Martial law has been declared in Egypt

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Re: Martial law has been declared in Egypt

A nice post with facts to ponder … hmmm …

Breaking of promises, persecuting minorities legally (hudud-ordinance), discriminating and suppressing their rights, letting Kharjees killing people in the name of Islam, persecuting political opposition, breaking laws and … even banning Musharraf for life from contesting election (something not even Pakistani constitution allows but when persecution is concerned, laws never bar people in position), and so on … all in the name of democracy !!!

Are you talking about Egypt or Pakistan? :slight_smile:
`
As for your comment ‘in the name of Islam’: Behaviour of so-called Muslims in the name of Islam always amazes me. Just imagine, a retard (of Nusra party in Syria) calling himself Muslim warrior showed his character by literally cutting out heart of Syrian soldier and eating the heart raw [what Hinda, mother of Muawiya and wife of Abu Sufiyan, did to Hamza (RA) after he got Shaheed in Gazwa-e-Uhad] … digging and destroying the grave of Sahabi Hujr (RA) and then exposing his remains that they took away to desecrate (something even kafirs would not do, take revenge on graves Muslims value) … threatening to attack and destroy grave of Prophet (SAW) grand-daughter …and so on … and what? … All is getting done in the name of Islam … and so-called Muslims on various forums supporting these rascals and their activities in the name of Islam … what a joke.

Well, what Nusra party in Syria doing is nothing unique, as that is what Kharjees (army of Shaitan) are doing in Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Algeria, Libya, Iraq, and other Muslim countries, all in the name of Islam.

Syrian rebels desecrate grave of Prophet?s (saws) Companion, take remains away,www.crescent-online.net, Crescent Magazine

I think, however good or bad they were, certainly Mubarrak, Saddam, and Qaddafi were much better than Kharjees trying to get into power in Muslim countries, by hook or crook … using Islam as their tool.

My purpose of this thread was to look at what happened in Egypt and compare that with situation in Pakistan, so please give your comments and opinions on what Pakistan deserves taking cue from Egypt, as though it was valid reasons Morsi government got sacked by army … what Pakistani politicians in power do and keep doing while in power, are worse then what Morsi did while holding office in Egypt.

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Re: Martial law has been declared in Egypt

Funny you mention these things… most of them happened during military rule in Pakistan.

Yes, it seems things are similar in Egypt… Lets see what the former Air Chief of Egypt has been up to…

Egyptian Prosecutor-General seeks INTERPOL arrest of Ahmed Shafiq

…Shafiq, his three daughters, and 10 other officials face charges of illegal seizure of land owned by the Cooperative Housing Association for Military Pilots in the Suez Canal area, when it was headed by the former presidential candidate.

Additionally, Shafiq and another Association board member also face money laundering charges amounting to five million Egyptian pounds ($740,000 US)…

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Re: Martial law has been declared in Egypt

regardless of what he represents he was the elected president and he has been removed because the military did not like him. So much for respecting the public mandate. i am not his supporter but come on you should not let your biases support such stupid moves.

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Re: Martial law has been declared in Egypt

If anything wrong has happened during military rule, it was duty of politicians to correct that.

Anyhow: You cannot compare army with politicians, as both uses different source of strength to get in to power.

Army do not come into power on strength of people, but they come on strength of guns … so you cannot apply same rule for them what you apply for someone who came to power on strength of people.

Army does what they want … so if they do work for benefit of people, than that is bonus.

People who come using democracy then they are supposed to work for benefit of people as that is the force that got them in. If they do work for benefit of people than that is not bonus but duty.

If people who get into power using strength of people and do not work for benefit of people, they violate duty of their office. In such situation, people stop supporting them (that include army, as army itself is part of people) … so army takes over. No big deal.

If person in power coming on strength of people, and have support from people (that include army) then there is no strength in country that could get that person out of power.

But what happens?

When army comes in toppling rule of corrupt politicians … people distribute sweets and when army general leave many still remembers and appreciate his rule as much better rule then thugs that come using demon-crazy system. All shows that thug politicians in power are not people’s representative but thugs who pretend to be people's representative.

I bet if in election, a box would be there for choice of 'army takeover' as candidate, most of the time army would win election in Pakistan, as even though strength of army is gun, whenever they are in power, they work for benefit of people much more compared to thug politicians … so they have also gained strength form people’s acceptance.

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Re: Martial law has been declared in Egypt

:omg:

You contradict yourself so much it makes dehi of one dimagh :smiley:

All the evils of Pakistani society you noticed were started and promoted by military men and you;

  1. claim they work for benefit of people,
  2. want politicians to clean that up without giving them ample opportunity?

Nice. :smiley:

I hate corrupt politicians as much as you do or maybe as much as military does. If military had actually DONE something about it, I would support you and military. Sadly, they are as corrupt as politicians… in Pakistan and in Egypt.

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Re: Martial law has been declared in Egypt

^^^ Zia brought hudud ordinance and blasphemy law… politicians ruled for 11 years after Zia. What they did? Nawaz introduced capital punishment into hudud ordinance and blasphemy law. No politicians in 11 years did anything about wrongs that Zia introduced.

In 1973 Bhutto sacked Baluchistan government and civil war started. Bhutto did wrong sacking Baluchistan government, but even after that, seeing civil war started, he did nothing to negotiate and stop civil war, even though it was costing 100s of civilian and army men lives. Zia came to power and he negotiated and stopped civil war in Baluchistan. Zia did used police against MRD movement in Sindh persecuting many, but same was done by Bhutto, BeNazir as well as Nawaz, using army and police force to persecute their opponents. Zia negotiated with people wherever needed, gave much better performance as far as economy, poverty elevation, and law and order, was concerned, and was also more listening to people’s grievances … but Bhutto, BeNazir or Nawaz, they never believed on negotiation or listening to people grievances, were uncompromising idiots throughout, gave very bad performance when it comes to economics, poverty elevation of people, law and order, and anything that one can consider could be good for people and country.

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Re: Martial law has been declared in Egypt

Yes ... Indians (bless them) are not as mentally free as the Pakistanis by a long shot.

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Re: Martial law has been declared in Egypt

The correct phrase is Doppleganger - that Libya and Egypt were ok with them for many years ... and when they were no longer ok with them then they were ousted ... Albeit that Libya was a very different case than Egypt.

Mursi did not last long ... because the people were not happy with him -

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Re: Martial law has been declared in Egypt

Billi ko chichron key khawb

So army staged a coup somehwere in the world, Altaf apologist gets excited. Wake up, Musharraf is under arrest and begging for an exit.

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Re: Martial law has been declared in Egypt

Uncle You just OWNED PD with this POST :d6c:

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Re: Martial law has been declared in Egypt

janab sir jee....where did i say in this post that I appreciate what army did or that army shd have done that long time ago?

I was commenting on morsi and muslim brotherhood's modus ope*****.... using religion as a tool.

and that many posters would defend morsi and brotherhood tactics by bringing gazallion reasons....bashing morsi does not automatically mean that i am supporting army action.

I have fundamental problem with this concept of political religion and i consider it a dictatorship as well but I am not using my bias (if you call it a bias) to support military dictatorship. these are 2 different topics. I know it is not clear in this post but in my later posts i made it crystal clear.

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Re: Martial law has been declared in Egypt

mohthram janab VP Paklinks sahib…I know you are a busy man ! so u obviously did not get a chance to read some of my later posts…in which i clearly and categorically did not support military action:

http://www.paklinks.com/gs/images/misc/quote_icon.png

Originally Posted by Doppleganger http://www.paklinks.com/gs/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png
So, in essence, you were ok with Mubarak or qadhafi?

NOP…that is dictatorship
and i dont support this coup either
plz dont confuse issues.
i was just reflecting on morsi and muslim brotherhood’s modus ope**…using religion as a tool.***

and before that I said in post 12 that what is done is done but now
“bottom line…Egyptian military needs to prove that there is a very quick path getting back on track democratically …if they do it, they will have support of Egyptian people and international community otherwise it will be tough for them”

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Re: Martial law has been declared in Egypt

Ehsan bhai

It's true they did not like him, but it's not true that that was reason of him being deposed. It made it easier to take him down, but the reason was that his policies were suffocating the people and his government had a negative effect on their economy. There were some who were supporting him, but none supported him so ardently that they felt the need to fight the army to defend him.

The Egyptians were like a rabbit caught in the headlights when the old regime were taken down. They were not ready for the end of dictatorship ... They wanted some time to pick up, but the already semi-organised Ikhwan managed to gain a foothold, but were not up to the task. Another big mistake made by Mursi's was to establish his constitution so quickly without much buy in.

I am not a fan of the sort of democracy that blames people for voting in an incompetent person then insists that he should be given a chance. People change their minds and hence democratically leadership should be fluid ... Otherwise it is really only democracy by name ... Just like most Western democracies ...

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Re: Martial law has been declared in Egypt

He was an elected president and should have been allowed to complete his term or remove him as per the constitution. That is what elections are there for, if the guy does not perform kick him out. That is what happened with PPP, they didnt perform they got kicked out. The democratic process should be allowed to continue instead of running to the military to come to your rescue. The Egyptian military is like the Pakistani one, only too eager to grab power

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Re: Martial law has been declared in Egypt

I am with EB on this.

Ejypt is where we were 10-20 year ago, where letting things move freely scared us all.
After a little while of democracy, only saviours army had to “rescue” the country.

But then we took punishment like no has seen, then see now non army institutes are being talked about.
Those institutes are crippling but trying to walk.

Be proud all pakistanis, we are like one light year ahead of arab spring. :salute:

psyah brother, things find there balance, no matter how hardheaded mentality a new regime brings after a major change, they eventually have to mellow down, no one can make people suffer all the time, they may make them fool all the time. But then fools are the happiest people. look :smiley: :smiley:

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Re: Martial law has been declared in Egypt

Conversely had there been no incompetency by the government then the Ikhwani's would have become stronger and stronger and I though not being aligned to them religio-politically would still say that they should be followed and the Ikhwani rule respected.

Our own scholars have openly said to us that they will reluctantly accept Ikhwani or Salafi leadership, it's not ideal but they will insist we respect the system by which power changes hands. We don't seek or desire power and neither do our scholars ... Those who are in power may seek council from the scholars who I profess to, for the betterment of their longevity in government. And they know they will be given good advice ... Because it will be coming from those who do not desire it. The contention with Ikhwani and Salafi is that they think imposing law will fulfil the law ... And although many will stand up against them ... None of the traditional Sufis will be the ones bothering to do that ... Because they have already accepted this life as a prison.

Wanna rule? fine ... Just don't oppress ... That is the crux of the message coming from our traditional scholars.

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Re: Martial law has been declared in Egypt

Yes ... But the people wanted blood ... They didn't want to wait until the end of the term for more mistakes by Mursi ... The people were impatient the memory of the Arab Spring still fresh on their minds ... In this instance the military did the right thing ... It prevented a greater Fitnah.

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Re: Martial law has been declared in Egypt

Do you really want me to use the Monk translator?

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Re: Martial law has been declared in Egypt

Why do you lie to prove your defective out dated line of thinking? MRD movement was crushed by military during mardood Zia-ul-Haq regime. Did you remember killing of 23 people at Thori Phatak by military?

http://dawncompk.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/mrd-activist.jpg?w=670

MRD activist shot dead by military troops in Moro, Sindh, September 1983. –Photo Courtesy: BBC

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Re: Martial law has been declared in Egypt

Okay this thread definitely does not hold any relevance to Pakistan affairs. Moving it to WA.