Re: Danish paper rejected Jesus cartoons, but its ok to bash Islam
You have been given legitimate answers...it's just not the answer you want to hear.
No, I haven't. "We don't support these people" doesn't answer why you don't burn buildings and come out in the thousands like you do when someone draws a cartoon.
Re: Danish paper rejected Jesus cartoons, but its ok to bash Islam
You think by depicting muhammad PBUH as a terrorist, you are within your rights of free speech! Why would it be a crime then to deny a holocaust in some of the European countries. Even Freedom of speech has its limitations and the right should not be taken to such extremes where it incites a group of people. So if one excercise his freedom of speech by verbally threatening his neighbour or by bullying an employee or by drawing a picture depicting POPE John Paul as a Gay sodomizer, would you then be within your rights of "free speech"?
Re: Danish paper rejected Jesus cartoons, but its ok to bash Islam
the hypocrisy of this new twist to this saga is really unbelivable the whole premise of the Danes and the racist islamphobes from the US who post threads here" was freedom of speech" now that that story has been exposed as a hoax with this revelation that jesus cartoons where rejected because they would offend many people has simply taken they argument of the Danes and there racist supporters and slapped them on the face with it!
Re: Danish paper rejected Jesus cartoons, but its ok to bash Islam
The limitless freedom of press/speech arguement is invalid with or without the Jesus cartoons. The violent protests are simply confirming the image of muslims and are giving even more publicity to the cartoons.
Re: Danish paper rejected Jesus cartoons, but its ok to bash Islam
No, but somehow they seem to reconcile their acts with their theology just fine and dandy. I'll let you worry about the implications of that.
The fact is, I do chant God is great and do not kill people.
I do not proclaim killing innocents is a religious duty, yet I am religious.
I do not name children after terrorists.
You have a serious problem with generalizing pepole based on the acts of a few.
Whether the priests acted according to their thelogy or not is irrelevent. The point is, there are people who belong to the same social grouping. Why are they spared your standard of blame? Because they don't invoke God? That's stupid.
The point was, even if the priests invoked God's name and what not...it does not in any way shape or form implicate those who are associated simply by faith.
It’s disgusting to think otherwise.
How many people were murdered in the name of freedom and democracy just in the past few years? How may people raped and tortured? Apply the standard to yourself for a change.
Re: Danish paper rejected Jesus cartoons, but its ok to bash Islam
The protests started back in Spetember, and were for the most part a) non-violent and b) late in comming - given that ample time was there for the Danes to start a dialog.
They flatly refused. THEN the protest started.
Re: Danish paper rejected Jesus cartoons, but its ok to bash Islam
You? Okay, I can play that game too, murderer.
YOU murder left right and center, and I haven't heard you say a peep from you about that.
Generalizations suck, don't they? I'd say they're rather libelous.
To you it's simply a cartoon. If you wish to be obtuse, and pretend that this is no ordinary cartoon...that's willful ignorance on your part.
Now you do some work. Tell us what you want to see. An end to the protests? Fine, keep harping on that some furniture was burnt. Let's ignore the fact that by far and wide the protests were peaceful.
You've dodged nearly all my queries on the subject, and it's clear your not after discourse...you're just pontificating.
So, where would you draw the line?
Re: Danish paper rejected Jesus cartoons, but its ok to bash Islam
Islamophobe logic
Some Americans murder.
Some Americans murder for their country.
Seminole is an american
Thefore, Seminole is a murderer who murders in the name of his country.
Unless, he states otherwise when explicitly challenged.
Nice.
Re: Danish paper rejected Jesus cartoons, but its ok to bash Islam
Query away, I am dodging nothing.
You only read what you want to. I am not suggesting Muslims need or should have to aplogize for the actions of extremists. They don't represent you point of view, fine. I completely understand. I don't feel the need to apologize for much of anything people in my country or religion does either. I don't think that just because someone does something horrible in the name of Islam it has anything to do with true followers or any group or individuals. Except....
IF you are going to get pissed at non-Muslims who disrespect your religion, you should not be hypocritical and let Muslims who grossly defame your prophet and religion also feel your rage.
If you did they would become ostracized, and not be associated at all with Islam the way they are now, and the whole reason someone drew these insulting cartoons would not exist.
The selective rage is baffling.
Re: Danish paper rejected Jesus cartoons, but its ok to bash Islam
[quote]
IF you are going to get pissed at non-Muslims who disrespect your religion, you should not be hypocritical and let Muslims who grossly defame your prophet and religion also feel your rage.
The selective rage is baffling.
[/quote]
What is baffling is your inability to comprehend the situation. You make distinction between violent/non-violent Muslims. It is just violent Muslims who bring bad name of all Muslims. Obviously, they represent two different faces of Islam.
Yet you support people who publish caricatures of the VERY BASIS where ALL Muslims converge, whether they are violent or not.
If you want to condemn violent Muslims then condemn THEM. Do not include non-violent Muslims in your condemnation.
I am sure you are a decent person. And so I want you to realize that you are supporting a mischief. People who published those cartoons were abusive mischief-makers. They should not get the support of decent people.
Re: Danish paper rejected Jesus cartoons, but its ok to bash Islam
Just read the article... unbelievable!
Speaks a lot about the cultural and religious sensitivity of the paper and those involved with it. The newspaper owes Muslims a serious apology.
Re: Danish paper rejected Jesus cartoons, but its ok to bash Islam
[quote]
IF you are going to get pissed at non-Muslims who disrespect your religion, you should not be hypocritical and let Muslims who grossly defame your prophet and religion also feel your rage.
[/quote]
They are criminals. Period. Is murdering in the name of Islam defaming the Prophet or the faith? Nope. That's a bit of sophistry I'm not falling for. If that were the case, than your notions of freedom and all other values that underpin your very way of life are under serious attack from your very own army.
I don't think you honestly subscribe to that view. For some reason, your values and all you hold dear seems to be immune from the killings committed by your nation. I wonder why...
Your assumption that I don't feel rage at terrorists is misplaced. That I don't chase my arse or fetch sticks on your command seems to make you doubt that. Go figure.
When a terrorist commits murder, that's all I see. I don't care what religion they invoke. I'm smart enough to see past that. Apparently, you feel the same way, as per this quote:
[quote]
I don't think that just because someone does something horrible in the name of Islam it has anything to do with true followers or any group or individuals. ....
[/quote]
And yet you throw in an exception about not showing outrage at something that has nothing to do with us.
We were shocked, confused, and in DENIAL about 9-11...our reaction may not have been the best. We distanced ourselves from it. We want nothing to do with it. That's hardly spite, that's hardly condoning the act. The flaw in the logic here is that if outrage is not manifest outward, it must mean approval. This binary thinking is wrong.
[quote]
If you did they would become ostracized, and not be associated at all with Islam the way they are now, and the whole reason someone drew these insulting cartoons would not exist.
[/quote]
The reason someone drew the cartoons is because the publisher wanted inciting pictures of the Prophet (pbuh). This linking to the post 9-11 reaction is your addition to the discourse. And it really has nothing to do with it at all.
Outrage at a personal attack is understandable. There's no denial on the part of the perpetrators of the insult...no meaningful or rational way to distance themselves from the hate.
Outrage at an act that was immediately pinned on Muslims, not just terrorists, but Muslims in general...sorry, but human instinct is trepidation.
Outrage at a lack of outrage over violence, while staying mum about violence your own nation is perpetrating...sorry...doesn't wash.
Re: Danish paper rejected Jesus cartoons, but its ok to bash Islam
Well said picoico
Re: Danish paper rejected Jesus cartoons, but its ok to bash Islam
The US army is not calling itself the army of god, or holy warriors, or the army of christ. It does not issue religious edicts. It does not justify its actions by verses in the bible. It does not call for a holy war. It does not call for the killing of non-believers. It does not want to establish a theocratic state. The military training does not include watching videos of "warriors" to the chants of bible verses. So, if murdering in the name of Islam and the prophet of Islam is not defaming to your religious sentiments, there is little wonder why people consider Islam to be extremist. That being the case, the cartoons, over which there have been killings, are quite accurate.
Living in a free society means havng to live with people that want to insult, defame just for the sake of the act. An interesting thing to note, since you say the publisher published simply to insult, this morning NPR had the cleric who brought to the attention of the Muslim world the cartoons. He said he sent a "dossier" to Egypt and Lebanon. An interesting thing about the "dossier" is that it contained pictures, which he addmitted, were not published by any paper and which were more "insulting" than what was published. Now what does that say? Some Islamic cleric who migrated to a country, does not want to live by their rules, fakes a "dossier" and gets Muslims half way around the world worked up with inflamatory lies. No, why would he do that? Now what are people going to think about this "outrage". The more pressing issue here is that anything and everything Islamic is out of bounds and Muslims are victims. There is a bestseller book called the Da Vinci Code and a movie coming out, it "insults" the very basic tenants of Christianity..but you don't see the "West" in flames. The History channel frequently air programs regarding inconsistencies in the bible, no embassies are burnt. An "artist" makes art by putting a cross in a jar of urine, no museums are set ablaze. The "West" has a tradition of mocking, insulting, defaming, degrading, and inquiring....that is what the free world allows. Nothing should be out of bounds. Muslims who live in the West must abide by that and respect the freedom that grants....Korans may be burnt, pictures drawn that is what happens in a free society. Of course holocaust denial is always brought up. "Why can't we deny the holocaust"? Why is blashpemy outlawed in the Islamic world? The holocaust is a truth the West does not want to forget. At the same time, when the leader of Iran calls for the wipping out of Israel or that the holocaust is a lie, the Iranian embassy in Norway is not set ablaze.
Re: Danish paper rejected Jesus cartoons, but its ok to bash Islam
^ the hypocrisy continues keep dodging and spinning the facts!
Re: Danish paper rejected Jesus cartoons, but its ok to bash Islam
Speaks a lot about the cultural and religious sensitivity of the paper and those involved with it. The newspaper owes Muslims a serious apology.
Indeed.
Re: Danish paper rejected Jesus cartoons, but its ok to bash Islam
I really don't wan't to go far just look at your extremist President. He thinks God is behind his foreign Policy. According to Martin E. Marty “The problem isn’t with Bush’s sincerity, but with his evident conviction that he’s doing God’s will.”
A President who launched a War on muslims in Iraq based on WMD's and is responsible for the genocide of millions of muslims allover the world, thinks that God is behind his muderous decisions. if US army sent by bush to murder inncoents in Iraq is not army of god then please elaborate what it is?
I dont know which pathetic society you live in, but wherever I have lived people have always given importance to respecting each other. I am confident almost all countries have LAWS regarding defamation and Harassemnt and there are heavy penalties associated with it.
Re: Danish paper rejected Jesus cartoons, but its ok to bash Islam
I dont know which pathetic society you live in, but wherever I have lived people have always given importance to respecting each other. I am confident almost all countries have LAWS regarding defamation and Harassemnt and there are heavy penalties associated with it.
In a theocracy, Islam and its prophet may be held in high regard. I live in the US, and I can blaspheme all I want. You're welcome to come here and join in on the blaspheming. Perhaps you can start a new chapter of the holocaust denial society and meet next to the flat earth society. Either way, I bet you live in some kaffir country and I bet I can say anything I want about any religion there and nothing will happen to me.
Re: Danish paper rejected Jesus cartoons, but its ok to bash Islam
If you want to insult peoples belief just shows how backward and shallow you really are instead of debating it in a mature manner you think its ok to sink to the level of a worm and say its great that we live in a society where people can swear, insult and make derogatory remarks about anybody and this not a problem, well as you can see it is a problem but arrogant people never see furthur than the end of thier noses even if chaos reigns!
Danish papers decision to print cartoons was “stupid” - Finland Foreign Minister
More states, including those close to Denmark are realizing the Danish stupidity.
http://virtual.finland.fi/stt/showarticle.asp?intNWSAID=11711&group=Politics
Jyllands-Posten’s decision to print cartoons was “stupid” -Finnish FM
The Finnish Minister for Foreign Affairs, Erkki Tuomioja (soc dem), told the Thursday issue of Finnish weekly Seura that Danish daily Jyllands-Posten had acted stupidly when it chose to print the cartoons of the prophet Muhammad in September. “In the media, a certain degree of common sense would be good, though I do not advocate self-censorship. The way Jyllands-Posten acted was stupid,” Mr Tuomioja told Seura. He denies having told the Danish government to apologise. “I only stated that an apology would not be an affront to free speech. Religious sentiments are not to be offended.” Mr Tuomioja added that it was not the government’s business to interfere in an individual newspaper’s practices.