tell your husband to record the guys khutbas, send the recording of teh objectionable stuff to the masjid's board and tell them they have 2 weeks to ahve this guy apologize and retract his statement or he will be sending this tape and any others which he finds objectionable to department of homeland security and that he is keeping a record of communication with them to how later that this was indeed brought to the board's attention.
see them scramble after that. I did something similar, and got one idiot sent packing.My bro in law did it more directly, he ran for election for the board, and then fired the rabid mullah.
Thats great initiative and what your BIL did, that's true leadership. :biggthumb
I agree with Khanbabax on that. There is a guard standing outside Macdonalds in Karachi with Ak47 in his hands. Is Macdonalds preaching terrorism. I like the term coined by someone on a recent Capital Talk. They talked about liberal exterimist. I noticed that most of the people in this forum fall under that cateogary. Without ever entering any mosque, they made up their mind that all mosques in Pakistan are "terrorism kay adday"
A good reason, never to eneter a mosque. right muslim brothers?
That guard is not instructed to kill anyone who comes up to the Micky D, and says "Your burgers suck - bun kabab rules".
Going back to the purpose of the thread, I can’t give you an example of a khutba I heard in Pakistan, because the mosques around my neighborhood there are not friendly towards women. Either there is no women’s section, or the gharwalay outright discourage you from going.
I wonder what that says about the state of mosques and how they’re run in Pakistan.
It was a masjid near to where I live so I will not tell you the name. He was there to recruit people in his now banned group. He had bought with him his armed ghundaas, so I found it best to leave quietly. He was a member of a violent militant group and he didn't explicitly tell everyone to go out and kill people, it was clear that he believed in violent jihad against everyone not of his group or beliefs.
My point is telling this story was to show how myths and conspiracy theories play into the hands of the jihadists to incite hatred and violence against others.
Peace Khehkeshan
Okay so there is no Masjid name that you are willing to tell me.
You have not given the name of the group.
You have called armed men, ghundaas without a reference, did they do any ghundagardi on anyone? Merely being armed does not earn the title ghunda, police officers and lot's of Afghans and even people in the villages walk around with arms.
So you left without ratifying any of your concerns and crystalised your opinions in a vacuum of direct information regarding the people you are talking about.
So he did not tell people to go out and kill, but this according to you still makes him from a violent militant group, again group has not been named.
But at the same time you hold that it was clear that he believed "in violent jihad against everyone not of his group or beliefs". Did you look into his heart? Was it written on his face?
Can you tell when you are acting upon a whim or on evidence
And what has this to do with the Masjid? You have focussed all your attention on the visitor but your local Masjid allowed it to happen, did you report them? Or, were they scared of the ghundas and therefore it was out of their hands? Was the masjid preaching terrorism?
I don't get it. If you're muslim, and you've learned true Islam, then where does all the hatred and violence come from? I'm a muslim, and I don't feel an urgent need to go and kill people. Even if you're suffering from poverty, and other problems, surely there are better solutions than suicide bombing yourself and killing off a bunch of foreign people and other poor locals?
Its not like Pakistan is undergoing some tyrannical rule where no one has freedom to be a muslim.
He said Hafiz Ghazi Shaheed would spend 10 million every month, and support 10000 people every month but they would eat the food that was left over from the students. (He said a very close reliable friend of mine and Ghazi Shaheed have told me this and even they would pay for this food to the madrassah). Their house was so simple.
He also said big brother was deceived and arrested. How they made fun of him in burqa while he was told to wear burqa and come out. This was all planned to give bad name to Ulema.
He said thats why little brother refused to give up. He knew they would deceives us.
He said this Masjid is really lal (red). Lal with the blood of shaheeds.
I don't get it. If you're muslim, and you've learned true Islam, then where does all the hatred and violence come from? I'm a muslim, and I don't feel an urgent need to go and kill people. Even if you're suffering from poverty, and other problems, surely there are better solutions than suicide bombing yourself and killing off a bunch of foreign people and other poor locals?
Its not like Pakistan is undergoing some tyrannical rule where no one has freedom to be a muslim.
Peace PyariCgudia
I agree with you on that. Learning Islam correctly should ensure people are holding off for longer than any other human can possibly hold off for.
Hatred which causes violence is a result of fear and oppression, confusion and mischief in addition to being naturally there inside and subdued hopefully due to our understanding of the Deen.
You see, I saw the threat in a people who felt threatened. I don't actually think there was much thought put into the whole frenzy of recent killings. The army are required to follow orders and not to think, in the same instance the people of the mosque were possibly very afraid and felt there was no use in dialogue, fuelled with a sense of moral high ground you see how such things can take place?
Furthermore, our media did nothing to calm down the situation, it threw fuel on the fire.
Yes, Muslims should know better and the religious should be demonstrably better.
However, we should not ignore the fact that the lens we view the situation with is that of the media and they are tied to side with the powers that be. That put's us in a position remarkably outside one of fair judgement. If that is what true Muslims should be doing.
every one knows that a worship place is quiet and pure.
so what is done there in, must also be like wise.
what is to be enabled is a willingness to accept that wrong correlations are wrong
and in patiently changing prejudgemental attitudes, those who would want masajid to be known as peaceful educational centers for next generations, will have to prevent absolutely wrong notions such as that masajid are places where fanatics are trained.
terbiyet needs an atmosphere that befits it.
and good talim aur terbiyet can happen best at an institution that carried good moral and character up bringing along side physical sciences and literacy.
we need to redefine and re characterize educational atmosphere.
and religion as well as education as we know it, for the sake of livelihood and world knowledge can go together, only if the right types of people made it work in the right way.
Thats great initiative and what your BIL did, that's true leadership. :biggthumb
Thank you, we cant keep sitting on our hands and complaining that these mullahs are saying crap unchecked if we are not goign to grow the cojones to confront that.
Mullah shikarpuri is right on one count, lal masjid is lal with teh blood of teh shaheeds of our armed forces.
PS: little brother kept bargaining to get a free pass, and was caught as he was trying to run away after all the big talk about fighting until death, but was killed as he was running away.
Mullah shikarpuri is right on one count, lal masjid is lal with teh blood of teh shaheeds of our armed forces.
PS: little brother kept bargaining to get a free pass, and was caught as he was trying to run away after all the big talk about fighting until death, but was killed as he was running away.
Atleast believe your own government sources, he was killed in his room and 22 bullets were hit from very close distance.
tell your husband to record the guys khutbas, send the recording of teh objectionable stuff to the masjid's board and tell them they have 2 weeks to ahve this guy apologize and retract his statement or he will be sending this tape and any others which he finds objectionable to department of homeland security and that he is keeping a record of communication with them to how later that this was indeed brought to the board's attention.
see them scramble after that. I did something similar, and got one idiot sent packing. My bro in law did it more directly, he ran for election for the board, and then fired the rabid mullah.
so back to topic. i have always believed that mosques and madrassas should be stae controlled/monitored and run. for this to happen the govt has to take an avid interest in the religious affairs. which sadly the current or even the past govts have never done. i mean i keep hearing this drama academy started, that music/dance institute opened up, how many govt funded mosque and madrassas have been started? people like mufti taqi usmani that have served the govt as judge would surely be able to help and they are more than willing, but the govt keeps ignoring these people and keeps neglecting religion, end result you have religion hijacked. as i said turn up in your local mosques, do your namaz with jamat there was a reason why jamat was farz, it keeps you engaged and aware of your community.
so back to topic. i have always believed that mosques and madrassas should be stae controlled/monitored and run. for this to happen the govt has to take an avid interest in the religious affairs. which sadly the current or even the past govts have never done. i mean i keep hearing this drama academy started, that music/dance institute opened up, how many govt funded mosque and madrassas have been started? people like mufti taqi usmani that have served the govt as judge would surely be able to help and they are more than willing, but the govt keeps ignoring these people and keeps neglecting religion, end result you have religion hijacked. as i said turn up in your local mosques, do your namaz with jamat there was a reason why jamat was farz, it keeps you engaged and aware of your community.
even private schools that are not funded by govt had to meet some minimum standards. so even madaaris not run by govt and masajid not funded by govt need to meet some standards.
I am in complete support of a govt mandated minimum standard of education and training until someone can be a khatib or imam at a masjid, I am also in complete support of a state mandated curriculum which must be adhered to and taught by teachers with certain specific education and certification requirements. whether the institute is public funded or private.
I agree with Khanbabax on that. There is a guard standing outside Macdonalds in Karachi with Ak47 in his hands. Is Macdonalds preaching terrorism.
This is again a wrong question. The gun held by the Mcdonalds guard is for defence/protection. The guns held by the lal masjid guys were for aggression. Those guns were used for holding off parents to collect their children, for firing at authorities who wanted to apprehend the Ghazi brothers for breaking the law.
The day McDonalds employees start marching out of their respective establishments and start shutting down other eateries by force, I"ll be the first in line to advocate a Govt. operation against McDonalds and getting their Manager and employees arrested. If during the attempt to arrest them, they refuse to come out, or try to use their Ak47 that they had for their defense, it will be considered an attack on the state and should be dealt as such.
When Police suspect somebody of being involved in a robbery, they present them with a warrant (if there aren't arleady cases filed against them), and arrest them, so that they can tried in the courts. If during the attempts to arrest them, they resist with weapons, the Police have to use weapons against them or we won't have a functioning society (and will be living in Afghanistan). This is how things have always worked, if you cant' figure that out, then I have ntohign else to say to you.
Khanbabax, lets keep it civil. The islam you are trying to represent does not teach the kind of aggression you just displayed. I noticed your hostility to other posters and did not engage in a debate with you directly.
