Re: Marrying transxual/middle-sex
tobah tobah.. what the heck LHC have to do with gender change… :hmmm: ..
Re: Marrying transxual/middle-sex
^you know . report came in the dude who got his sex change. was seen with that same LHC judge on a beach in dubai.
I dont think that anyone is making fun of the 'dulhan' in this thread. Most of the people are making fun of the Dulha here. Over all, most of us are having a light hearted conversation.
Perhaps there is not ill intent in the fun that is being poked. Sometimes jokes are made without any bad intent.
I don't mean to be argumentative and ask for the sake of intelligent discussion--when you say you are making fun of the dhula, of what exactly are you making fun?
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Plus it is very evident that even the dulhan is just a cross dresser and not a genetically disordered he/she.
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There was a time when I did not know much about transgendered folks and have learned more about through college courses and actually meeting transgendered folks. To share what I know with others who have not come across the same information:
At time of fetus development certain processes occur that define the sex and gender of the fetus. Sex refers to the physical identity (sexual anatomy) and gender refers to the mental identity (with which sex one identifies psychologically). In some cases, this process does not proceed as it should and the sex and gender are not clearly defined, thus creating an ambiguous result. Indeed it is a condition with which people are born, and it is not a choice.
There was a famous experiment done by doctors on a pair of twins where they tried to raise a transgendered boy as a girl, trying to prove that gender is taught by upbringing. However, their experiment and hypothesis failed. The child had a male gender (psychological identity) which led to problems due to a conflict between the sex (physical identity) and gender (psychological identity).
This is one difficulty that TG folks face: a conflict between the psychological identity, and the body and upbringing one is given. This confusion about identity creates psychological distress. The other difficulty is lack of acceptance, mocking, and persecution by a world that might not understand the situation. I have come to develop sympathy for them. I have come to learn that these two together create much distress, sometimes leading to suicidal thoughts.
There are different reasons why a man might crossdress. One possible reason is the transgender issue--psychologically the person feels to be a woman and feels to be in the wrong body. It is for this reason some people undergo the process to change the sex.
Thus, I am not sure we can say the dhulan is simply a crossdresser and not one who is transgendered.
Its not about any person, its about the "act" of shadi between a male and a cross-gender. Tell me honestly how many times have you seen, heard or participated in this sorta shaadi??? So its all about its uniqueness.
Fair enough. Let's hear you out.
Sure, it is a shadi that is unusual. It is unusual because most of the population is not transgendered and I imagine transgendered people have trouble finding willing partners.
When you say it's not about the person, it's about the act, I assume you mean why it is mock worthy. But does mocking the situation (that a man is marrying a transgendered man who wants to be a woman) not a result of being transgendered?
Should a transgendered person not be allowed to get married and have a partner? I think everyone wants to have a companion.
I think the objections you see are from those who feel empathy that this couple, regardless of whether they were trying to marry (as alleged) or not (as claimed by them), has been arrested (alongside their guests) and made a spectacle. It is a matter of persecution of a minority who was born that way. And so it is a matter of civil rights.
I dont think that anyone is making fun of the 'dulhan' in this thread. Most of the people are making fun of the Dulha here. Over all, most of us are having a light hearted conversation. Plus it is very evident that even the dulhan is just a cross dresser and not a genetically disordered he/she.
Babian non light hearted guftgu pasand nai andi tillo:D
aur muttafiq hon main ke her koi tareef ker rah ahai Dullhan ki siwaey aik booby lover ke:D
Perhaps there is not ill intent in the fun that is being poked. Sometimes jokes are made without any bad intent.
I don't mean to be argumentative and ask for the sake of intelligent discussion--when you say you are making fun of the dhula, of what exactly are you making fun?
There was a time when I did not know much about transgendered folks and have learned more about through college courses and actually meeting transgendered folks. To share what I know with others who have not come across the same information:
At time of fetus development certain processes occur that define the sex and gender of the fetus. Sex refers to the physical identity (sexual anatomy) and gender refers to the mental identity (with which sex one identifies psychologically). In some cases, this process does not proceed as it should and the sex and gender are not clearly defined, thus creating an ambiguous result. Indeed it is a condition with which people are born, and it is not a choice.
There was a famous experiment done by doctors on a pair of twins where they tried to raise a transgendered boy as a girl, trying to prove that gender is taught by upbringing. However, their experiment and hypothesis failed. The child had a male gender (psychological identity) which led to problems due to a conflict between the sex (physical identity) and gender (psychological identity).
This is one difficulty that TG folks face: a conflict between the psychological identity, and the body and upbringing one is given. This confusion about identity creates psychological distress. The other difficulty is lack of acceptance, mocking, and persecution by a world that might not understand the situation. I have come to develop sympathy for them. I have come to learn that these two together create much distress, sometimes leading to suicidal thoughts.
There are different reasons why a man might crossdress. One possible reason is the transgender issue--psychologically the person feels to be a woman and feels to be in the wrong body. It is for this reason some people undergo the process to change the sex.
Thus, I am not sure we can say the dhulan is simply a crossdresser and not one who is transgendered.
Fair enough. Let's hear you out.
Sure, it is a shadi that is unusual. It is unusual because most of the population is not transgendered and I imagine transgendered people have trouble finding willing partners.
When you say it's not about the person, it's about the act, I assume you mean why it is mock worthy. But does mocking the situation (that a man is marrying a transgendered man who wants to be a woman) not a result of being transgendered?
Should a transgendered person not be allowed to get married and have a partner? I think everyone wants to have a companion.
I think the objections you see are from those who feel empathy that this couple, regardless of whether they were trying to marry (as alleged) or not (as claimed by them), has been arrested (alongside their guests) and made a spectacle. It is a matter of persecution of a minority who was born that way. And so it is a matter of civil rights.
You need to slow down a bit there buddy!
You are trying to invoke things which are not applicable where the alleged marriage was to happen.
You need to respect the laws of land wherever they are and not try to force others to follow your ideas.
I am only talking about the last part of your post.
It is quite possible that this was kinky relationship and they used the excuse of marrying each other to have some form of legitimacy.
I don't think you or anyone really knows what exactly was the situation and your whole idea of invoking minority right , civil right or any so called discrimination issue is not justified.
Re: Marrying transxual/middle-sex
The marriage is between a man and a woman.
This holds true in Pakistan and in many other countries.
This so called couple broke the law of the land and law of nature as defined by majority of this world population over the centuries.
No room for any philosophical, moral or legal discussion to justify this act.
alot of these khusras can easily live their lives as males and not cause so much attention upon themselves....yea maybe they can not get married and have kids like normal people but they dont have to beg and dance for money. i believe if they dont try so hard to act weird and get attention, they can live fairly normally
You are trying to invoke things which are not applicable where the alleged marriage was to happen.
Let's have a good discussion. What specifically do you mean--which things am I trying to invoke that are not applicable where the alleged marriage was to happen?
[quote]
I am only talking about the last part of your post.
I don't think you or anyone really knows what exactly was the situation and your whole idea of invoking minority right , civil right or any so called discrimination issue is not justified.
[/QUOTE]
Let's separate the issues. Let's first talk about the issue generally regardless of whether it is what was occurring in the specific issue at hand. The last part of my post says:
1) I think a transgendered person should be allowed to get married and have a companion.
2) I think it is unfortunate that they were arrested and made a spectacle. They were arrested because one person is a transgendered.
3) A transgendered person is born that way, and transgendered persons represent a minority. Laws or social norms that keep a minority from living like others and to have a companion are unfair to that minority.
4) Laws or ways that are unfair to a minority are a matter of social justice and civil rights.
With which part do you disagree?
Next let us bring in the specific issue. The general situation I describe is that a transgendered person was trying to marry and was arrested. Do you think the specific situation at hand is different? If so, what leads you to think so?
The marriage is between a man and a woman.
This holds true in Pakistan and in many other countries.
This so called couple broke the law of the land and law of nature as defined by majority of this world population over the centuries.
No room for any philosophical, moral or legal discussion to justify this act.
There is no room for legal discussion because it is law.
There is room, however, for philosophical or moral discussions. There are countless laws that have been changed over the course of time because they were unfair or incomplete.
Can you explain your rationale about why a transgendered person should not be allowed to marry?
Why is it fair (based on social justice versus legal justice) for it to be illegal for a person to not be able to marry and have a companion based on how the person was born?
If nature has created transgendered persons, why is it against the law of nature for a transgendered person to marry and seek companionship?
**Bilkul I agree aur jahan tak hansney ka taluq hai in per nahi is bat per hansi a rahi hai ke Shadi ka ju maqsad hai woh kaisey hasil hu ga that mean G*o English main boly tu Al hai banda:cb: Whatever agar sorf dosti hi maqsad hai tu shadi ke baghyr bhi aisi dosti hu sakti hai oper se Muslims ke nikah main na tu sat pheery katy jaty hain na war mala change kertey hain ke jin ke bagheyr yeh mery ja rahy they:D Itny boring se nikah ke liey becharey giraftar hoey so sad though:(
**
**O mian aisi companionship ke liey Nikah ya shadi ki rasam zarori nahi:smack: abbey itna piyar aur tras a raha tha Sangeeta per tu os ke naam jaidad main hisa likh daita shadi ka bandhan shart nahi wasiyat ke liey 
do you have any idea why people get married BTW :aq:(asan lafzon main KHABRADAR don’t say:ASA: Companionship now ok )shadi ke baad kiya hota hai pata hai haqooq-e-zojiat kiya hotey hain:aq:
Waisy you are so tander hearted I appriciate that X2 ke Multi
Aap jaisey aik do 1/2 aur hu jain tu Pakistan janat n aban jaey:jhanda:
**
Re: Marrying transxual/middle-sex
check this,.. just in: :hehe:
Re: Marrying transxual/middle-sex
:D