay un per jado ker diya gaya hay. uss per yeh ayaat nazil howeeN"
Ibn-e-katheer has added above mentioned riwaya in his famous tafseer, and as per my knowledge, If there are several opinion on a particular event then opinion of Ibn-e-Abbas dominates all of them.
In the riyawa of Anas bin Malik there is one narrator in chain of narrators His name is Khalf-bin-Mousa, Imam Ibn-e-Haban use to count him as trustworthy but he say that Khalf bin Mousa some time make mistakes in narrating events.
Now there is again a slight difference noted between the other narrators,
some ( like ibn-e-Masood (RZA)) says that we were at Ma'na but some ( like Ibn-e-Umer(RZA) ) says that we were at Makkah with the Prophet (PBUH).
Now either one of them is mistaken, cause it is impossible to be at both places. secondly Ibn-e-Katheer has copied this ahadith from Tabri, now What Opinion does Scholars have on tabri that need not to mention here.
Do i need to say more? if yes please let me know
Re: Miracles of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)
^^ see again it is copy paste and with understading the aya.
Sura-e-Qamr, Para 27 ayat no. 1
the Aya is: The Hour has drawn near and the moon has been cleft asunder.
anyway lets get to riwaya. ( in urdu) "Ibn-e-Abbas(RZA) say marwi hay, Hazoor (PBUH) kay zamanay maiN chand-grahan howa aur uss per Kufaar-e-Makkah nay kaha kay un per jado ker diya gaya hay. uss per yeh ayaat nazil howeeN"
Ibn-e-katheer has added above mentioned riwaya in his famous tafseer, and as per my knowledge, If there are several opinion on a particular event then opinion of Ibn-e-Abbas dominates all of them.
In the riyawa of Anas bin Malik there is one narrator in chain of narrators His name is Khalf-bin-Mousa, Imam Ibn-e-Haban use to count him as trustworthy but he say that Khalf bin Mousa some time make mistakes in narrating events.
Now there is again a slight difference noted between the other narrators,
some ( like ibn-e-Masood (RZA)) says that we were at Ma'na but some ( like Ibn-e-Umer(RZA) ) says that we were at Makkah with the Prophet (PBUH).
Now either one of them is mistaken, cause it is impossible to be at both places. secondly Ibn-e-Katheer has copied this ahadith from Tabri, now What Opinion does Scholars have on tabri that need not to mention here.
Do i need to say more? if yes please let me know
Muslim **also collected this Hadith
**Al-Bukhari recorded that Anas bin Malik said, "The people of Makkah asked the Messenger of Allah to produce a miracle, and he showed them the splitting of the moon into two parts, until they saw (the mount of) Hira' between them.'' *This Hadith is recorded in the Two Sahihs with various chains of narration.
*
Re: Miracles of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)
Muslim **also collected this Hadith **Al-Bukhari recorded that Anas bin Malik said, "The people of Makkah asked the Messenger of Allah to produce a miracle, and he showed them the splitting of the moon into two parts, until they saw (the mount of) Hira' between them.'' This Hadith is recorded in the Two Sahihs with various chains of narration.
Then please give me the chain of narrators....
not all the ahadees in Sahiheen are 100% correct, some of them are hassan and some hassan-zaeef and some zaeef as well???
Re: Miracles of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)
And some are fabricated?
Re: Miracles of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)
yes ofcourse, have u ever red the preface of these two books?
Re: Miracles of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)
yes ofcourse, have u ever red the preface of these two books?
No.
But Quranic ayah is there and Imam Ibn Kathir has given the shaan e nizul of the ayah according to the ahadith from bukhari, muslim....
It seems You just want to disagree, would you deny all other miracles as well according to the sahih ahadith?
Re: Miracles of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)
No.
But Quranic ayah is there and Imam Ibn Kathir has given the shaan e nizul of the ayah according to the ahadith from bukhari, muslim....
It seems You just want to disagree, would you deny all other miracles as well according to the sahih ahadith?
U seems to have only the copy paste knowledge then.
And if have u read the foot notes about the ahadith Ibn-e-Kathis mentioned in very same tafseer of aya? did u ever care to read them for understanding? if yes then my question regarding chain of narrators will be valid for u. but if not ( which is more likely to be the story) then u have no idea what iam talking about. because answer of my question was in my reply, which i have given u above, u either missed it or failed to understand. so again i must say. please do not paste the stuff u have not understood fully.
and my advice to u is, if u can stop wasting time in only copy pasting a start reading something worth reading then u can be more beneficial to ur family and relatives ( but i think u will take my advice as a word of Jahil< thats what u called me right> or may be even worst)
so go and read preface of the book and then we will talk about ahadith