Re: Marrying a non-muslim who is NOT ready to convert..
I am assuming your brother is not merely some hormonal late teens early 20's type of fellow who will pick and drop as most chaps do these days (damned shamefull if you aks me) I gather that he seems to have given the matter some forethought.
Personally I would be very concerned but that is becuase I am fiercely conservative, but not to the point that I am ignorant of others and thier feelings. So if he genuinely feels for her and sometimes love is more than just a physical attraction, often two partners become inseperable due to shared characteristics and beliefs so whatever it is in "her" he has part of it too if you get my drift.
Something suggests to me that your Brother has not looked at other options, but I knew a chap once who left Pakistan after many years of trying to settle down and his efforts were wasted so in the end he went with the only girl who truly loved him but that meant Marrying a fiercely conservative Irish Catholic... long story.
Anyway I think you all need to sit down and talk things through I am by no means an expert on the matter but perhaps heres a few things you could ask him to consider...
Does he realise the risk he is running... nothing major like stigma or anything but down the line either party could simply melt away for example one day she might take to something he does not like or vice versa..?
Has he considered what his Children will come to? It would be very hard deciding whos faith the Children would stick too at the end of the day you could end up with poor kids not knowing fish or fowl?
Does he have any idea what the changes will do to your fammily and hers if as you say both fammilies have deep roots it might cause some trouble?
Yes, you are right, my brother is not a teenager rather a mature, sane person whom we usually take as a non-emotional person rather using his brain. But here , despite his all claims that he's using his wisdom and he's NOT doing anything wrong, I think he's on the wrong track. And thats where we need to either stop him or atleast make him aware of what he's pulling himself into.
I explained to him that he's exposing himself to a vulnerable situation where there are chances that bad things can happen more than the good ones, he says he understands the risk and willingfully ready to accept this unorthodox way where people avoid going to.
But since he's my brother and I see that he may be ending up into too many problems, it crushes my heart. And so is my mother's!
i don't think it's a big issue coz you don't know if things would turn up right even with a muslim girl/bhabi.....desis have more issues with desi DILs anyway.
Hareem, its not about SIL or DIL, its about my brother falling for a non-muslim and then flowing away with it. And honestly my mom is scared on this part as well as my mom is not that fluent in english while my bro's would-be wife would not know urdu so there'll remain a huge communication gap. And that'll continue with their next generation as well..
I'm sure all the elders in your family have already talked to him and tried to change his mind. If he is stubborn about it, let him be. He's an adult and I'm sure he clearly knows what Islam has to say about marriage with non-muslims. That's where the power of free will comes in. He's in love with a non-muslim with whom he foresees a happy married life, good for him. He has chosen to go against the Quran, not so good for him. You have fulfilled your role as a responsible muslim to try and educate your brother about this matter and there's nothing much you can do about it at this stage. Worrying about pros and cons and kids and society isn't going to achieve much.
BBQ, he says he's not stubborn and he's ready to talk bout that should be highly logical talk with valid reasoning, I mean if we say that its not good for him we have to prove him with examples and quotes. And honestly I'm not good at doing debates like that. This is the reason I want to know all pros and cons so that next time when I talk to him I can put these in front of him and realize him that he's falling for something that looks glittering now but may turn into pricks.
**i pray that thats the case but i doubt...its practically impossible...they are just trying to passify the opposition to their marriage. i believe ur brother himself is NOT very religious otherwise he would think about the whole thing 100 times and come to the same conclusion that this kinda arrangement will not work.
i KNOW a couple, [husband - a very religious Egyptian (he became religious after the marriage) and wife is a staunch christian (she also became religious after the marriage)], now after 30 years of marriage are totally at odds...sons are Muslims and daughters are Christians...they have lost all the contacts back home in Egypt. It is a MESS for him.
its a very serious issue and ur brothers will probably not listen to any reasoning so i see a very unpleasant situation. i pray that this doesn't happen that way. **
Sigh.. Yes he's not that much religious but what I'm afraid is that, unknowingly he'll draft further away from religion especially when supposedly once he gets married and starts living with his wife who herself will be church-going. And then the biggest chapter will start when children will be there and man, i can only see a mess after that, you are quite right!
As long as it is VERY clear and VERY much understood by the girl that the children will follow Islam, this marriage can work. Children are the most important factor here, other than that, he's an adult he can handle it.
The girl is agreeing right now that he'll allow my brother to let children be Muslims, but I've a strong feeling that what if she doesnt keep this promise.. As a conservative catholic, what if she or may be her parents would like to have her children church-going as well??!! And since I know my brother is respectful for faith and Islam but not a practicing muslim, it'll be hard for him to do everything on his own and he may give it up very soon! It really doesnt sound right.
Nikkah with a believing Christian woman is valid. But the children must be bought up in Islam and it will be your brother's responsibility. He will be answerable to this.
IMO this is the major thing they need to discuss right now. She will have to accept this fact and agree that she will allow it and not try to pull the children in the other direction. If your brother doesn't care/mind what the children are bought up as, or if she says they should be free to choose and your brother accepts that - then that's his business. You should make him aware of what his religious obligations are and then it's up to him to decide what he feels more strongly for.
The other issues are her family, since they are conservative Christians. I'm sure they will want to be a part of her life and her family and even if she agrees now that the children will be bought up muslim, she may change her mind if her family say it's not right etc. So that can be the cause of conflict later in life.
Everything else comes down to her character and personality (whether or not she will fit into your family), which we cannot comment on.
If your brother accepts that he wants them bought up in an Islamic environment, he will need to be prepared to make sure that environment exists and that can be pretty hard unless he has a lot of support from your family. If they will live far away after marriage, it will be quite difficult. So these issues really need to be discussed and ironed out now if they are important to him.
Exactly, thats what everyone of us especially I'm worried about! What is agreed upon right now, would not necessarily be acted upon the same way. And its very simple, when that girl is not ready to accept Islam right now, how can she'll let her children be good muslims later on! For now my brother says he'll take care of it, but how, that I dont understand!
Last night when I spoke to him, I gave him the example of our upbringing when our mother actually worked her heart out to have a good muslim upbringing. In most of the families, the early development esp is done by the mother and that's why most of kids incline towards mothers the most. In this case, if it happens, they'll be going to church rather than mosques. It'll not only be shameful but also something that my bro will have no control upon.
i don;t think should be problem, my parents are the case and we siblings were raised up in an islamic environment.
HM, can u plz let me know about yourself more? May be your example can help me determine the way out. You can PM me if you want. Thanks.
Sorry, it’s confusing, I haven’t read up on this topic before as you can tell.