mazhab nahin sikhaata aapas me bair....

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Saif-ul-Islam: *
I’m no scholar. Someone told me that the addition “*allahummu wali man walaah wa adi manadaah
” is only something people made up but if that is not the case then please tell me, thanks.
[/QUOTE]

first you are the one who brought it up and then claim to be dhaef and then accuse people of making up stuff.... If its not the true hadith prove me that its dhaef and on what bases... but oh well someone told you... is enough for you... wah jee mullah jee wah

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Saif-ul-Islam: *
And it just occurred to me that as for “*man kuntu mawlah fa Ali mawlah
” when the Prophet (peace be upon him) said that he did not give any time frame. So even if he did mean leader, which I don’t think he did but even if it is interpreted that way it doesn’t necessarily mean right after him.

[/QUOTE]

Oh wow another lame excuse to defend your so khaleefa.... did Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. mention a time frame for it... if Prophet raised him and announced it and made people give alligance.... what else is it supposed to mean... but no you have to cook some lame excuses... on top of it without any justification... wah jee wah... wat a good extermist mullah you are.....

[QUOTE]

*Originally posted by Saif-ul-Islam: *
And why would I call a hadith weak just because it doesn’t fit my interest? My only interest is to please Allah the Exalted and follow the truth even if that goes against my current beliefs. I have changed sects a few times when I found my beliefs and practices were not in conformity with the Quran and Sunnah and I am certain that what I currently believe is the truth.
[/QUOTE]

wow and what a good way to please Allah... by respecting his enemies...subhallah

[QUOTE]
we do believe Islam was complete when this verse was revealed the Quran and Sunnah were complete for the Muslims to follow. So what if Ahadith were collected after the Prophet (peace be upon him)’s death? Even the Quran was put together in book form after the Prophet (peace be upon him) had died by those who you call hypocrites. I think you should stick to following just your Imams, these hypocrite Caliph's might have added or omitted something from the Quran too
[/QUOTE]

because quran is perfect... and Allah is the guard... suprisingly Prophet Mohammad left with a perfect book but not a perfect source of sunnah.... why didnt he do that... if he could leave us with a perfect book I am sure he would have given us a source of his correct sunnah so we don't end up in sects...but why didnt it happen....... and thats why i said he left quran and ahleybait... ahleybait who were there to defend islam since the first day and in karbala when your so called islam was in the hands of evil khaleefa like yazeed.....

but let me ask you questions i posted earlier...

quote:

“And whoever contradicts and opposes the Messenger (Muhammad SAW) after the right path has been shown clearly to him, and follows other than the believers' way. We shall keep him in the path he has chosen, and burn him in Hell - what an evil destination.” (Quran 4:115)

and didnt Abu Bakr opposed Holy Prophet P.B.U.H. by displeasing Fatima Zehra SA. wasnt that order of Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. that whoever makes Fatima angry makes me angry... why didnt he follow so called order order to full fill his greed compare to not dipleasing Bibi Fatima SA... if nauzubillah Bibi Fatima Zehra SA was not righteous why would Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. give such a hadith... so lost people your own believes contradicts each other.

quote:

......which Allah will forgive. Ali (may Allah be pleased with him) forgave her and others who were on the opposing side, he made sure that she left the battle ground safely.

any refernces......well its up Allah to forgive but any refernces when did Ali forgave her......

**.... I am glad atleat you said Hazrat Ali forgave her and not vice versa implying you believed she was wrong and needed forgiveness from Allah and Ali.....I am sure when you made the statements of Hazrat Ali forgiving her... it must be in your books and not some made up stuff.... \B]

quote:

And like I said before some of the Sahaabah (may Allah be pleased with them) did make mistakes and have some shortcomings for which they repented but their good deeds and sacrifices in the way of Islam outweighed them by far.

and how do you know they overweighed or they mgiht have repententred, but its Allah who give repentence.

those were some questions i raised earlier... but i don't know if its worth asking you again looking at the things a mullah like you have to preach first say some hadith and when it doesnt fit right to your interest make it dhaef without any justifications.

and let me remind you Imam Hassan didnt just give khilafat away he did sullah on conditions .... he just didnt trust him for khilafat like that... go read the conditions before cooking up excuses for a person who in the light of your hadith is an enemy of Allah

and one more question

care to tell me who are these people who according to whom according to their own believes a person should be enemy of Allah and they still respect him, and who are these person...who supported this enemy in the battle against Maulla Ali and then came in big numbers against Imam Hussain......

and isnt it some extermist sunni mullah's who wants to kill shias because they don't supporst some so called enemies of Allah.....

Mullah jee you denied the ayat i quoted abou the wives of Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. but didnt clear it up and yourself claimed they were jealous wives but didnt clarify who the ayat is then for...... which two wives.. or let me guess someone told you that without any references and the great proud extermist mullah you are you started preaching others.

[quote]
Mullah jee you denied the ayat i quoted abou the wives of Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. but didnt clear it up and yourself claimed they were jealous wives but didnt clarify who the ayat is then for...... which two wives.. or let me guess someone told you that without any references and the great proud extermist mullah you are you started preaching others.
[/quote]

for crying out loud!!! when did I say it wasn't about Aisha and Hafsah?

Your reasons for Hassan handing over the Caliphate to Moawiyya are lame!!

He wouldn't have trusted a disbeliever, disobedient, sinner and tyrant to have control over the Muslim empire...

I don’t believe anyone except the Prophets was Infallible… the Sahaabah did make mistakes unknowingly but that does not grant you the right to slander them…

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Saif-ul-Islam: *
I don’t believe anyone except the Prophets was Infallible… the Sahaabah did make mistakes unknowingly but that does not grant you the right to slander them…
[/QUOTE]

Ahleybait are quran witness about their purity, its souls were pure.....
During the mubahila... they were the one Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. took when quran asked to curse on the liars... and apparently no one else even came forward to join

you claim quran and sunnah is enough for us... then why when those people came and Prophet preached them from teaching of qurans for dayzz and they were not convinced and as far as sunnah is concerned Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. was their himself... what can be a better sunnah then that... and why did they accept islam when on mubahila when Prophet Mohamamad P.B.U.H. came as quran ordered with Hazrat Ali, Imam Hassan, Imam Hussain and Bibi Fatima Zehra, and when they did they were convinced... why did Prophet took his wives too..... what was so special about these ahleybait that no one even dared to join Prophet and theydid... thats how much they are... why when quran and sunanh was enough these people werenot convinced, and when they saw these pure ahleybait they were.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Saif-ul-Islam: *

for crying out loud!!! when did I say it wasn't about Aisha and Hafsah?
[/QUOTE]

My bad...sorry about that

but I am still waiting on your refences to other questions i asked....

and may be Imam Hassan was not like todayzz sunni mullahs to whom if someone is against their sect… they should be killed… He might have done sullah because there might be muslims in huge numbers on the other side who too and he probably didnt want to do blood shed of so many muslims you can guess how many people came against Imam Hussain in kerbala and on Imam Hussain side there were only 72 people including his sahabis and family and his 6 month old son…who sacrificed their lives in the way of Allah, may be Imam Hassan didnt do a war in medina because it could have killed a lot of muslims and people might have labeled him to greedy of power rather than looking at his nice intentions and as we can see there are people to whom according to their own hadith’s mawhiya was the enemy of Allah but they respect him and just to support their luv for the enemy of Allah this hadith was used to justify the interpretation of the word mawla but then it had to be declared dhaef without any references tojustify their love for the enemies of Allah and the battle you are talking about that was against kafirs or mushriqeen or what so ever…

Infact this act should be seen as tolerism in islam rather then pointing fingers…
and as far as Imam Ali is concerned go and read these links

http://al-islam.org/nahjul/5.htm
http://al-islam.org/nahjul/66.htm

i am not going to copy paste because you don’t like it. feel free to read it at your convenience.

One more questions along with some other refences I have asked before:
whats suprises me is … everyone who became khaleefa is regarded as Ameer ul Momineen by sunni’s then why dont they regard yazeed as a khaleefa, his father fought against Imam Ali ( which based in the light of the hadith you quoted earlier makes him the enemy of Allah) and is regarded as nauzubillah Ameer ul Momineen. why not yazeed then…to me its the history of Karbala that unveiled the face of what happend to Islam when they left dar-e-ahleybait and started electing their own khaleefas. It came in the hands on power greedy people..

Don't wanna offend you houston but i am genuinely curious about one thing. The prayer timings. I know that at times Hazrat Muhammed (PBUH) said them a bit late but there was always a reason and most of the time He prayed it the way Allah established it. As far as i know (and i admit not much that i know) shia sect does combines the prayer deliberately. I am unable to understand that. because if we make it 3 times then whats the point of saying 5 prayers a day. Few more question i need to know. Hopefully you will help me understand. Again i say i have no intention to offendyou in any way.

go and read in the link… this issue has been discussed in detail in a debate held between sunni and shia scholars in peshawar… not only this but a lot of other concerns you might have you might find answers to it… and as far as i have heard at the end of the debate sunni ulema converted into shias…

http://www.al-islam.org/peshawar/toc.html

its under the first hearding of the Part 1.

Hope that might answer your questions brother.

Armugal,

Murdering another is never an answer to grevience IMHO. Only prolongs the grief.

I don't know what the answer is ......except maybe that there should be more of you visiting and helping and less instigators and bad teachers...

Did you ask why?

How can a human behave in way that Allah forbids and believe that its right?

killing is never a solution for any problem....

when Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was rejected and ridiculed by the people of Mecca, he started taking his prophetic mission out of the city....
he went to the city of Taif, to convey to them the message of Allah, and he was mocked and harassed by them....
they let behind him young lads who wud make fun of him, call him names and hit him with stones....
so that his shoes were filled with blood that flowed from his body....

and when finally, being driven out of the city in such a ruthless manner, he sat down for a rest, the ArchAngel Gabriel decended with God's command and said "O Muhammad, Allah has seen what these people have done with you and has sent with me this angel so u may command him to punish those who have dealt with u in such a harsh manner"....
so the angel accompanying Gabriel said "shall i crush them between two mountains over them to punish them"....
and Muhammad replied "no, i dont want to hurt them, all i seek is to ask Allah that He may guide their offsprings to the right path"....

Muhammad was sent as "rehmatun-lil-aalameen" (mercy for all the worlds) and we as his followers r supposed to be the same....
endow mercy on all the people and hope that one day they will understand....
if not them, their children, if not then the generation to come after them....
by killing we will only drive people farther away....

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Houston_kah_Don: *

No problem, wish these people can take the issue seriously... Killing others is not a joke... nor does it reflect the true teachings of Islam.
Islam never promoted terrorism, its the Akhlaq of Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. that inspried people.... this lady used to throw stones at Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. and one day she didnt so propeht Mohamamd P.B.U.H. inquried and found out she was sick and he went to ayadat for that lady and she liked it so much that she accepted Islam...those are the true teachings of Islam. no where did it promote terrorism as some sunni mullahs do these days, Allah is the judge of us all in the day of judgement. Let him be the judge rather then declaring others kafir and killing them... doesnt reflect the teachings of Prophet Mohamamd P.B.U .H. atleast.
[/QUOTE]

An example of loving kindness.

And a lesson on forgiveness.

And I would bet that when Mohammad prayed ayadat his intention was not conversion but in heart.

it was during one of the battles that Ali bin Abu Talib (ra) caught up with one of the enemies and threw him down and as he was going to kill him the man spat on Ali's face....
Ali got up and let him go....
the man asked "why did u let me go when u cud have easily killed me?"....
he said "if i had killed u after u spat on my face i wud not have killed u just becase u have rejected Allah and His messenger, but also it would have included my personal revenge (because u spat on my face), and i am not allowed to kill for personal revenge"....

the enemy was so moved that he became a muslim....
and who knows how many more people became muslims because of this man....
but if Ali had killed him on the spot what wud have he achieved????

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by armughal: *
it was during one of the battles that Ali bin Abu Talib (ra) caught up with one of the enemies and threw him down and as he was going to kill him the man spat on Ali's face....
Ali got up and let him go....
the man asked "why did u let me go when u cud have easily killed me?"....
he said "if i had killed u after u spat on my face i wud not have killed u just becase u have rejected Allah and His messenger, but also it would have included my personal revenge (because u spat on my face), and i am not allowed to kill for personal revenge"....

the enemy was so moved that he became a muslim....
and who knows how many more people became muslims because of this man....
but if Ali had killed him on the spot what wud have he achieved????
[/QUOTE]

Would have achieved nothing.

But I have a question. What if the man didn't spit in his face?

Then what?

Would killing the man have be forgivable?

Would Allah have allowed the killing of the man because the man rejected Allah and his messenger?

What if the man rejected his messenger but not Allah?

What of mercy?

Apolgies. I missed your previous post about mercy, and perhaps I should read it again.

there is a limit to everything....

u cant let a serial killer run free after he has been arrested just out of mercy....
and as Quran says "fitnah" is worse than murder....
so u cant let a person who causes "fitnah" to run free....

and dont u think asking for mercy in a battlefield is next to unimaginable????

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by AvgAmericanGirl: *

Would have achieved nothing.

But I have a question. What if the man didn't spit in his face?

Then what?

Would killing the man have be forgivable?

Would Allah have allowed the killing of the man because the man rejected Allah and his messenger?

What if the man rejected his messenger but not Allah?

What of mercy?

Apolgies. I missed your previous post about mercy, and perhaps I should read it again.
[/QUOTE]

mughal bahi correct me if I am wrong but as far as i remember the man you are talking to Is Umar Ibne Abduwad and the incident was of Battle of Khandaq.... the person crossed khandaq in his intentions to kill muslims and lead a war against them and when Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. asked his companions it was only Hazrat Ali who had guts to come forward and face him and the reason Hazrat Ali A.S. didnt kill him when he spat on his face was because he didnt wanted to include his revenge.

Avg sister the man came there with intentions to range a war and kill fellow muslims, thats why he crossed the khandaq, if he was killed it was an act of defence isnt it?

i dont recall which battle or who the man was....
i just remember it was Hazrat Ali (ra)....

i just have to say one simple thing, SUNNI WORD COMES FROM THE WORD SUNNAT,

SUNNAT = WHAT THE PROPHET DID

SUNNI = THE FOLLOWER OF WHAT HAZRAT MUHAMMAD(peace be upon him did)

U CANT BE A MUSLIM IF U DONT FOLLOW WHAT HE DID.

shia on the other hand comes from shiyani ali, which means from the group of ali.

IF UR NOT FROM THE GROUP OF HAZRAT ALI UR NOT MUSLIM EITHER

ALL THE SECTS ARE DERIVED FROM AVERAGE PEOPLE EVERYTHING THESE PEOPLE SAY IS NOT FACT, GO TO BOTH PLACES JUST BE A MUSLIM. RESERACH BEFORE YOU BELIVE FORGET THE CROWD. BE A MUSLIM, BE SHIYA AND SUNII. LAST BUT NOT LEAST

YA RASUL ALLLAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

YAAAAAAAAAAAAA ALI MADAD

Just a friendly note: Please don't use CAPS in your replies. I would appreciate that a great deal. Thank you - Samarra.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by robby: *

YA RASUL ALLLAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

YAAAAAAAAAAAAA ALI MADAD
[/QUOTE]

now thats definitely not allowed in either sunni/shiaa faith....
cuz no muslim (whatever sect) allows shirk....
and this is form of shirk....

:)

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by robby: *
i just have to say one simple thing, SUNNI WORD COMES FROM THE WORD SUNNAT,

SUNNAT = WHAT THE PROPHET DID

SUNNI = THE FOLLOWER OF WHAT HAZRAT MUHAMMAD(peace be upon him did)

U CANT BE A MUSLIM IF U DONT FOLLOW WHAT HE DID.

[/QUOTE]

Just calling yourselves sunni doesnt mean you are the true followers of sunnah.... where in Islam did Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. encouraged terrorist act.. go and read to subject and the first post on the topic for which the post was created.... what so called sunni mullah's are doing now... Is that the true Islam...encouraging terrorist activiities and killing of innocent shias is it the true Islam... if it is tell me where it is...what sunnah of Holy Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. follow... there is a hadith about Prophet P.B.U.H. that who makes Bibi Fatima S.A. angry makes me angry ... on top it it was saif ul islam a person who feel proud to call himself extermist mullah type... he himself said Abu Bakr displeased Fatima... what sunnah of Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H was he following...... Islam has religous tolerism...Prophet never spread Islam at the point of sword... what are the wahabis in Saudia doing... I've heard if any one does an act that the dont do..they hit people with sticks... what sunnah of Prophet are those sunnis following... Al-Qaeeda the leading terrorist organization by sunnis... the orgranization that gives Islam a bad name... what sunnah is this organization following...Did Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. did such terrorist activities? And the reason shia regard Hazrat Ali A.S. as an Imam is because of the incident of Ghadeer
www.al-islam.org/ghadir
Now tell me arent we following his sunnah.... did you look in the light of the ayats of Quran how important that hadith was?????
Its the Imams of shia that have defended Islam since the first day...
Hazrat Ali who was there in the battle of Ohad, even when some of the so called great sahabas ran from the battle field....
It was Hazrat Ali A.S. who defended islam in the battle of Khandaq where there was no other companion who came forward.
It was Hazrat Ali who was the hero of Kyber..
and what happened after people elected their own khaleefa's Islam came in the hands of people like Yazeed and who was there to defend Islam then.. Imam Hussain who sacrificed his family in the way of Allah to defend Islam...

Go and study your own believes Mr. before accusing other.... you got a lot of hw to do.