Mira - A Rebellious Rajput

Arts & Culture History
41

Re: Mira - A Rebellious Rajput

but there are also cases when shudras were punished for listening to religious scriptures…

42

Re: Mira - A Rebellious Rajput

This is also not entirely wrong, in post vedic times, the caste system became hereditary, and hence came such practices of humiliating shudras. Honestly, if in the village some one ask me to eat from shudra’s house even I can’t, they don’t have any hygiene:D,and I can challenge that no one from this forum can also do so. Valmiki was born shudra, but he upgraded his status.

43

Re: Mira - A Rebellious Rajput

But in today's time, when people are made to spent their lives to struggle for getting meal for two times, how can we expect poor people to raise their status and care for hygiene. In Islam, we are taught 'Cleanliness is half of your faith', but if Shoodars are not allowed to hear words of scriptures, how they will knew what is right and whats wrong.

44

Re: Mira - A Rebellious Rajput

Kaur

The Shukracharya story I have head. But had forgotten after so many decades, So thank you for bringing it back:)

The story only shows Brahmins drank wine (or Shukracahrya did). I dont thinn he knew meat was mixed in wine. So is it not true those days Brahmins did not eat meat?

45

Re: Mira - A Rebellious Rajput

Good question? Is there anyother instance mentioned in Vedic literature that proves this thing.

Southie Uncle , we have to wait until tomorrow as the kaur gone offline.

46

Re: Mira - A Rebellious Rajput

I agree. Kaur comes up with the right answers - so worth the wait!

47

Re: Mira - A Rebellious Rajput

The best statement is Vedas is the most difficult thing in the world is to follow the conscience and hold the human drawbacks. Islam teaches about cleanliness in the strongest term but still I have seen filthy Muslim homes just like house of Shudras. What Brahmins did wrong was to close the line of education to them but living graciously is entirely human things, we jats were little better than shudras before Sikhi came into existence but we were never filthy like our shudra brothers. But when the flag against Brahmins is raised they forget it was Raja Ram mohan roy, swami dayanand saraswati or ishwarchandra vidyasagar who tried to raise their status, that is why it was a Shudra named Baba Saheb Ambedkar who was chairman of drafting commission of Indian constitution. Shudras worked like bonded labour in the house of Thakurs/Rajput/land owning community, there are hardly any social reformer this community produced but it is first one along with shudras to malign Brahmin.

the story I mentioned is from Post vedic literature of Mahabharat, entire 18 purans are post vedic literature, the trinity of Brahma,Vishnu, Mahesh along with Shakti appears in post vedic literature only. the rough gap between Vedic and Post vedic literature is no less than 1000 years. Vedic literature explicitly mentions about the way Ashwamegh Yagya, which means giving horse meat as prasad and also mentions Beef eating but by the time Mahabharat came into existence it was against beef eating. there are shlokas in vedas mentioning this. Shukrachrya loved meat laced wine, he wasn't knowing it has Katch's meat. Despite having this bad habit, his status never fell as Maharishi, it implies that this was acceptable then.

48

Re: Mira - A Rebellious Rajput

ok - makes snese.

How many years after Mahabharatha was Siddharth born?

49

Re: Mira - A Rebellious Rajput

Very interesting question. Is it with reference to the kaur's comment that Brahmins relinquished eating meat after they observed Buddhists doing so. I found this information about the difference of period between Mahabharata & Siddhartha.

[QUOTE]
The time of Gautama's birth (Sidhartha) and death are uncertain:** most early 20th-century historians dated his lifetime as c. 563 BCE to 483 BCE,but more recent opinion dates his death to between 486 and 483 BCE or, according to some, between 411 and 400 BCE**.

Traditionally, the authorship of the Mahabharata is attributed to Vyasa. There have been many attempts to unravel its historical growth and compositional layers. The oldest preserved parts of the text are not thought to be appreciably older than around 400 BCE, though the origins of the story probably fall between the 8th and 9th centuries BCE. The text probably reached its final form by the early Gupta period (ca. fourth century CE). The title may be translated as "the great tale of the Bhārata dynasty". According to the Mahabharata itself, the tale is extended from a shorter version of 24,000 verses called simply Bhārata.

[/QUOTE]

50

Re: Mira - A Rebellious Rajput

Dating has always been a problem with these text, initially the events happened, then it became the part of Oral tradition and were written down after writing was conceptualized. Oldest surviving text is Rigved, It is assigned the date of between 1700-1100 BCE, It contains genealogy of 52 kings ranging more than 5000 years, Now conceptualization of Vedas is in different era, Oral tradition through which it was transferred from one generation to another till writing was discovered is another trouble of dating it, finally written form can be dated through carbon dating. Similarly Mahabharat clearly states that story was narrated by Maharishi VedVyas and was immediately written by Bhagwan ShriGanesh. It is post vedic literature and came into existence after writing was discovered. It was was narrated to Parik**** at the age of Beginning of Kaliyug. Every dating appears arbitrary and can be dated only if initial text is dated properly. Shri Krishn mentions the location of grihas and stars on which he started journey to hastinapur to break a deal between two warring group that corresponds to the sky of 5000 years back according to historian Kaznas, so it is all in confusion truly

First dating of scriptures was done by german historian Max muller. According to Bishop Ussher's calculation entire universe was formed on 23rd October 4004 BCE hence entire history should be fit with in 6000 years.

51

Re: Mira - A Rebellious Rajput

Yes

52

Re: Mira - A Rebellious Rajput

Kaur,

The universe has been in existence for millions of years I think.

53

Re: Mira - A Rebellious Rajput

The entire dating is done on the basis of this calculation and it is arbitrary, secondly Vedas unlike Ramayan and Mahabharat didn't originate from one single person, Vedas are entirely the creation of Saraswat Brahmins, implying they were created on the bank of Saraswati, It becomes very difficult to date post vedic literature's date unless the dates of Vedas are defined. Then came various Upnishads and Smritis who were created after all 18 purans, most likely during the time of Raja Bhoj, Vikramaditya etc

54

Re: Mira - A Rebellious Rajput

Sarswati - the dried river connected to Hakra of Rohi... Is there any link between Sarsvati and Kumbh ka mela?

55

Re: Mira - A Rebellious Rajput

Vedic Hymns praises Saraswati as the mother of all knowledge, Saraswati is also prime godess, Adopted daughter of creator of universe, Brhama, Vedas also mentioned that Mata left the earth and went back to BrahmLok referring that it had dried, Post vedic literature were written aroung Gangaji, hence in post vedic literature Gangaji takes prominence.

Then comes story of Sagar Manthan, literally, churning the sea. 14 Ratnas came out of it including Amrit, elixir, asuras and devtas, the two parties started fighting and took the pot and started running all over land, Amrit fell on four places, Ujjain, Nasik, Haridwar, and Kashi. hence Kumbh mela is celebrated in every four years in four location

56

Re: Mira - A Rebellious Rajput

Heard / Read that Sarsvati lost its existence by falling in Ganga / Jamna. Someone told that Amitabh Bachan's movie - Ganga Jamna Sarsvati (my favourite movie in childhood just because of the scene where he carried a crocodile on his shoulders) is based on the same concept that Sarsavati sacrificed to unite Ganga & Jamna.

So Kumbh mela is celebrated after 4 years at each of the four locations? I was of the view that it is celebrated after 14 years.

57

Re: Mira - A Rebellious Rajput

This is what vedas metaphorically say, Saraswati never existed in plains it was in the region of saptsindhu where vedic literature came up, it is claimed in vedas that vedas emerged out of Saraswati's water. Allahabad/Kashi has triveni sangam where Ganga and Yamuna merge while Saraswati is said to be disappeared in doing so. Post vedic literature transferred all qualities of Saraswati to Gangaji, and Ganga got the status of being the most revered river status.

Ardh kumb mela is celebrated in every six years at Haridwar and Allahbad/Kashi, Poorna kumbh mela is celebrated in each location after 12 years. And maha kumbh mela which comes after 12 poorna kumbh mela ie 144 years is celebrated in Kashi/Allahabad.

58

Re: Mira - A Rebellious Rajput

sapatsindhu covers which areas? Is it present day Sindh?

59

Re: Mira - A Rebellious Rajput

Sindu in sanskrit refers to a river and Sindh means land around river, Saptsindhu is the area of Punjab region with seven rivers at that time. Sindh was referred as SindhSagar, the land by the side of ocean where rivers merged in the sea. Is the word SindhSagar is still in vogue in state of Sindh??

60

Re: Mira - A Rebellious Rajput

Yes it is it still part of Sindhi poetry and literature. people still name their daughters Sindhu and sons Sagar.