Maulana

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by bao bihari: *

Haan gee ...issi liye arab say log indo [pak kay maddrasson main parhnay jatay hain.......

BTW...Fraudz.........is the word rehman in quran is used for some other meanning........if it is used solely for ALLAH then kindly also include the word in shirkia alfaaz for the reason u gave before......
[/QUOTE]

then He rose over the Throne,ar-Rahmaan(25:59)

Do they not see the birds above them, spreading out their wings and folding them in?None upholds them except ar-Rahmaan(67.19)

Assalam Aleekum
What is the point of mentioning Arabs. I don't think Arabs are the
best Islamic Scholars.I am cautious when I see a Paki name with
religious information.
Yes, you have a valid point.But I added 01 in front of Rehman01.
But the difference between you and me is I accept a mistake.
Refer to me as Masoom Ur Rehman(the 8th).

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by inuit: *
It is not matter of Desi or Walayati. **Ilm kisi ki meras nahin hay.
* Most of the Muhadaseens and Imams in Islam are non-Arabic. like Bukahri, and Hanifa. Dont make a joke of yourself. be responsible.
[/QUOTE]

Thats Imam Abu Hanifa and Imam Bukhari.
The greatest scholars of Islam.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Fraudz: *
bao behari, sure, that should be preceded by abdul. Atleast that is what I follow. but then i know many raud, raheem, kareem, samad etc, atthis rate I will see someone named allah too.
[/QUOTE]

The problem is lack of religious knowledge in Pak.

The word 'Maulana' has never been criticized by anyone in the whole Islamic history. It is only a few websites propped up today who abhor this word.
This word is used in Quran and is in no way objectionable.

A few comments on Brother rehman1's post:

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rehman1: *
Then he said: ‘I am leaving among you two important things: the first of which is the Book of Allaah’ – and he urged us to adhere to the Book of Allaah, then he said: ‘And the people of my household (ahl bayti). I remind you of Allaah with regard to the people of my household, I remind you of Allaah with regard to the people of my household, I remind you of Allaah with regard to the people of my household.’
[/QUOTE]

hmm. So you do accept that prophet used the word 'Ahle Bait', and the version of this hadeeth which says that prophet left two things, Quran and Sunnah, is wrong. Correct?

I see this wrong version quoted VERY frequently on the net by Ahle Sunnah.

Whoever is included in Ahle Bait, one thing is sure, prophet used the word "Ahle Bait", and not "Sunnat".

So according to your quoted website, prophet reminded people about ahlebait so that they would give them respect after his death. But why did he emphasize the 'Ahlebait' part three times?
What do you think is more important for Islam, Quran or Ahlebait? If you say Quran then why did he not mention Quran three times?

Is it that prophet knew how people are going to treat the ahlebait after his demise?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by 1010: *
The word 'Maulana' has never been criticized by anyone in the whole Islamic history. It is only a few websites propped up today who abhor this word.
This word is used in Quran and is in no way objectionable.

A few comments on Brother rehman1's post:

hmm. So you do accept that prophet used the word 'Ahle Bait', and the version of this hadeeth which says that prophet left two things, Quran and Sunnah, is wrong. Correct?

I see this wrong version quoted VERY frequently on the net by Ahle Sunnah.

Whoever is included in Ahle Bait, one thing is sure, prophet used the word "Ahle Bait", and not "Sunnat".

So according to your quoted website, prophet reminded people about ahlebait so that they would give them respect after his death. But why did he emphasize the 'Ahlebait' part three times?
What do you think is more important for Islam, Quran or Ahlebait? If you say Quran then why did he not mention Quran three times?

Is it that prophet knew how people are going to treat the ahlebait after his demise?
[/QUOTE]

Its so sad that asusual people like you are making false claims.
Trying to twist words.Its off topic. Start a new thread. I do not
agree to Your definition of AHL-E-BAIT.
As usual you have mixed Prophets(SAW) last sermon and
a Hadith about another event together. Keep up with your lies.
Why should I even answer to people who celebrate 3 eids.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by 1010: *
....
I see this wrong version quoted VERY frequently on the net by Ahle Sunnah.

Whoever is included in Ahle Bait, one thing is sure, prophet used the word "Ahle Bait", and not "Sunnat".

So according to your quoted website, prophet reminded people about ahlebait so that they would give them respect after his death. But why did he emphasize the 'Ahlebait' part three times?
What do you think is more important for Islam, Quran or Ahlebait? If you say Quran then why did he not mention Quran three times?

Is it that prophet knew how people are going to treat the ahlebait after his demise?
[/QUOTE]

ok so dicussion regarding word "Maulana" is over, and we move back to discussing Shias and Sunnis?

I hate to go off-topic. It was off-topic in reply to an off-topic post.

Assalamu Alaykum,

I think when looking at such Ahadith and having found that multiple versions exist, and all apparently with conflicting messages, neither of them can be and should be accepted blindly. Hadith, after all, is a work of humans and can be contain errors due to human limitations. No human can claim to have been error free, irrespective of how much care they took and how clean their intentions were, because God has not created any human perfect. This only means that people ascribe these words to Muhammad (sws)- we have no conclusive proof whether he really said it! People say he did, we cannot completely know the truth in this matter.

With regards to the word Ahl-e-Bait, a few things that are worth noting.

Firstly, the word Ahl-e-Bait in Arabic literally means ‘ghar waalay’ in Urdu, which includes everyone who lives inside a House. It definitely includes wives of the Prophet (sws). As an example, consider the following verse from Qur’an where Abraham’s wife is being told about a son:

“And his wife was standing (there), and she laughed: But we gave her glad tidings of Isaac, and after him, of Jacob. She said: ‘Alas for me! shall I bear a child, seeing I am an old woman, and my husband here is an old man? That would indeed be a wonderful thing!’ They said: ‘Do you wonder at Allah’s decree? The grace of Allah and His blessings on you, o you people of the house! (Ahl-e-Bait) for He is indeed worthy of all praise, full of all glory!’” (Hud 11:71-73)

And once again in the case of Hazrat Musa when he has to be fed,

“And we ordained that he refused suck at first, until (His sister came up and) said: ‘Shall I point out to you the people of a house (Ahl-e-Bait) that will nourish and bring him up for you and be sincerely attached to him?’” (Al-Qasas 28:12)

As a result, taking the word Ahl-e-Bait to not include the wives of the Prophet (sws) would not be correct, especially since that conclusion is also based on Hadith alone, which once again falls in the same category of sources which can contain errors.

Lastly, I am also of the opinion, whether word Sunnah or Ahl-e-Bait is taken from the Hadith, nobody should place their Aqeedah in Hadith. I think Qur’an is itself sufficient as far as the Aqaid are concerned and sufficient for one’s salvation. It is the Word of Allah acting according to which must suffice in the Hereafter insha’Allah and make us successful too.

(Please do not take this to mean that I am a denier of Prophet (sws)'s Sunnah or Hadith. If you have questions, please look at another post first: “Understanding the Qur’an (split discussion)”.)

Regards.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by oiqbal: *
Assalamu Alaykum,

I think when looking at such Ahadith and having found that multiple versions exist, and all apparently with conflicting messages, neither of them can be and should be accepted blindly. Hadith, after all, is a work of humans and can be contain errors due to human limitations. No human can claim to have been error free, irrespective of how much care they took and how clean their intentions were, because God has not created any human perfect. This only means that people ascribe these words to Muhammad (sws)- we have no conclusive proof whether he really said it! People say he did, we cannot completely know the truth in this matter.

With regards to the word Ahl-e-Bait, a few things that are worth noting.

Firstly, the word Ahl-e-Bait in Arabic literally means 'ghar waalay' in Urdu, which includes everyone who lives inside a House. It definitely includes wives of the Prophet (sws). As an example, consider the following verse from Qur'an where Abraham's wife is being told about a son:

Regards.
[/QUOTE]

Why are the words of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) counted as proof?

Answer :

Praise be to Allaah.

Hadeeth means the words, actions, approval or attributes that have been narrated from the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).

A hadeeth may either confirm things that are mentioned in the Qur’aan, such as prayer, zakaah, etc., or it may give details of things that are mentioned in the Qur’aan in general terms, such as the numbers of rak’ahs in each prayer, the thresholds for paying zakaah, the details of Hajj, etc. It may also explain rulings which are not mentioned in the Qur’aan, such as the prohibition on being married to a woman and her (paternal or maternal) aunt at the same time.

Allaah revealed the Qur’aan to His Messenger Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and commanded him to explain it to the people, as He said (interpretation of the meaning):

“And We have also sent down unto you (O Muhammad) the Dhikr [reminder and the advice (i.e. the Qur’aan)], that you may explain clearly to men what is sent down to them, and that they may give thought”

[al-Nahl 16:44]

The hadeeth of the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) is a revelation (wahy) from his Lord. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Your companion (Muhammad) has neither gone astray nor has erred.

Nor does he speak of (his own) desire.

It is only a Revelation revealed”

[al-Najm 53:2-4]

Allaah sent His Messenger Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) to call mankind to worship Allaah alone, and to disbelieve in any (god) apart from Him, and (He sent him) to bring the glad tidings of Paradise and warnings of Hell:

“O Prophet (Muhammad)! Verily, We have sent you as witness, and a bearer of glad tidings, and a warner,

And as one who invites to Allaah [Islamic Monotheism, i.e. to worship none but Allaah (Alone)] by His Leave, and as a lamp spreading light (through your instructions from the Qur’aan and the Sunnah the legal ways of the Prophet)

[al-Ahzaab 33:45-46 – interpretation of the meaning]

The Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was anxious over this ummah; he did not know of anything good but he told them of it, and he did not know of anything evil but he warned them against it:

“Verily, there has come unto you a Messenger (Muhammad) from amongst yourselves. It grieves him that you should receive any injury or difficulty. He (Muhammad) is anxious over you; for the believers (he is) full of pity, kind, and merciful”

[al-Tawbah 9:128 – interpretation of the meaning]

Every Prophet was sent only to his own people, but Allaah sent His Messenger Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) to all of mankind:

“And We have sent you (O Muhammad) not but as a mercy for the ‘Aalameen (mankind, jinn and all that exists)”

[al-Anbiyaa’ 21:101 – interpretation of the meaning]

Because the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) conveyed the revelation that was sent down to him from His Lord, it is obligatory to obey him. Indeed, obedience to him is obedience to Allaah:

“He who obeys the Messenger (Muhammad), has indeed obeyed Allaah”

[al-Nisaa’ 4:80 – interpretation of the meaning]

Obedience to Allaah and His Messenger is the way to salvation and victory, and to happiness in this world and in the Hereafter:

“And whosoever obeys Allaah and His Messenger, he has indeed achieved a great achievement (i.e. he will be saved from the Hell‑fire and will be admitted to Paradise)”

[al-Ahzaab 33:71 – interpretation of the meaning]

Hence it is obligatory for all people to obey Allaah and His Messenger, because therein lies their success and salvation:

“And obey Allaah and the Messenger (Muhammad) that you may obtain mercy”

[Aal ‘Imraan 3:132 – interpretation of the meaning]

Whoever disobeys Allaah and His Messenger only harms himself, he does not harm Allaah in the slightest:

“And whosoever disobeys Allaah and His Messenger (Muhammad), and transgresses His limits, He will cast him into the Fire, to abide therein; and he shall have a disgraceful torment”

[al-Nisaa’ 4:14 – interpretation of the meaning]

Once Allaah and His Messenger have decided a matter, no one has the right to choose concerning that or to object to it; rather it is obligatory to obey and to believe in the truth:

“It is not for a believer, man or woman, when Allaah and His Messenger have decreed a matter that they should have any option in their decision. And whoever disobeys Allaah and His Messenger, he has indeed strayed into a plain error

[al-Ahzaab 33:36 – interpretation of the meaning]

A person's faith is not complete until he loves Allaah and His Messenger, and love implies obedience. Whoever wants Allah to love him and forgive his sins must follow the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him):

“Say (O Muhammad to mankind): ‘If you (really) love Allaah, then follow me (i.e. accept Islamic Monotheism, follow the Qur’aan and the Sunnah), Allaah will love you and forgive you your sins. And Allaah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful’”

[Aal ‘Imraan 3:31 – interpretation of the meaning]

Love of the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) is not simply the matter of words to be repeated, rather it is the matter of belief and conduct, i.e., obedience to what he commands, belief in what he tells us, avoidance of what he forbids, and avoidance of worshipping Allaah in any way except that which he prescribed.

When Allaah had perfected this religion and the Messenger had conveyed the message of his Lord, Allaah took him to be with Him. The Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) left this ummah with clear proof in which there is no ambiguity. No one deviates from it but he is doomed:

“This day, those who disbelieved have given up all hope of your religion; so fear them not, but fear Me. This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My Favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion”

[al-Maa'idah 5:3 – interpretation of the meaning]

By the grace of Allaah, the Sahaabah (may Allaah be pleased with them) preserved the ahaadeeth of the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon them), then the righteous salaf who came after them compiled them in books which are known as the Sihaah (Saheehs), Sunan and Musnads. The most sound of them are Saheeh al-Bukhaari, Saheeh Muslim, the four Sunans, the Musnad of Imaam Ahmad and the Muwatta’ of Imaam Maalik, etc.

Allaah has perfected this religion. The Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) did not know of anything good but he taught it to his ummah, and he did not know of anything evil but he warned them against it. So whoever introduces anything into the religion, of bid’ah (innovation) or myths, such as praying to the dead or circumambulating (tawaaf) their tombs, or praying to the jinn and awliya’ (“saints”), and other things that have not been prescribed by Allaah and His Messenger, all of that is to be rejected and not accepted, as the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever innovates something in this matter of ours (Islam) that is not a part of it will have it rejected.” (Narrated by Muslim, 1718)

From Usool al-Deen al-Islami, by Shaykh Muhammad ibn Ibraaheem al-Tuwayjri (www.islam-qa.com)

Praise be to Allaah.

Among the ahaadeeth which are attributed to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), there are some which are saheeh (sound), concerning which there is no doubt that they are the words of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). There are others which are da’eef (weak) and there are doubts that they can be attributed to him. Both saheeh and da’eef are well known to the scholars. Books of saheeh have been compiled which include saheeh ahaadeeth such as Saheeh al-Bukhaari and Saheeh Muslim; there are other books which include saheeh ahaadeeth and others, like the other books of hadeeth, The scholars have gone to great lengths to distinguish the saheeh from others, as is well known to young students let alone those who have specialized in the study of the Sunnah._

Assalamu Alaykum Rehman,

Thanks for the message. Before I reply, I just want to confirm if you have you posted the postings from the web because you agree with the interpretation of these verses from the Qur'an and their messages. And if you have also read my post and understood what I proposed, because your post was not related to the main message but just to a part thereof.

I do not doubt you or your intentions, but in my experience I have usually found that posting articles from the web and replying to them is not as productive especially because it is not a personal discussion anymore. Therefore, I generally do not read and do not think about the copy/pastes and I am also of the opinion that one should try to find the truth for Allah's sake, and not just find arguments to support one's claim. Our aim in the life is to find what Allah wants and present it to others, not realize what we want and then try to present everything wherever we find to support that claim. Our search should be unbiased and honest.

I do not doubt your intentions or the fact that this is not what you aim at. In fact, I always assume that you also have the same goals, but I am reiterating this to make sure we are on the same page. If the argument is just to prove which faith is correct and which is not, I will not want to continue the discussion like this. That is not my intent for being here.

However, if the discussion is about finding out what the actual reality is, then I will love to hear from you, and I hope you will also like to hear from me. I will then also be willing to read the posts and reply to them.

I hope the best from the Almighty for you, myself and everyone on this forum.

Best Regards.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by oiqbal: *
Assalamu Alaykum Rehman,

Thanks for the message. Before I reply, I just want to confirm if you have you posted the postings from the web because you agree with the interpretation of these verses from the Qur'an and their messages. And if you have also read my post and understood what I proposed, because your post was not related to the main message but just to a part thereof.

I do not doubt you or your intentions, but in my experience I have usually found that posting articles from the web and replying to them is not as productive especially because it is not a personal discussion anymore. Therefore, I generally do not read and do not think about the copy/pastes and I am also of the opinion that one should try to find the truth for Allah's sake, and not just find arguments to support one's claim. Our aim in the life is to find what Allah wants and present it to others, not realize what we want and then try to present everything wherever we find to support that claim. Our search should be unbiased and honest.

I do not doubt your intentions or the fact that this is not what you aim at. In fact, I always assume that you also have the same goals, but I am reiterating this to make sure we are on the same page. If the argument is just to prove which faith is correct and which is not, I will not want to continue the discussion like this. That is not my intent for being here.

However, if the discussion is about finding out what the actual reality is, then I will love to hear from you, and I hope you will also like to hear from me. I will then also be willing to read the posts and reply to them.

I hope the best from the Almighty for you, myself and everyone on this forum.

Best Regards.
[/QUOTE]

Assalam Aleekum
Brother Iqbal, whether you read the posts or not,its upto you.
And I am entitled to Present MY FACTS. But I hope and pray that
other people read the my posts to have a clear idea about
Sunnah. Koran and Sunnah are ISLAM. Both should be studied
together to understand the truth.
Otherwise we always have RASHAD KHALIFA.

take care
and have a nice day

I am also of the opinion that one should try to find the truth for Allah's sake, and not just find arguments to support one's claim. Our aim in the life is to find what Allah wants and present it to others, not realize what we want and then try to present everything wherever we find to support that claim. Our search should be unbiased and honest.

answer:
Our aim in the life is to find what Allah wants WHICH Allah(SWT) has
conveyed to us through Prophet Muhammad(SAW).
i-e the Koran and Sunnah(Hadith).

I do not doubt your intentions or the fact that this is not what you aim at. In fact, I always assume that you also have the same goals, but I am reiterating this to make sure we are on the same page. If the argument is just to prove which faith is correct and which is not, I will not want to continue the discussion like this. That is not my intent for being here.

Answer) thanks for being so nice.please, tell us what do you think the
truth is. do not direct me to any other post. please, give me a reply here.
i hope it will not be a burden for you.

However, if the discussion is about finding out what the actual reality is, then I will love to hear from you, and I hope you will also like to hear from me. I will then also be willing to read the posts and reply to them.

I hope the best from the Almighty for you, myself and everyone on this forum.
answer) And I also pray for the intercession of Prophet Muhammad(SAW).

Assalamu Alaykum,

Thank you Rehman for your message.

If anyone else thinks I need to explain something, please let me know. You can send me a personal message or email at [email protected].

Best Regards to all.

Originally posted by 1010: *
**The word 'Maulana' has never been criticized by anyone in the whole Islamic history. It is only a few websites propped up today who abhor this word.
*

the word maulana has not been used to refer to people all along the islamic history but has been a recent development.

This being an arabis word, do we see many arab scholars using thsi term for themselves?

This word is used in Quran and is in no way objectionable.

well the quran uses thge word shaitaan as well, maybe that can be used as a title?

But seriosuly, Quran uses this word to refer to god. and last time I chacked none of the "maulans" of Pakistan were god. It may have changed since then ;)

Thanks for being so nice. Yes, I think people can email you.

But I also encourage people to read articles at http://islaam.com/Section.aspx?id=8 before reading into
MASHAWARAS or EMAILS.
This website will give the readers a great understanding of Sunnah
and ITS IMPORTANCE.

take care

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Fraudz: *

and thus rab and Rabbana can be used as a title too?
kewl Rabbana Fraudia has a nice ring to it dont you think?
it is a title of respect and esteem, having no divine undertones..or overtones
[/QUOTE]
**This I have already answered in my previous post. For your convenience I am posting once again. I hope you will read this time.

Allah has a few names and attributes which are exclusively reserved for His Being like Allah, Rahman, 'Alimul Ghaib etc. Some of His attributes have been used in the Qur'an to also refer to the Holy Prophet (SAW) like 'Aziz, Ra'uf, Rahim, Sami' etc. When these names are used to denote the Being of Allah, it is meant that the perfection of these attributes are only to be found in Allah, but when used for His creation, it means that these qualities have been bestowed upon some of the creation to a lesser degree. The word Maula falls under the second category of names. The difference is to be discerned within the context. Allah also used the word Maula to describe Angel Jibra'il and the pious believers in the following verse: "Verily Allah is his Maula, as well as Jibra'il and the pious believers." (Tahrim: 4)**

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by inuit: *
**This I have already answered in my previous post. For your convenience I am posting once again. I hope you will read this time.

Allah has a few names and attributes which are exclusively reserved for His Being like Allah, Rahman, 'Alimul Ghaib etc. Some of His attributes have been used in the Qur'an to also refer to the Holy Prophet (SAW) like 'Aziz, Ra'uf, Rahim, Sami' etc. When these names are used to denote the Being of Allah, it is meant that the perfection of these attributes are only to be found in Allah, but when used for His creation, it means that these qualities have been bestowed upon some of the creation to a lesser degree. The word Maula falls under the second category of names. The difference is to be discerned within the context. Allah also used the word Maula to describe Angel Jibra'il and the pious believers in the following verse: "Verily Allah is his Maula, as well as Jibra'il and the pious believers." (Tahrim: 4)**
[/QUOTE]

The word is "MAULANA".

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by inuit: *
**This I have already answered in my previous post. For your convenience I am posting once again. I hope you will read this time.

word Maula falls under the second category of names. The difference is to be discerned within the context. Allah also used the word Maula to describe Angel Jibra'il and the pious believers in the following verse: "Verily Allah is his Maula, as well as Jibra'il and the pious believers." (Tahrim: 4)**
[/QUOTE]

I responded to that , I hope you will read my response this time.

Maula is not the same as Maulana

Word 'Maulana' means 'Hamara Maula' in Urdu. Not much of a difference.