Just to clarify, no I'd not move due to shame - of course, it isnt the fault of the child. Rather, it would be to get the child completely away from the predator. This woman established a relationship with the boy and the minute she got out of jail, she went right back to him. Even if his mother had relocated, this woman would have done whatever she could to find him. Moving to another country would make things that much more difficult for her. IN shallah I would never have to face such a horrible situation but if I did, I would do everything and anything I could to prevent contact of any kind from a predator such as this woman from every coming anywhere near my boys. I am lucky in this respect, my family is here, nearby. And my husband's family is over in Pak...so moving over there, for whatever reason, would not be such a gargantuan deal. And I doubt that a "hot-looking" blondie teacher with a yen for little boys would follow....if she dared, I'd make sure that the "jihadis" would teach HER a lesson or two!!
Leaving the adultery aspect aside, and leaving aside that they weren’t married, I still think that the idea of a 30 year old and a 12 year old boy is nothing to warrant that much surprise. After all, didn’t the Prophet go for Aishaa who was herself (varies according to scholars) under age - he proposed to her before she even had gotten her period! So she wasn’t even sexually mature when asked to make a decision of marriage (which is just a legal way of sanctifying a sexual-oriented relationship with someone).
I’m surprised Islam’s history hasn’t been brought into this yet.
Islam's history aside, there are more things known about now than there were in history.
Again - 12 yrs old's are not equiped with adult thinking. My mother has a saying, a child can't see beyond their nose. As an adult you learn self comtrol and that every action has a reprecussion.
Sex can lead to STD's (he got her pregnant, do you think safe sex was an issue? She proved she was capable of having sex outside of her marriage, what makes anyone think it was her first time??). Sex can lead to pregnancy. Sex has a host of emotional issues that go along with it that a child is ill prepared to deal with, male or female.
If she really had any feelings for him, she would have waited until it was 1) appropriate and 2) legal. Instead she acted recklessly and with little regard for him. What makes anyone think she has any credibility? She tossed 3 children aside like tissue for another child she was having sex with to have 2 more children.
This was not love or anything close to it. It was a woman with poor impulse control that destroyed two families. Her family with her husband and kids, and the family of that child. Think about it, now the mother of that boy, not only has to deal with the fact that her son was raped, but now has another child she has to raise because of a woman who decided a 12 yr old was hot. She may care for it because it is also her son's, but how fair is that?
Again, all the legal issues aside.
He was a child with 2 children. Do you think he really thought of that when he was having sex? No........ because he was a child.
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Leaving the adultery aspect aside, and leaving aside that they weren't married, I still think that the idea of a 30 year old and a 12 year old boy is nothing to warrant that much surprise
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Then I suppose you have never been a 12 year old boy, have you? You will hardly find a boy that age who can get his willie to stand up for more then a second let alone play it out with a supposedly adult, experienced women who is also his educator. Most boys aren't even aware of what is really happening with their body at that point - let alone pet their confused hormones, settle their confused feelings and reason out sensibly that they are in love with a person who happens to be twice their age, their teacher and a guranteed sexual predator.
As much as we condone person liberty and the freedom of choice, hormones cannot always be allowed to have the run of your body and mind - specially if they screw with the life of another person.
Point is, she was a teacher. She was in a position of power - a situation that gave her tremendous leverage over her pupil. Even if she was geniunely in love with him, she wasn't supposed to bang his nuts out. She abused her rights, responsibilties and expectations. What she did was unprofessional, unethical and a classic case of straight-laced statuory rape. That is what she went to jail for. [The fact that she played the sex card skillfully enough and came out in less then 10 years really tells you something about the state of American Judicial system - It is a valueable lesson on American Jury mechanics]
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After all, didn't the Prophet go for Aishaa who was herself (varies according to scholars) under age - he proposed to her before she even had gotten her period!
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Oh come off it. Proposed? Hardly.
Anyway, if you can bring out concrete, historical evidence that he copulated with her before flowering, then what he did was abominable too.
Islamic History hasn't been brought in because a) It is not a fit analogy, b) Thankfully, In United States at least, they are supposed to work with facts, not muddled up myths.
And PCG, you know, in the time of the Prophet (pbuh) things were very different. At the age of 12 back in those times, it was very possible to be forward thinking and almost an adult at that age. They've seen life in all its glory and all its sadness by that age - no medicines, no grocery stores, no modern comforts. In this day and age, things are so very different.....
12 is just too young to be getting married and reproducing. Idont care how mature or forward thinking my boys are... if ever we had a situation like that one, we'd move to Pak. Period. And the woman would be hung from her toenails till ded if she tried to find us over there.
well just think about it....if there is no law and order, no grocery stores, etc etc then by the time you reach the age of 12, you've seen much and matured much more than the kids of today who are so protected....yes? maybe I'm wrong but really i dont think so.
Matsui -- No. It's all relative. Societal expectations for people at the age of 12 were different in that time and place from America in the 21st century. "Kids" were in a different place mentally and emotionally. Our 12 y/o are generally still kids just beginning adolescence. At other times and places they are on the verge of adulthood.
^ we are discussing it in the contexty of someone in a position of power and also someone who is twice as old as teh child/adult in question. Be it 7th century or be it 22nd. Wrong is wrong...
There was a For-TV movie shown on USA Networks (I think) about Mary K. Letourneau. The guy looked fairly mature for his age. Even the press reports at that time and now suggest that the guy was very serious and quite intriguing. He came from a broken family himself. Atleast in the movie, which is kinda based on authoritative interviews, they showed that he actually came on her many times and she snubbed him a number of times, before falling for him.
Anyway, that is all subjective. What is a fact is that after all the hooplah six years ago, the guy then dropped out of school and I don't think he completed any kind of formal education or is doing any kind of proper job or business now. So there may just be some truth that no matter who came on whom and what level of maturity the guy had at that time, and true love and all that.. the guy is emotionally traumatized. Whether it is because of the affair at such young age, or is it because of the publicity... I just don't think it did him all that good. And to be married to a registered sex offender... oh well, thats probably the easier thing to deal with, for this couple.
1st - No matter how many times he came on to he, he was a kid, a baby compared to her. Her duty as an adult and especially as a teacher was to do the right thing. Spreading her legs was not it.
2nd - a movie is played by actors. Actors can look mature, however if you had ever seen this kid, he was tiny. BUT that doesn't matter. He could have been a 6'4", 300lb monster and a KID. As a child (even a mature looking one, if he was), it was rape.
As to the rest of it, how many times as a young child did you develop a crush on your teacher? I can think of a few, even one in college that I sighed over. It happens and teachers know it happens, but she should not have done all she did. She was setting him up, plain and simple. She took him to her house everyday, she allowed him access to her home and kids, she knew he had a crush and he was making advances to her and she didn't shut him down - as any adult and especially teacher would have shut down a CHILD with a crush. You would think with her being a teacher, he would have furthered his education. Guess it is more important to her he stays in bed than better himself.
Oh yeah - they aren't married yet. Date's set for April.
Well, I think no one is going argue on behalf of MKL or her lover... but this whole '18 years of age' is kinda archaic line in the sand. Looking at some of the stuff the 'kids' get into these days, quite possibly a discussion will start soon to bring down the legal definition of 'adult'.
Already for the purpose of penalizing youngsters that get into serious crimes, many states have brought down the age to '14' to treat them as adults. From a kids standpoint, its only fair that they get some upside too.
They are tried as adults for committing a murder. The logical question is why does the society treats them as adults when it is time to punish them and treat them as kids when it comes to pleasures (sex, alcohol, smoking etc). I am not advocating any point of view, just saying that these are all logical questions.
More basic question is whoever came up with the age of 18, what was the justification and is that justification still valid? Due to an overload of information (magazines, schools, internet, peers, etc) are the kids these days already more mature at their age compared to kids of, say, 100 years ago?
That's what I'm saying. If he's coming onto his teacher at the age of 12 and has the guts to get her pregnant twice, AND is living up to it and marrying her (which whatever anybody says about the kid, I think that is impressive)...he ain't no kid.
She was a teacher AND the adult and the one in “power” in the situation. He didn’t “bang” just another person he banged someone who was not supposed to be in that type of relationship with him…
Yes he’s producing sperm etc but we live in a society where our people mature sexually young but wait 4-10 years b4 they have sex/marry…is this warped? do we want to go back to people marrying as soon as they are sexually mature..not sure if that’ swhat we want.
tat in my opinion is the HEIGHT of sickness.. u are first of all condoning the crime that this female has indulged in and u are doing that by arguing the guy was no kid.. whats next in ur line? are u gonna justify incest next?? ANY society in this world (at least modern world) does NOT approve sexual relations with a child for good reason.. DO YOU WANT TO BE A MOTHER IF U WERE A 13 YR-OLD?? and if u think i am being rude to you with my caps, YES I AM!! i am seriously disgusted with the muck u are spreading in this forum.. jokes aren’t appropriate in every occasion..
anyways, enough of my bitching… miss free-thinker, could you be kind enough to answer my question? lets say there is a 12 yr old girl in my colony who is sexually mature enough to become a mother.. now do i go and bang her if she is willing?? wud u be happy with that?? i haven’t gotten a response to my previous post and i don’t expect one to this either.. and yeah if u can answer civilly please do so, no name-calling like “punk, creep” etc.. i wud rather not get a response from u in that case.
Some teens experiment with others, that will happen, as a parent you wish it wouldn't, but it is understandable. A boy will try to have sex with a willing girl, that is natural. It is not a crime. Both should be taught a bit better from their parents, but again, NOT a crime. A pain in the neck to deal with, maybe a mistake in the works, but NOT a crime.
A person who is an adult, in a position of power, having sex with a child, is a crime. Nothing else.
A child who is taken advantage of by a person in a position of power is not guilty of anything. It is not a crime done by the child, it is not the child's fault. The ADULT should have known better and the ADULT should have taken the necessary steps to avoid the situation. Not the child. That is why they are children. ADULTS should and do know better.
Murder is not sexual abuse, prosecuting children for murder is a whole heck of a lot different than prosecuting a child for being sexually abused by an adult. One is done to a child, one is done by a child. Children do not have the right of consent, children cannot enter into contracts, therefore an adult (even the child says yes and says they are ready) cannot legally have the defense of 'they wanted it'. It is absurd.
Yes he's producing sperm etc but we live in a society where our people mature sexually young but wait 4-10 years b4 they have sex/marry...is this warped? do we want to go back to people marrying as soon as they are sexually mature..not sure if that' swhat we want.
I guess then you would find the Prophet's ways a bit backwards?
lets say there is a 12 yr old girl in my colony who is sexually mature enough to become a mother.. now do i go and bang her if she is willing?? wud u be happy with that??
bang away. If you're muslim, then propose to the girl first and marry her with a nikkah. arab sheikhs do it all the time. Notice that I clarified that LEAVING ASIDE the fact that she was married, etc...focusing entirely on the age difference component. There are other componenets to the incident, but what I'm attacking is the legal laws that say "18 is when you're mature enough to have sex with a 30 year old". Why not younger and why not older?
You're missing the point of my argument, desibanda
