[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Tamer: *
....
**Changez*
Did Sultan attended to ur curiosity or need I say more dear? :-)
....
[/QUOTE]
It'd be better that you tell me about how you found out their belly buttons, were they exposing it like ppl do by wearing low rise jeans ?
** Changez**, If you were to attend these basant parties, birthdays, new yr’s eves, valentine’s day special party u’ll come across girls that are wearing something to show off their b-b studs. Either the low rise jeans, or the famous one being the small little jazzy spaghetti strap tank top. They are obsessed with the spaghetti straps.
**Hiccups**, keep your despicable *decaying* mush to the herd of bb-pierced *donkeys* and tattooed *camels* that you nurture for your current livelihood. Yes you are correct, you are falling apart, as your words are a living proof! For if you had the marbles of true *naik* intellectual then you would have given my entire post a good read, before you spat off your *retard*ed ape witted drivel.
Tamer i do believe manners are something highly upheld and in our society. Sadly you lack them. Females pierce their ears. Their nose. How is that islamic and a belly button not? Its their personal choice. Let them do what they wish. After we dont complain when you spout off nonsense as conversation.
Sultan Suri. You will see Pakistani girls kissing their danish boyfriends if you go to porn sites.
I’m afraid you are confused, what is in this thread is mere drivilling. Mumblings, Zoo Zoo, I wouldn’t consiously spit in your ill-educated, banana munching, direction even if anything you said made vague sense and danced at me. I value amalyse too much.
Btw, I simply love your use of italics. Re original I’m sure. 
hello everybody, I want to share my opnion,
normally i dont care what people wear or not wear.
But i believe that if you call your self a muslim, there are some limits.
So no mix parties,( expect family ones) drinking and exposing any bodyparts.
and bellybottom piercing , big yak. It looks so ugly. but if one want to pierce any of theire bodyparts, thats theire own problems
( In some schools here in Denmark, it is not allowed to show bellybotoms or weare low necks, because even very young girls
started to weare clothes that showed theire bellyies and other bodyparts)
I know this is off topic)
Living here in europe for atlleast for 28 years , i still get shoked , if i see a pakistani girl wearing clothes showing body parts. . And even more when i see any girl sleevless shopping in sadar, pakistan.
AM i making sense, my english is not so good any more.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by CM: *
Tamer i do believe manners are something highly upheld and in our society. Sadly you lack them. Females pierce their ears. Their nose. How is that islamic and a belly button not? Its their personal choice. Let them do what they wish. After we dont complain when you spout off nonsense as conversation....
[/QUOTE]
CM, they can pierce any part they want. The problem I have is showing it off. It just shows how much on a decline we are on Islamic values, as individual and as a society.
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by diyah: *
...
AM i making sense, my english is **so* good any more.
[/QUOTE]
yes, you did make sense (other than ur last sentence :p)
Tamer -- I think the root of our misunderstanding/disagreement is different approaches to life. As I've matured, I've learned that nothing is black and white. Morality, reputability, beauty, these are all relative terms that vary from individual to individual.
To me, it is honest when I say that I am uncertain. It would be dishonest for me to take a stand on an issue for which I don't have a definite opinion -- when I can see and understand both sides. So when I tell you that I don't have a definite opinion about the issue, it is not that I am afraid to take a stand. I am being honest and trying to engage in a discussion with you about it.
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Tamer: *
**Sahar….. for the umpteenth time, lets get this straight. **I AM TALKING ABOUT PPL THAT FLAUNT THEMSELVES WITH TATTOOS AND BELLY BUTTON PIERCING* concisely (and that is specifically just b-b piercing, because that comes across as a vulgar display of ill morality. So be precise about that first off!!!). NO side tracking off topic here.
[/quote]
sorry -- it wasn't clear from your original post what you were talking about. i'm not the only one to ask about it. just clarify. there's no need to yell.
[quote]
Sahar, since when has anyone uttered the forbidden words *“ÜNISLAMIC” *in this thread???
[/quote]
i apologize for bringing up the word "unislamic" -- i perhaps misread your meaning when you used words like "reputable" and "morality."
Regarding what you said below:
[quote]
Babe, there is no discussion based here on the hypothesis of,“l will cross the bridge when I get there.” You either are completely sure about something or you are not. Its just plain as that, and the more u put urself in a “to be or not to be” position, u just come across as a very lost and confused guppie. Enuf said!!!
[/QUOTE]
First off, you might refer again to what I said at the beginning of the post. Second, I didn't say "I'll cross that bridge when I get to it..." I told you what I think I would do if I were put in the situation. It would be particularly moronic of me to say for certain how I would behave, because I don't really know. I don't know the future, and I assume you don't either.
Also, don't quote Shakespeare unless you understand what the phrase means. It's irrelevant to this discussion.
So you asked originally if "we" should allow this trend to continue. And I was wondering what your opinion is now and if you could explain it more clearly.
Thanks.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Changez_like: *
yes, you did make sense (other than ur last sentence :p)
[/QUOTE]
sorry, have edited now.
Belly button is unIslamic if you’re wearing tank tops to show it off! Why would anyone pierce their belly if they aren’t going to wear skimpy clothes ?!
By the way, I didn’t get the point of this discussion. Is it opened so we all can bash Lahori girls? I don’t understand why Muslim men have to always criticize women. 
Why don’t you guys stop criticizing women and start minding your “own” business? But I guess that’s too much to ask! 
I have a family friend who came from Pakistan about 10 years ago. She went to a very good school, as she is from a well-to-do family. She told me that the girls in the school were getting into wierd stuff. That they would 'date' eachother and write love notes to eachother. Also she said they would openly kiss and hold hands. I know alot of girls in other cultures hold hands but this was blatant lesbianism. She said they would get jealous if one girl would talk with another one and they would fight and cry over eachother. Hmm...ok.
She also mentioned that bulimia was quite common and many girls would throw up regularly. That was highschool in Pakistan!! I've read articles in Libas for instance about Eating Disorders in Pakistan, so I assume it has existed there for a while. It's so strange that in a country where so much poverty exists there is so much excess also. Can we blame that on Western influence?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by diyah: *
hEY...:) I know you're a woman and I wasm't talking to you or about you. I was talking to the guy who opened this thread so chill...
btw, what do you think, what will you get out of this discussion? How will it help change those women who flaunt their bodyparts in public? I don't think criticizing someone will change his/her way of life unless you talk to them personally! These women are probably dressing the way they are because they're getting attention and thats what you're doing, giving them attention!
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by CurruptAngel: *
hEY...:) I know you're a woman and I wasm't talking to you or about you. I was talking to the guy who opened this thread so chill...
btw, what do you think, what will you get out of this discussion? How will it help change those women who flaunt their bodyparts in public? I don't think criticizing someone will change his/her way of life unless you talk to them personally! These women are probably dressing the way they are because they're getting attention and thats what you're doing, giving them attention!
[/QUOTE]
No ofcourse me criticizing them here , wont stop them flaunting their bodyparts. And normally i dont care, but I get worried when we go to pakistan and my daughter sometimes questions the dif´rence between mulim and non muslims. Because living in europe we teach our children that there is a differenc between us and the others because they are not muslims, and they do this and that and weare this and that because they are not muslim. ANd then we wisit pakistan , and see veryvery sleevless girls aand other stuff.
I think they are dressing this way in the name of fashion, in theire eyes and they are inspired by the west or indiaen wearings, whatever.
As i said before no drinking no mix party for boy or girl or staying out late. or let me say it this way , Once girl told me that her brother told her ke pakistani larkian bohat kharab ho gheyeen hain, he had seen many pakistani girls in a disco, my reply was kya tumahara bhai wahan namaz parne gheya tha?
Rich people are same everywhere…
I agree, their dressing is wrong and unIslamic and what not but again, what can we do to change it? Is there any way? I haven’t visited Pakistan for about 7 yrs but I’m sure the majority of Pakistani women still wear decent shalwar kameez or at least they don’t wear sleeveless’s. I think you guys need to change the company you keep when you go to Pakistan because this type of stuff is still rare back home. If you wanna hang out with modern and filthy rich people then I’m sorry dear friend but you’ll need to accept that THIS is their lifestyle and keep your opinions to yourself. If you don’t want to do that then stay away from these type of people. It’s as simple as that.
<<Once girl told me that her brother told her ke pakistani larkian bohat kharab ho gheyeen hain, he had seen many pakistani girls in a disco, my reply was kya tumahara bhai wahan namaz parne gheya tha?>>
Same case maybe with Tamer…
CM, A lecture namely on ‘manners’ directed at Tamer, that too coming from a person quoting * “I dont trust anything that bleeds for 5 days and doesnt die” - South Park* is an irony indeed!
Lastly regarding your question, I believe Changez has attended to that already. Therefore, guppies, let me rephrase it for clarity sake. **The dilemma is not just the piercing; it’s the atrocious displaying of it in public. **
Most profound **Hiccup**, If you sling mud at someone which in turn is thrown right back at you, then of course it will always be bitter to digest the taste of your own medicine. Take care!
**Saima NYC**, Homosexuality, has been in boarding houses since centuries in many parts of the world, Pakistan being one of it. It should not come as a shock to the readers here. Being from upper class, middle class or lower class makes no difference at all. Evil transcends time and space. Homosexuality has existed back in the times of prophets as well. The civilization existing in the time of Hazrath Luth A.S was destroyed by Allah’s will, by the mere fact that they were guilty of this hideous crime. Therefore we can’t just blame the west. Its human nature to satisfy their endless desires of such dreadful notions.
**Sahar**, no doubt that we all have futures that we are uncertain of. We should for the very least have our priorities straightened out. However to keep things clear here, I believe you personally wouldn’t prefer a b-b stud or a tattoo. Therefore, it doesn’t bother you seeing others going for it, although the ‘flaunting’ part of it annoys you no less. Correct?! But you might change your mind altogether in the future, for who knows right? Oh and about quoting Shakespeare, since in the case of Hamlet it was a decision based on life and death, for you I’ll rephrase it, “to pierce or not to pierce,” there, now its relevant to the thread. As far as my opinion is concerned, its obvious, I disapprove of the trend. Last, but not the least, I’m demanding to know what guppies think that where the line should be drawn in case of such trends for our desi youths?
**Diya,** The dilemma is why youths especially of Pakistan, have to select the most obnoxious trends for themselves, and over look the other qualities of the western world. What’s next, youths wanting to imitate the Goths?
I can relate to your horror about the sleeveless females back home. Yar but there is worse, esp if u see a wrinkly aunty dressed in a floral summer dress, showing knee caps and worse while ordering a sandwich at the fast food joints. It makes the strongest of guts go Eeeek! The ultimate shocker I witnessed last year was when I spotted a mid twenties desi girl in a denim mini skirt at a cafe’ 
No! The point of this thread is not to bash Lahori girls but rather to specify your approval or vice versa on the increasing peculiar trends. I highlighted Lahore because, I spend most of my time there during my visit. As I said to Zulfiqar above that, *** The point really is not just Lahore, the entire state of Pakistan is diseased with this fad. The only paradox is that in low key cities its done under the covers or either ppl don’t acknowledge themselves of what goes on under their noses ***. Therefore, I would like our fellow guppies to specify where should the line be drawn? Or none of you care what goes on in our society anymore, because its all well and good?
C-Angel, what makes you think it’d take only a guy to criticize on such scenarios, That too a ‘Muslim” guy precisely? Are you implying any other guy/girl without bringing the religion norms in, have no right to do so? Do we have to drag in specifically Islam to deplore an issue that one may think not appropriate? Yes, without any doubt, I agree with you that it’s inappropriate as a Muslim to strut around ‘ghair mahrems’ in skimpy clothing. However, are we utterly lost without the guidelines of religious norms as a civilization otherwise?
Oh and btw, a person doesn’t necessarily has to lead a congregational prayer at a private disco to stumble upon these youths. Just visit the subway (esp’ Defense), or pizza hut (after midnight) or hang out in the new “Coffee Tea & Company” café on a Saturday night, in Lahore to spot girls in their outrageous attires. Or visit a boutique where u see millions of these youths reaching out for the scanty outfits. Tip: Just be a sharp observer and you will learn a lot!
Don’t mess with me woman! 
I don’t want to see you crying later that you weren’t forewarned
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Tamer: *
**CM, A lecture namely on ‘manners’ directed at Tamer, that too coming from a person quoting * "I dont trust anything that bleeds for 5 days and doesnt die" - South Park is an irony indeed!
Lastly regarding your question, I believe Changez has attended to that already. Therefore, guppies, let me rephrase it for clarity sake. *The dilemma is not just the piercing; it’s the atrocious displaying of it in public. *
[/quote]
A statement of reality. So firstly you have a no problem with the piercings rather that they are displayed. Man if you have such a problem. Avert your eyes. After all a pious man like you shouldnt be looking in that general area esp when it concerns women. Or you arent familiar with the female anatomy. Or maybe is it that you want to get familiar, but have been rejected in all cases?
I am so wondering, if you look at the belly button, do your eyes stray up and down as well?
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Tamer: *
**Sahar*, no doubt that we all have futures that we are uncertain of. We should for the very least have our priorities straightened out.
[/quote]
Sure. I think I do.
[quote]
However to keep things clear here, I believe you personally wouldn’t prefer a b-b stud or a tattoo. Therefore, it doesn’t bother you seeing others going for it, although the ‘flaunting’ part of it annoys you no less. Correct?!
[/quote]
yes the flaunting annoys/bothers/disturbs/worries me because i worry about how we have a tendency to try to gain social acceptance through something superficial such as clothing (or the lack there of). has nothing to do with belly button rings or whatever. it has to do with trying to understand human psychology. i think each of us has a lot to offer, and when weput on an act to "fit in" we trivialize ourselves and our abilities. we are far more interesting and significant than our physical appearance can show.
[quote]
But you might change your mind altogether in the future, for who knows right?
[/quote]
yes.
[quote]
Oh and about quoting Shakespeare, since in the case of Hamlet it was a decision based on life and death, for you I’ll rephrase it, “to pierce or not to pierce,” there, now its relevant to the thread.
[quote]
haha. poor shakespeare. i think we've totally screwed up his meaning by taking that line so out of context. alas.
[quote]
As far as my opinion is concerned, its obvious, I disapprove of the trend. Last, but not the least, I’m demanding to know what guppies think that where the line should be drawn in case of such trends for our desi youths?
[/QUOTE]
i guess i just feel like drawing lines for people doesn't actually teach them how to draw lines for themselves.
[quote]
Man if you have such a problem. Avert your eyes. After all a pious man like you shouldnt be looking in that general area esp when it concerns women.
[/quote]
CM, firstly, for you to generalize that I’m a guy would be blatantly ignorant. Secondly, now it’s obvious that it takes the likes of you to encourage such wacky trends.
[quote]
I am so wondering, if you look at the belly button, do your eyes stray up and down as well?
[/quote]
Lastly, not every person reacts like you while setting their eyes on the female anatomy. Stop being a pervert.