Milad

[Reha]

Princess Fiona, a bidah literally means innovation.

TLK, I agree with you that it is a bidah and all bidahs are considered 'bad' by most of our scholars. But, our scholars have not put a full stop on this bidah because it brings good. What I said about crossing boundaries, I meant if you look the milads in Pakistan/India, they have introduced money, food, set dates, etc.etc.. so many to list. This is why our Ulema have discouraged one to organize such events but in no way they classified this as haram. (You can look up Mufti Taqi Usmani's fatwa on this matter.)

Anyways, I think we've discussed this in the past under "Milad" thread.. and my conclusion is we leave these matters to our scholars.

I dont like the large events where people just go to show off because the point is lost there completely.

I know we should leave it to our scholars but sometimes I feel as if this cannot be that complicated. Or is it just me? I know they are more knowledgable than I but there has to be a reasoning behind all of this? They have access to the same Quran and Hadith we do, correct?

[cricketplaya]

@PSquared

I dont like the large events where people just go to show off because the point is lost there completely.

I know we should leave it to our scholars but sometimes I feel as if this cannot be that complicated. Or is it just me? I know they are more knowledgable than I but there has to be a reasoning behind all of this? They have access to the same Quran and Hadith we do, correct?

Think it this way, we have access to all the English books in the world but are we English professors? all the medicine books but are we doctors? all the math formula but are we mathematicians? the same way, we cannot interpret the Quran and Sunnah the way it has to be, there are many things involved, very complex this is why, we have to follow the scholars and respect them (unfortunately, we have lost all respect for them)

in regard to Milads, I invite you to read the following articles:
Fatwa Regarding Milad
Further Question about Milad

[psyah]

Re: Milad

Peace All

Bid'a is defined differently by differing groups. Some say all bid'a is hell bound, based on a given scriptural reference. Defining it can be tricky.

Most commonly it is translated as innovation, but this cannot be the correct translation.

*"An important distinction is normally made between invention and innovation. Invention is the first occurrence of an idea for a new product or process, while innovation is the first attempt to carry it out into practice" (Fagerberg, 2004: 4)

It is useful, when conceptualizing innovation, to consider whether other words suffice. Invention – the creation of new forms, compositions of matter, or processes – is often confused with innovation. An improvement on an existing form, composition or processes might be an invention, an innovation, both or neither if it is not substantial enough. It can be difficult to differentiate change from innovation.* Wikipedia

Change can take the following forms:

To do something that was at first not done
To stop doing something that is being done
To replace the old thing with a new one in its place

Some innovatory actions were taken by our own Sahabah, but the purists argue that the definition of bid'a is any new matter after the first 4 khaliphs.

My understanding of bid'a is something that brings about a change in intent from the holisitic creedal disposition of the spirit of Islam.

In which case if not clearly defined 'milad' can be such a bid'a. However, if practices are curtailed so misunderstanding of 'Islamic intent' does not become prevalent then those practices are not bid'a (or bid'a hasana) and thus can be entertained.

Sending durood is not a new matter so it is not a total invention. By standing up and doing so in a jamaat style could 'alter the intent' of durood as an act of 'ibadah' to honour and praise Muhammad (SAW), in which case it is 'danger area' and could lead to shirk. However, if merely durood is sent so Allah (SWT) can bless the prophet Muhammad (SAW) then this is valid and acceptable.

The two main schools either choose to do an act in the hope of increasing 'iman, (explorists) or choose not to indulge in new things in the fear of going astray from the original intent (cautionists) ... may they both have their reward. Ameen.

[Code_Red]

We do recite durood in a loud voice but isnt it still Allah ka naam and zikr? How can that be wrong TLK? There is no shirk involved here or anything particularly forbidden about it. Or is there?

Also, am I correct in saying that there were actual poems and songs sung during that time too, no? If its true, then the only difference is the language. Isnt the DUFF allowed in Islam? Why would it be allowed then?

Also, my mom has the same belief and is very particular about the type of naat she chooses to recite. Some go a little too far. Its always in a female only setting and she also does what is called bayaan.

There is nothing wrong in saying salam at the end of milad

And there is nothing wrong in milaad gathering either, if it does not involve shirkya activities, obviously.

Understading biddah or biddat is quite difficult as people have very personalized definations, each to suit their own belief system or way of life.

In reality , and to put it bluntly, every innovation in religion islam, which does not have an arab origin is biddah.And all innovations with arab origin is perfect part of Islam.

Although Islam shuns all kind of racism and ethnic devide, still Arabs feel that Islam should be understood only through their 'exclusive' and strict interpretation sanctioned by their schoolars. This is a kind of superiority complex and you can notice such behaviour widespread among arabs

People of subcontinent often have more love and devotion for prophet of islam and his family and follower than contemporary arabs. And Arbi folks find it strange so they forbid any and every such expression of emotion and devotion.

So, the follower of these authorative arab influenced scholars consider these innocent acts of devotion and love for prophet as biddah.

[Gina]

In the Arab world they consider it wrong to sing/hum any tunes that have the names of Allah or when u give salams to our Prophet pbuh. There are different versions of the Darud that shud be recited as many times as one wants, but it shudn't be sung that's the only objection people have here..

Same thing with naats, people sing it to tunes (at times even bollywood songs) and that is considered wrong.. the only way to praise Allah swt is mentioned in the Quran.

[cricketplaya]

Re: Milad

Not all arabs though, only the ones that have been brought up with the 'salafi/wahabi' mentality and they are only a minority.

[Gina]

You will never hear of a Milad in Saudi Arabia.. or even Dubai. It's only the Pakistani expats living here that do it occassionally. Women recite in the privacy of their own homes, and blv it's wrong to recite anything and keeping count. They blv that u shud always utter praises for Allah and the Prophet but neither keep count or hum them to any tune.

[cricketplaya]

Re: Milad

^ Yes you will not find it in the open but that doesn't mean there are Arabs who do not do it. Just like the work of Tabligh, you will not find it in the open but it STILL goes on in Saudi Arabia because they know it's HAQ.
There are still traditional arabs left.

[Gina]

CP, I'm half-arab myself =) I go to the aqiqah's/weddings.. deaths.. ramadan gatherings. They don't blv in "naats" or singing praises or humming them. They recite the darud exactly as it was given.. and take the names of Allah pausing inbetween. It was a huge debate since Sami Yousef began singing naats, also influenced by Pakistani's =)

[cricketplaya]

@Gina

CP, I'm half-arab myself =) I go to the aqiqah's/weddings.. deaths.. ramadan gatherings. They don't blv in "naats" or singing praises or humming them. They recite the darud exactly as it was given.. and take the names of Allah pausing inbetween. It was a huge debate since Sami Yousef began singing naats, also influenced by Pakistani's =)

There is no tradition of nasheed/naat in your culture then? The scholars say that it's been happening since the time of rasoolullah (pbuh)..

[Gina]

No one sings naat to tunes CP... I don't argue abt religion and hence I won't each to his own =)

[Lusi]

Re: Milad

It is only wrong when it involves shirk. As far as naats and daroods are not involving shrik, there is nothing wrong in them. Different people have different way of connecting with Allah and if there are people who can find spiritual connection in milad then hail to them. They are not doing anything wrong as far as it doesn not involve shirk. Oh and the tradition of naats came from the time of Prophet. When prophet came to madina, girls of (ansar)madina welcomed Prophet pbuh by singing a naat while playing duff. Ta'ala Al Badru Alayna is like one of the oldest naats from the time of Prophet pbuh.

[cricketplaya]

@Gina

No one sings naat to tunes CP... I don't argue abt religion and hence I won't each to his own =)

tunes is a different issue altogether but im talking about just naat/nasheed without any 'tunes'.

[Reha]

Re: Milad

When we say tunes, are we talking instruments or tarz?

[Lusi]

Re: Milad

tarz...

[ahmet2910]

Re: Milad

THE GENERAL IDEA BEHIND READING SALAM IS
AS I KNOW IS TO BELIEVE THAT RASOOL ALLAH BY HIMSELF HAS ARRIVED
SO EVERYBODY STANDS UP TO HONOUR HIM AND READ SALAM

BUT THIS IS NOT THE CASE
RASOOL ALLAH WAS A HUMAN BEING
AND HE IS DEAD
SO
TO ASSUME THAT HIS ROOH HAS ARRIVED
IS NOT PROPER AND TOTALLY WRONG

[Reha]

Re: Milad

Im not sure I agree because I keep hearing "Huzoor ko Salaam bhejte hein"...that means we are sending Salaam to him...he isnt present or his rooh...

[cricketplaya]

@PSquared

Im not sure I agree because I keep hearing "Huzoor ko Salaam bhejte hein"...that means we are sending Salaam to him...he isnt present or his rooh...

some do believe he's present in their gatherings.....

[Ansoon]

Re: Milad

I am going to post a question, forgive me if i sound dumb..

instead of the salaam part at the end of milad.. why can't the mehfil be finished by simply reciting the durood shareef? which we know by heart since we read it in our namaz and which is clear of any doubt that it might be bidat..

[hareem01]

@Gina

You will never hear of a Milad in Saudi Arabia.. or even Dubai. It’s only the Pakistani expats living here that do it occassionally. Women recite in the privacy of their own homes, and blv it’s wrong to recite anything and keeping count. They blv that u shud always utter praises for Allah and the Prophet but neither keep count or hum them to any tune.

Mawlid in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia

So what do you think?