so what is the reason that shias are getting killed so often? did u try to discuss it with ur buddies
because… it unveils greediness of some personalities… and exposes how messed up so sunni mullahs like saif ul islam believes are… on one hand they claim any one who is hostile to Hazrat Ali is enemy on Allah and on other hand they respect the enemies of Allah like mawiya themselves..and some calls such an enemy ameer ul momineen. because of some greedy people khilafat came in hands of people like yazeed who shed blood of the family of Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. and was backed with huge armies who were thirsty for the blood of grandson of Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H…
care to tell me who are these people who according to whom according to their own believes a person should be enemy of Allah and they still respect him, and who are these person…who supported this enemy in the battle against Maulla Ali and then came in big numbers against Imam Hussain…
and isnt it some extermist sunni mullah’s who wants to kill shias because they don’t supporst some so called enemies of Allah…
^
baseless accusations like these r the cause of violence....
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*Originally posted by armughal: *
^
baseless accusations like these r the cause of violence....
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So easy to call my personal opinon baseless...... what makes them baselesss... all i quoted was what i learnt from saif ul Islam himself and in the light of this hadith presented.... answer the questions i asked earlier who were those muslims... before calling my accusations or questions baseless......
you have met those extermist mullah's, why dont you ponder light on whats the cause of them giving fatwas to kill shias....????
I’m not a Mullah, I’m just an ordinary Muslim. I was being sarcastic when I said I was one as I knew somebody is going to label me one for defending my religion.
Man you are as thick as a plank of wood. Did you bother to read my reply? When did I say it was not talking about them two? They were jealous of their co-wife Zainab and that is why Allah warned them not to let their jealousy for her oppose what the Prophet (peace be upon him) likes.
The Sunnah is part of Islam and I would rather follow Muhammad (peace be upon him) than blindly follow some Khomeini. We can’t ignore sayings and orders of our Prophet (peace be upon him) and follow any Imam or anyone blindly without asking for evidence from the Quran and Sunnah. And as for weak and fabricated Ahadith they have been scholars who have routed these out and have made clear which Ahadith are authentic and which ones are fabricated.
Allah says:
“No, by your Lord and Sustainer, they do not have faith until they have you (O Prophet) judge what is disputed among them, then they do not find in their souls any distress at what you have decided, and they accept it wholly and completely.” (Quran 33:36)
“O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger, and those of you who are in authority. (And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if you believe in Allah and in the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for final determination.” (Quran 4:59)
“And We have also sent down unto you (O Muhammad SAW) the reminder and the advice, that you may explain clearly to men what is sent down to them, and that they may give thought.” (Quran 16:44)
“And whoever contradicts and opposes the Messenger (Muhammad SAW) after the right path has been shown clearly to him, and follows other than the believers' way. We shall keep him in the path he has chosen, and burn him in Hell - what an evil destination.” (Quran 4:115)
Abu Bakr did not keep the area of fadak out of greed but because the Prophet (peace be upon him) said Prophets do not have heirs and everything they leave is charity. And like I said before the Prophet (peace be upon him)’s orders come before any other persons even if that person is Fatima. The hadith I quoted is from the Shia book Al-Kafi and Shia scholars say it is authentic and it also has basis in Sunni books.
We Sunni’s do not make judgements about issues on which the Sahaabah disagreed; we keep our peace on such issues as we are in no position to judge who was right and who was wrong.
Allah says about the Sahaabah:
“And the first to embrace Islâm of the Muhâjirûn (those who migrated from Makkah to Al-Madinah) and the Ansâr (the citizens of Al-Madinah who helped and gave aid to the Muhâjirûn) and also those who followed them exactly (in Faith). Allâh is well-pleased with them as they are well-pleased with Him. He has prepared for them Gardens under which rivers flow (Paradise), to dwell therein forever. That is the supreme success.” (Quran 9:100)
“Indeed, Allâh was pleased with the believers when they gave their Bai'â (pledge) to you (O Muhammad SAW) under the tree, He knew what was in their hearts, and He sent down As-Sakinah (calmness and tranquillity) upon them, and He rewarded them with a near victory,” (Quran 48:18)
I’m still not convinced that Hassan would accept a Kafir and a Munafiq to rule over the Muslims let alone give allegiance to him and your excuse that the real Muslims were small in number is just lame, if Hassan had thought Muawiyya was a kafir and a munafiq then he would have fought against him and Allah would aid him and help him against his enemies.
“…And never will Allah grant to the disbelievers a way (to triumph) over the believers.” (The holy Quran 4:141)
“O ye who believe! Choose not My enemy and your enemy for allies. Do ye give them friendship when they disbelieve in that truth which hath come unto you…” (The holy Quran 60:1)
“Permission to fight is given to those who are fighting them because they have been wronged, and surely Allah is able to give them victory.” (The holy Quran 22:39-40)
And as for Muawiyya insulting Ali then there is nothing authentic to prove this, history books contain some true stories and some false ones.
I don’t want this useless debate to carry on any longer because my time is far too precious to waste debating with people like you, who believe something just because their mommy’s and daddy’s believed in it.
Also I don’t believe in your kaafi’s and balagha’s and you don’t believe in our bukharis and muslims and you twist Quranic interpretations therefore there is no point in debating with you.
To you be your religion and to me be my Islam.
PS. I have just been corrected by someone the second part of the hadith I mentioned is only found in dhaef reports but the first part is Sahih... and Allah Ta'ala knows best.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sheraz CT: *
^ you are forgetting the main reason this thread was opened..there are people in this world that want to kill others just because they have different opinions
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indeed there are,..every group in every time has had people like that. people like us should not justify people being killed by others for whatever reasons. if people like you and I start thinking like that toh phir gayee bhains paani mein..
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Saif-ul-Islam: *
Believe what you want, we shall all find out on the day of judgement who was right and who blindly followed their whims, desires and forfathers instead of following the Quran and Sunnah...
[/QUOTE]
we believe we are following the Quran and the Sunnah.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Saif-ul-Islam: *
The Sunnah is part of Islam and I would rather follow Muhammad (peace be upon him) than blindly follow some Khomeini. We can’t ignore sayings and orders of our Prophet (peace be upon him) and follow any Imam or anyone blindly without asking for evidence from the Quran and Sunnah. And as for weak and fabricated Ahadith they have been scholars who have routed these out and have made clear which Ahadith are authentic and which ones are fabricated.
[/QUOTE]
and thats why i said to sunnis islam is was not perfect even though quran itseld testifies
"Today I have perfected your religion and completed my favour upon you, and I was satisfied that Islam be your religion." (Qur'an 5:3)
and Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. left them to follow sunnah but not an exact source...... and left them hunt through choose from a bunch of hadith's and pick the ones they want.......
another lame accusations shiaism is not about following khomeni we follow Imam's who have defended islam no matter what.... and sacrificed their families in the way of Allah and were their to witness for the truth in mubahila... not some people who ran in mountains and then became thekeydar of islam.
[QUOTE]
“And whoever contradicts and opposes the Messenger (Muhammad SAW) after the right path has been shown clearly to him, and follows other than the believers' way. We shall keep him in the path he has chosen, and burn him in Hell - what an evil destination.” (Quran 4:115)
[/QUOTE]
and didnt Abu Bakr opposed Holy Prophet P.B.U.H. by displeasing Fatima Zehra SA. wasnt that order of Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. that whoever makes Fatima angry makes me angry... why didnt he follow so called order order to full fill his greed compare to not dipleasing Bibi Fatima SA... if nauzubillah Bibi Fatima Zehra SA was not righteous why would Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. give such a hadith... so lost people your own believes contradicts each other.
OH guess what another lame excuse can be seen right here.... One part of the hadith is correct but other one is dhaef... even though it fits in the context of the first one ... let me quote it again....
[QUOTE]
Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) also said “allahummu wali man walaah wa adi manadaah (O Allah befriend whosoever befriends him and be the enemy of whosoever is hostile to him)”
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Even though you brought it up first but now when you cant justify your respect for the enemies of islam who came to battle against Maula Ali the second part was declared dhaef.... and the first to be sahiah without any proper reasoning even though second part fits the first.... another sounds like another conspiracy by sunnies more like another contradicting believes to support their previous justifications... you know how it works.. you gotta tell 100 lies to cover one... you brought it up clarify on what bases was the second part declared dhaef besides the fact your own believes are messed up and contradicts each other....
[QUOTE]
We Sunni’s do not make judgements about issues on which the Sahaabah disagreed; we keep our peace on such issues as we are in no position to judge who was right and who was wrong.
[/QUOTE]
apparetly your own hadith's and books makes it easy to know who was right.... Islam is perfect isn't it...but oh well you gotta make some hadith's dhaef without any justification to defend your love and respect for the enemies of Islam as you quoted in the hadiths don't you.
wasnt this the hadith you quoted to justify your meaning on mawla but when it effects your other believes oops bad luck try gotta make it dhaef... what next you going to declare the hadith from sahih bukhari:
"Lady Fatima is a part of me. Whoever angers her, angers me." Sahih Bukhari, 5:35
too fix your contradicting believes of another hadith and choose one that meets your interest....
talkin about mummy daddy i asked you counter questions of the hadith you yourself quoted.... go and fix your believes mullah jee before you start preachings others... first sought out which of the hadith's are to the best of your interest before preaching others and then declaring it dhaef.. when it doesnt support other things you have to preach...wow what an Islam is Mulalh Saif ul Islam the proud extermist Mullah is preaching......
All i asked was a simple question... if not Ayesha and hafiza who are the two women Allah is warning too...... by the way is jealousy hasad..something not goood????? the figure two is mentioned in the ayat care to clarify or should i say cook up two names of the people who fits the context of the ayat and why?
And extermist Mullah jee care to answer this questoin too
whats suprises me is ... everyone who became khaleefa is regarded as Ameer ul Momineen by sunni's then why dont they regard yazeed as a khaleefa, his father fought against Imam Ali ( which based in the light of the hadith you quoted earlier makes him the enemy of Allah) and is regarded as nauzubillah Ameer ul Momineen. why not yazeed then...to me its the history of Karbala that unveiled the face of what happend to Islam when they left dar-e-ahleybait and started electing their own khaleefas. It came in the hands on power greedy people..
Mullah jee i can make 100's of stories if i want too
I am still waiting on your justification on the following questions
quote:
......which Allah will forgive. Ali (may Allah be pleased with him) forgave her and others who were on the opposing side, he made sure that she left the battle ground safely.
any refernces......well its up Allah to forgive but any refernces when did Ali forgave her......
.... I am glad atleat you said Hazrat Ali forgave her and not vice versa implying you believed she was wrong and needed forgiveness from Allah and Ali.....I am sure when you made the statements of Hazrat Ali forgiving her... it must be in your books and not some made up stuff....
quote:
And like I said before some of the Sahaabah (may Allah be pleased with them) did make mistakes and have some shortcomings for which they repented but their good deeds and sacrifices in the way of Islam outweighed them by far.
and how do you know they overweighed or they mgiht have repententred, but its Allah who give repentence.
those were some questions i raised earlier... but i don't know if its worth asking you again looking at the things a mullah like you have to preach first say some hadith and when it doesnt fit right to your interest make it dhaef without any justifications.
I’m no scholar. Someone told me that the addition “allahummu wali man walaah wa adi manadaah” is only something people made up but if that is not the case then please tell me, thanks.
And it just occurred to me that as for “man kuntu mawlah fa Ali mawlah” when the Prophet (peace be upon him) said that he did not give any time frame. So even if he did mean leader, which I don’t think he did but even if it is interpreted that way it doesn’t necessarily mean right after him.
And why would I call a hadith weak just because it doesn’t fit my interest? My only interest is to please Allah the Exalted and follow the truth even if that goes against my current beliefs. I have changed sects a few times when I found my beliefs and practices were not in conformity with the Quran and Sunnah and I am certain that what I currently believe is the truth.
And how does following the Sunnah contradict (Quran 5:3), we do believe Islam was complete when this verse was revealed the Quran and Sunnah were complete for the Muslims to follow. So what if Ahadith were collected after the Prophet (peace be upon him)’s death? Even the Quran was put together in book form after the Prophet (peace be upon him) had died by those who you call hypocrites. I think you should stick to following just your Imams, these hypocrite Caliph's might have added or omitted something from the Quran too.
Anyways suppose the Sahaabah were not really Muslims on the inside they were hypocrites as you say then…
Why then did Ali marry his daughter to Umar a hypocrite? I’m sure he could find a Muslim for her if he looked hard enough.
Why did the Prophet (peace be upon him) marry two of his daughters to Usman? I’m sure they could find better men than to marry them to a Munafiq.
Why didn’t the Prophet (peace be upon him) divorce Aisha, if she was not worthy of being his wife?
Why didn’t the Prophet (peace be upon him) not distance himself from these hypocrites in his lifetime as not to cause confusion for the Ummah and clearly say these lot are kafirs, keep away from them?
Why did Ali give allegiance to the first 3 Caliphs when he knew they were Munafiqs?
Why did Ali name three of his children Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman? (Kitab al-Irshad)
And don’t say they didn’t know of their hypocrisy because according to Shia belief the Imams have absolute knowledge.
And why does Allah praise the Sahaabah in the Quran and say that he has prepared gardens under which rivers flow for them?
saif there were some good sahabas as well..we never say that every sahaba was corrupt
anyways Imam Ali :as: never married His daugher to Umar the hypocrite
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sheraz CT: *
we believe we are following the Quran and the Sunnah.
[/QUOTE]
okay now those 2 are done (perhaps) with killing Shias and Sunnis, lets fight over whose collection of Sunnah/Hadith is RIGHT and whose Quranic interpretation is RIGHT.... shall we?
Thanks for adding fuel to dying fire :k:
The punishment of stoning is still prescribed in some muslim countries because of the some Ahadiths in which married adulterous men and women are stoned to death. But there is no historical evidence the after the revelation of the verse in Holy Quran which pertains to the punishment of adulter (flogging), Holy Prophet (peace be upon him) prescribed stoning as a punishment.
Holy Prophet (peace be upon him) in absence of any clear injunction from Holy Quran, used to refer to Mosaic Law(Bible) before making any decision. As the punishment of stoning was mentioned in Bible, It was carried out until the verse in Surah-Al-Noor was revealed.
bus hamari hi baat aapko khatakti hai
To Moderator: Please move the above post from me to the thread 'Nigerian stoing appeal heard'. It is wrongly posted here.
Thanks!
Now you are the one denying history… They had two children from this marriage Zayd and Ruqayyah.
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*Originally posted by Saif-ul-Islam: *
Now you are the one denying history... They had two children from this marriage Zayd and Ruqayyah.
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yeah sure..let me kno when you finish writing this history book