Ministers degree challenged / Court removes MMA politician (MERGED)

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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MULTAN: The Muthidda Majlis-i-Amal has challenged the BA degree of Federal Agriculture and Livestock Minister Abdul Sattar Lalika at the Election Tribunal demanding his disqualification and reelection.

They have produced more than 50 proofs regarding the bogus BA degree. The MMA loser for NA-190 (Chishtian/Haroonabad) Dr Mian Ehsan Bari who filed reference with the Tribunal, disclosed this in a press conference on Monday.

Federal Minister produced a graduation degree of a Karachi-based Canadian school of management, but the school did not exist. The necessary documents in this regard have been attached with the reference. Another fictitious contact address of the said school has been given in Karachi Al-Falah Building, fourth floor room No 401, but there is no office, said Bari.

The phone numbers of the school were also proved fictitious as the phone is installed at a shop. The shifting of school offices is indicated at Musarat Arcade 32/A Block 13/A Gulshan Iqbal Karachi, but the signboards of three offices namely Pioneer Institute, Sliming Institute and Langua Do Com are displayed on the second floor of the Arcade.

Serious spelling mistakes are visible on the degree as the word “Confessed” is printed instead of “Conferred.” Islamabad University Grants Commission of Pakistan has already conveyed to the concerned Returning Officer that the Canadian School of Management is neither registered nor affiliated with UGC, and they will not accept the degree.

Bari said the candidate Abdul Sattar Laika failed to submit attested copy of the certificates from UGC, while the signatures of a person were stamped on three spots of the degree instead of signatures of the Deen, Director Academic Officer and Registrar. The degree was issued in 1990, but detailed marks sheet was issued after 10 years in 2000.

The degree showed that Lalika was the student of the school from 1987 to 1990 when he was federal minister and MNA. Bari said Lalika wrote his GCO and matriculation qualification during his election period from 1990 to 1997. The Internet sources have also confirmed the non-existence of Canadian School of Management, he said.

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I dont know the rest of teh Hangama and all, but canadian School of management did exist in Karachi, had 2 campuses one in Gulshan and one in DHS back in 80’s-90’s, not sure if they are still around.

what do you guys make of it

I mean the guy could be as corrupt as possible, sure, but Canadian School of Management operated in pakistan. Now if UGC would say that they do not recognize this as a degree granting institution, why did they not shut it down when this place operated.

There are tons of these universities operating in Pakistan satellite campuses or “affiliates” of european or american universities. Should the govt not be clamping down on colleges they do not recognize?

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I think a school should be recognized and registered at the Ministry of Education to award an eligible degree. :)

And there should be some organization which should evaluate the foreign degrees.

Election commission should work better too!

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I think the education minister will indeed be busy over the coming years. The Universities need to be affiliated to the appropriate governing body – whether the UGC remains or another body is set-up remains to be seen.

The government may indeed clamp down on colleges they do not recognize. However, with the high population and lack of educational facilities there may indeed be a need for organisations to provide subjects studied at recognized universities - but they should have the students take their final exams at a university recognized by the official governing body.

I am not sure if anyone has recently visited Karachi. If you have, you might have noticed at every street corner there is an ‘Institute This…or Institute That… etc’. They all provide a basic facility for people to get some level of education and training. It really would be great if at the end of attending the course at these institutes, people were able to get their qualification officially recognized.

For people that are interested, here is an interesting website: http://www.pakuniversities.com/pakuni/aod.asp

As a by note, I am thinking of setting up an institute in Lalookhet. I was disappointed at the lack of facilities teaching people how to make ‘lal pari raja rajan double tumbakhoo easy on the khattha and choona paan’. I believe there is a great demand, and adding the word ‘Institute’ at the end will ensure I charge ten times the amount people would pay at ‘Lalookhet panch number college’ :slight_smile:

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reminds me of something that happened here in the US - a colleagues nephew sent USD 1500 to a university that promised a degree in 6 months. We actually went to the address published and it turned out to be a Mailbox Inc location!

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The problem here is that CSM or canadian School of Management did exist, and was affiliated with CSM in Canada which back then was like a recognized vocational-technical institute. I know ppl who attended pakistan campus, some transferred abroad and others graduated and are working in Pakistan.

The diploma for CSM is not issued in Pakistan so why would it need to deal with Univ Grants Commission? There are campuses of institutes that give students degrees from southeastern uni in US as well as some other foriegn universities.

If these satellite campuses are not up to par and their degrees will not be recognized, the govt needs to clamp them down otherwise there are plenty of people blowing their money at them, if they are providing a decent education then there should not be an issue.

I mean what if UGC says that they dont recognize a degree by uni of phoenix in US or sme distant leraning program of an accredited overseas university?

I see 2 issues here. did this guy get a fake degree.. if he did, boot his ass. however, its rich for UGC to say oh we dont recognize that institute. It was set up it operated, awarded degrees and diplomas and then probably closed shop or changed their affiliation. If we let an institute operate openly, people who went to those unis should not be penalized.

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Looks like the mullahs just want some kursis and cash and ears to listen to them.

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The guy looks and acts like an illiterate. enough said.

PCG, why u r so much paranoid about mullahs that u don't even think what u r writing. mullahs are not in the government so which kursi r u talking about. they had rather said that they would support the government if anyone else tried to de-stable it since the government has a very simple majority in the parliament.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by khan_sahib: *
The guy looks and acts like an illiterate. enough said.

[/QUOTE]

he probably did not go to the institute which is one issue. I am looking more at the second one that if UCG is not going to accept the degrees of some institutes why do they let them operate in the open, advertise in papers etc etc, what about control?

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Fraudia Sahib,
Why don't you write to the UGC? :)

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Fraudia bhai,

as far as i know UGC (that's a cinema's name here) is not an authoritative body but rather an advisory commission to the government on university level education matters.

they have produced the list of institutions where people should study but there is lack of implementation. it's more like law and police they don't go very well together. call it lack of interaction between the departments or whatever but it is unfortunately the case.

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UGC is primarily to disburse federal grants to universities, and using that position, by default they are also responsible to filter out genuine universities from the fake ones.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Ahmed: *
Fraudia Sahib,
Why don't you write to the UGC? :)
[/QUOTE]

I have a letter ready but cant find a dang email address for these guys

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Fraudz: *

I have a letter ready but cant find a dang email address for these guys
[/QUOTE]

ay lo ;)

[email protected]

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Faisal: *
UGC is primarily to disburse federal grants to universities, and using that position, by default they are also responsible to filter out genuine universities from the fake ones.
[/QUOTE]

right but they should don it then, not after the fact. There are tons of kids attending "satellite campuses" of foriegn unis in Pakistan, some are campuses of real unis and some are not.

UGC does not have authority to declare a foriegn university fake if the educational authorities in that country dont consider it fake.

CSM, Greenwich and others are not Pakistani universities but you get a degree or diploma from a foiegn institute.

There are several arguments here

Lalika did not go to CSM -

i dont doubt it, there are enough CSM alumni around that ppl can ask them. or just make him take a simple exam to see kitnay paani mein hai.

CSM is not recognized-

Well it may nto be recognized in Pakistan but elsewhere, dunn matter where u physically were when u got the degree, plenty of good as well as fake schools have satellite campuses. what if someone did a degree from an openuniversity or even distance learning from uni of london etc.

CSMs address and phone numbers are incorrect,

errrr dont organizations and institutions move, change numbers, or even cease operations. I mean if you call the phone number I had 5 years ago and find someone else there does it mean I never existed? or what if u call the number of someone who is dead..and someone else has been assigned that number does it mean that the dead dude did not exist? same question for institutions.

Lalika did not get a detailed marks-sheet, read transcript until 2000 even though he graduated in 1990.

well you dont get a transcript when u graduate unless u want a copy for a job or further studies. thats a lame argument, dunn even make any sense.

I have no problems with someone asking this guy to prove that he went to school there but their arguments are lame, and unless they can actually bring alumni of CSM who can state that this guy did not go to school there, the MMA ppl dont really have a case.

My prediction. they wont be able to do jack.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Faisal: *

ay lo ;)

[email protected]
[/QUOTE]

man grants commission does not have its own domain name? sheesh, okay i will drop them an email but who knows if fazloo nanbai set this up.

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Khan saahib, I'm against idiotic mullahs who misuse Islam for their political endeavors and MMA has proven that most of its members are like that. Instead of trying to compromise with the government and working with it, last I heard they were refusing to cooperate with the other party members because their demands on some of Mush's laws weren't being met.

Now you call that wanting to work with others to create a better Pakistan?

I call it the ego-driven madness of the mullahs - the its-my-way-or-the-highway-and-yes-me-having-a-beard-and-having-male-genitals-gives-me-this-authority syndrome.

In short - mullahism.

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:rolleyes: so far they haven’t used Islam and even the party’s name is not based on Islam

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: how?

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: like which party?

i may not support these mullahs but i do think like most other educated people that the constitution of our country shouldn’t be changed again or else we will have another Bangladesh on our hands. i can’t be bothered to go into detail since i m sleepy but if u r interested then we can talk about it in detail sometime later.

some people should flush this idea from their brains that one can only support a country if they support the government. :rolleyes:

u need to read some pakistani newspapers and take some anti mullahophobia pills before u write anything close to above. :slight_smile:

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question: are the islamic clergy (mullahs) graduated to such state after some formal process & education? then shouldn't that be given credit as a degree in theology or religion?

or can someone suddenly get a divine intervention one night and decalre himself a mullah?

BTW is mullah a deregatory term? I was corrected by someone once but here I see it being used freely so I guess it is not. eh?

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by khan_sahib: *
The guy looks and acts like an illiterate. enough said.

PCG, why u r so much paranoid about mullahs that u don't even think what u r writing. mullahs are not in the government so which kursi r u talking about. they had rather said that they would support the government if anyone else tried to de-stable it since the government has a very simple majority in the parliament.
[/QUOTE]

It has something to do with her ethnicity... She belongs to group in Sindh, that are not so fond of Punjabis, pathan mullahs etc....

However, I see nothing wrong with these mollahs. They are merely challenging something, which Mr. Musharraf implemented himself. Fraudia, the UGC does not merely shut down the schools it does not recognize... They just done recognize these schools, whether people want to study in them, thats another issue. But since this school has not bee recognized by the UGC, this PML-Q lota who got a bogus degree from it, should be disqualified.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Spock: *

They just done recognize these schools, whether people want to study in them, thats another issue. But since this school has not bee recognized by the UGC, this PML-Q lota who got a bogus degree from it, should be disqualified.
[/QUOTE]

ytup but UGC only has authority to recognize Pakistany schools, many of these chools ahve some kind of recognition in other countries.

heck I have no doubt that this dude has a fake degree, they shoukld just give him an exam that anyone with his degree should pass, and see hoe sell he does :)

but MMA argumenst are lame

1) detailed marks sheet with 2000 dates while graduation was supposedly in 1990

well, you can get transcripts at anytime and ofcourse teh transcripts will have the date issued not teh date graduated. It ainst like pakistan where u get your "marks sheet" as exam results.

2) CSm was not a school

how can ther ebe alumni associations. maybe it disbanded in Pakistan

3) UGC dunn recognize it

UGC can only recognize Pakistani unis, not foriegn unis. If an institute is recognized in some capacity by its natrive country, well guess what they have a valid degree.

MMA has made these three claims which can easily be refuted, none of these can prove or disprove whethe rthis dude has a fake degree. focus on the degree and not on these tangent lame arguments which anyone can shred to pieces.