Hi all,
Sometimes, I don’t grab the idea/philosphy of weddings/marriages or so called Nikkah. Stop Stop, Don’t take me wrong, I explain you what i meant here. Well I admit as being a muslim and i have no right to raise any Q’s or futile thoughts against Islam. But i understand everything of Islam from its philosphy, when we take a look to islam rules, mostly things work out in our real life. However wedding sound me more legal contract, Being in a long-term relationship and in a strong bond with unknow from different nature person may harm/disturb our lifestyle.
Why we can’t survive as a individual in whole life or why Islam forbids relationships?
If couple is happy and looking for a long-term relationship, Isn’t their trust for eachother is ENOUGH, why they need this legal document?
I want to grab the real meaning/philosphy of wedding/marriages and Nikkah Document concept in terms of Islam and society?
If we can live a full life with a single wife and vice-versa, then why not we can live a full life with a same person without nikkah?
If nikkah is a proof document of a relationship, then why not we have any proof for being Muslim? We have just a kalma and hidden relation with our God?
There are state laws, religious laws and nature laws. Love belongs to the law of nature which should be the same everywhere. Religious laws differ from society to society whereas state laws differ from place to place.
You can prove your love to your beloved one without any piece of paper but for others to accept that you two have the "natural bond," you need to present evidence -- which, in Islam, is the Nikah document.
why we can't declare it in simply words, like we 'r now husband & wife. Why we need this declaration in a piece of paper. what kind of conscience or idea of ALLAH (SWT) behind this.
The idea is to give you more confidence in declaring your marriage. It secures you in any unwanted situation; you have witnesses to testify the condition the marriage took place, the signatures of couple means acceptance by both and the document itself declares that you two are indeed husband and wife. The legal document affirms the authenticity of your relationship.
Lets say you're emigrating with your wife, now the immigration would ask to present the proof in order to judge the authenticity of your words. If you fail to provide any legally supported testimony, he's got all the rights to disqualify your wife's emigration. There are many other cases in which Nikkah document can be quite useful. A spouse can claim for his/her rights on the basis of Nikkah Document.
Laws of any sort are meant to minimize the risks of dispute. The basic idea of Nikkah Document is to avoid any ethical or legal dilemma that you may get yourself into.
yeah it is sort of pretty unfair if you get married to someone who you have not dated first for a while and then when you're married you find out you've got major combatibility problems.
and this can happen a lot knowing the way our pkstni marriages are arranged.
it sucks so bad for the girls.
but i guess no one ever said life was fair.
There are state laws, religious laws and nature laws. Love belongs to the law of nature which should be the same everywhere. Religious laws differ from society to society whereas state laws differ from place to place.
You can prove your love to your beloved one without any piece of paper but for others to accept that you two have the "natural bond," you need to present evidence -- which, in Islam, is the Nikah document.
so others are blind and need a piece of paper to really believe that you're in love?
so ultimately, all us humans want is to be accepted by others? if we don't provide them with evidence, then they won't accept us?
marriage, nikkah or whatever is just to seal the deal...and only has to do with the state/religion. it also gives couples a sense of security.
so others are blind and need a piece of paper to really believe that you're in love? so ultimately, all us humans want is to be accepted by others? if we don't provide them with evidence, then they won't accept us? marriage, nikkah or whatever is just to seal the deal...and only has to do with the state/religion. it also gives couples a sense of security.
Having a Nikkah document doesn't guarantee that the couple's in love, some marriages exist for the sake of other formalities, so proving you're in love by presenting a "piece of paper" is nonsense anyway. Others aren't blind but an evidence is necessary in cases like one I mentioned about immigration.
The ultimate approach isn't entirely about acceptance by others but to save yourself from trouble and to have yourselves recognized as a couple. Putting Nikkah Document aside, an exchange of rings and having a wedding ceremony can manifest your acceptance of the relationship. It's not a lot different than having your 16th birthday and lighting 16 candles on your cake.
In most cases, I don't think Nikkah/Marriage seals or secures a relationship; it may secure a relationship to the extent of understanding the rights and responsibilities but afterall, couples do get divorced and relationships still get broken. And on the other hand, your friend's mom's been living with her boyfriend for 15 years, doesn't that sound like a pretty secured relationship without a "piece of paper?"
well then that's not the point of getting married...for the sake of immigration. darn you pakiz!
like i have said earlier, you can prove that you're a couple without having to whip out a nikkah document.
incidents where children don't know who their fathers/mothers are, aren't always a result of making babies with a partner you're not married to. plus, you're
looking at common law families udner a negative light. not all of them are from homes where the father runs away after sperminating the woman. MANY
are probably more civil, well mannered, and "normal" than a family of a legally married couple.
i have an answer for this question but i dont think the ppl on this forrum will like it.
Re: Marriages/weddings/nikkah Just A Legal Contract?
Actually in Islam you don't need any paper. You do need to declare each other husband and wife infront of 2 witnesses. Marriage is important because it gives us rights over each other which might not be clear in a random relationship.
well then that's not the point of getting married...for the sake of immigration. darn you pakiz!
I used it as an example, be a little thoughtful and you'll have many more examples in your head.
incidents where children don't know who their fathers/mothers are, aren't always a result of making babies with a partner you're not married to.
*Maybe not always but most likely in majority.
*
plus, you're looking at common law families udner a negative light. not all of them are from homes where the father runs away after sperminating the woman. MANY are probably more civil, well mannered, and "normal" than a family of a legally married couple.
**I didn't put them in a negative light. I just emphasized the importance of family; and how marriage, in certain cases, can help to keep the members together.
A married couple can abandon their kids, too. But their registered marriage may serve their kid to know who their parents were/are. It's a system and system is always made to make your life easier. Ultimately, it's all about how compatible you are. But I still think that marriage is a better option. **
Hi all, Sometimes, I don't grab the idea/philosphy of weddings/marriages or so called Nikkah. Stop Stop, Don't take me wrong, I explain you what i meant here. Well I admit as being a muslim and i have no right to raise any Q's or futile thoughts against Islam. But i understand everything of Islam from its philosphy, when we take a look to islam rules, mostly things work out in our real life. However wedding sound me more legal contract, Being in a long-term relationship and in a strong bond with unknow from different nature person may harm/disturb our lifestyle. Why we can't survive as a individual in whole life or why Islam forbids relationships? If couple is happy and looking for a long-term relationship, Isn't their trust for eachother is ENOUGH, why they need this legal document? I want to grab the real meaning/philosphy of wedding/marriages and Nikkah Document concept in terms of Islam and society? If we can live a full life with a single wife and vice-versa, then why not we can live a full life with a same person without nikkah? If nikkah is a proof document of a relationship, then why not we have any proof for being Muslim? We have just a kalma and hidden relation with our God?
Its a mental bond between a man and a woman which solidifies their relationship to the society and to themselves, instead of living as renegades they live with respect among their peers letting them know that they are committed as married couple. By the way dude you're having atheist thoughts stop hanging out with "goth" kids at school.
PS. The nikkah Nama was ordered by the goverment of Pakistan in 1958 before that nobody had a govermental document saying they were married my grand parents to this day dont have a nikkah nama because you only need witnesses and a molvie and BOOM you got a wife!
well then that's not the point of getting married...for the sake of immigration. darn you pakiz!
I used it as an example, be a little thoughtful and you'll have many more examples in your head.
incidents where children don't know who their fathers/mothers are, aren't always a result of making babies with a partner you're not married to.
Maybe not always but most likely in majority.
plus, you're looking at common law families udner a negative light. not all of them are from homes where the father runs away after sperminating the woman. MANY are probably more civil, well mannered, and "normal" than a family of a legally married couple.
I didn't put them in a negative light. I just emphasized the importance of family; and how marriage, in certain cases, can help to keep the members together.
*A married couple can abandon their kids, too. But their registered marriage may serve their kid to know who their parents were/are. It's a system and system is always made to make your life easier. Ultimately, it's all about how compatible you are. But I still think that marriage is a better option. *
family is not always something that is set by a guideline which states "you can only belong to a family if your mother and father are married".
you can still live together under one roof and call yourself a family even if your parents aren't legally married.
You're not getting the point. it is like an idea...not something that can always be proven by paper.
are you one of those people who don't think an adopted child really beloongs the family of their adopted parents?
can you post proof of that?
you're comparing something completely different to what i'm saying, and marriage. hit and run, as they like to say, which ends up in a pregnant
mother which later leads to the child asking questions in the future about who the father is, doesn't have to do with the couple resenting the idea of getting married. what if the mother was raped? what if they were in the "dating" stage, and were thinking of getting married but the guy bailed? There
are probably many different reasons why that could happen.
in this day and age, you can find out who your birth parents are with the help of technology, and money.
Re: Marriages/weddings/nikkah Just A Legal Contract?
Marriage is a normal n accepted norm in almost all cultures n religions. even those who live together intially ,wish to marry or end up marrying later on. there comes a point where esp the women wants to make everything legal or else they feel like a mistress. also by marriage u get many legal rights upon ur spouse. ppl feel more commited being in a marriage rather than as a gf/bf where they tend to walk out on petty issues. but marriages with kids involved make both partners think hard b4 they decide to separate.
as for immigration purpose they accept live in relations too provided u can proof u hav been living together for atleast an yr. so no u don't hav to marry just to get an immigration.
living in west u might get away with that . it might be hard to mix up with ppl from ur culture or religion.but in an islamic country or in pak u won't wish bringing up ur kids with the B label n with the whore label for urself
family is not always something that is set by a guideline which states "you can only belong to a family if your mother and father are married". you can still live together under one roof and call yourself a family even if your parents aren't legally married. You're not getting the point. it is like an idea...not something that can always be proven by paper.
are you one of those people who don't think an adopted child really beloongs the family of their adopted parents?
can you post proof of that? you're comparing something completely different to what i'm saying, and marriage. hit and run, as they like to say, which ends up in a pregnant mother which later leads to the child asking questions in the future about who the father is, doesn't have to do with the couple resenting the idea of getting married. what if the mother was raped? what if they were in the "dating" stage, and were thinking of getting married but the guy bailed? There are probably many different reasons why that could happen.
in this day and age, you can find out who your birth parents are with the help of technology, and money.
My approach was to emphasize the importance of system. A boyfriend/girlfriend can move in and out anytime without having to face any legal consequences, hence low sense of security but a legally married couple would have legal obligations and the sense of responsibility to take care of that might lead to a beneficial ending. It's like knowing that you'd get a ticket for driving over the limit. There are many legal and sociological benefits of marriage, I don't understand why does it hurt some to sign a paper or two; they probably just don't want to be committed and a relationship without commitments is the weakest. This is just one aspect of marriage that you, yourself, mentioned earlier. However, there are more sociological affects that derive from it.
since you demanded proof, I think it'd be more interesting to let some statistics to be involved.
About 75% of cohabitors say they plan to marry their partners (about 6.2 million people).
55% of different-sex cohabitors get married within 5 years of moving in together. 40% break up within that same time period. About 10% remain in an unmarried relationship five years or longer.
51 and 38 out of 100 marriages get divorced in the U.S and Canada, respectively. Whereas only 10% unmarried couples remain together for 5 or more years which means there's a higher probability of unmarried couples splitting than that of married couples. In other words, married couples tend to stay together longer/more than unmarried couples.
- Approximately 84% of custodial parents are mothers, and
- 16% of custodial parents are fathers
Fatherless kids
- 63% of youth suicides. (Source: US Dept. of Health & Human Services, Bureau of the Census).
- 71% of pregnant teenagers. (Source: US Dept. of Health & Human Services)
- 90% of all homeless and runaway children.
- 85% of all children that exhibit behavioral disorders. (Source: Center for Disease Control).
- 71% of all high school dropouts. (Source: National Principals Association Report on the State of High Schools).
- 85% of all youths sitting in prisons. (Source: Fulton Co. Georgia jail populations, Texas Dept. of Corrections 1992).
^ the last bit.
i don't think you see the difference between being "unmarried" and being in a relationship aka "dating". MANY married couples, before tying the knot, spend some time living together. that doesn't mean they're not thinking of getting married in the future. so, therefore, the last bit doesn't prove anything.
it could just mean, that during the "dating" period, the father decided to bail.
the statistics, however interesting they may be, are not defining what an "unmarried" couple is.
My definition according to this thread.
Unmarried - refusing to get married because they don't think it's that important
whereas the statistics might just be clumping all couples that are "dating" into that category.
The discussion is about married v.s. unmarried. If dating couples have child, the child still belongs to the group of unmarried parents, hence no difference. The last bit proves the affects of divorce/separation on children and since married couples tend to stay together longer/more than unmarried couples, unmarried couples contribute more to this sociological dilemma. As I mentioned in my earlier post while you also agree to marriage being a secured commitment, marriage bounds the couple with legal obligations and responsibilities, therefore they compromise and accompany their children to form a family which minimizes the risk of their children being affected, sociologically. But most importantly, marriage signifies the commitment a couple's willing to make.
"Moving in" has become a fashion these days -- it's an easier way to have an easy life -- but again, in reality, what the couple lacks, in this situation, is the commitment. Is it embarrassing to put a ring on your partner's finger in front of a crowd and profess your commitment? A human mind asks for assurance and security; and I don't think there can be any better assurance than marriage to prove to your partner that your trustworthy, committed, responsible and loyal towards the relationship. And lack of assurance is the major cause of any separation.
Furthermore, it's very selfish and irresponsible for the couple to have fun while living together, have kids and then abandon them for the sake of their own preferences. It's human nature that a few years down the road, while living together, contradictions do stem between a couple, obviously because you tend to learn more about your partner -- including the differences. Now, respecting the differences and compromising is what makes a happy family (keeping the worst scenarios aside). So, the concept of living together before getting married in order to know each other is bogus, yeah, they might save on their rent for a few months though.
Re: Marriages/weddings/nikkah Just A Legal Contract?
Marriage is whatever you take it as. According to Martha Fineman ( American Feminist) it can be a way out of the birth family, religious mandate, a pure contractual relationship and it can a social status. The legal definition of marriage in the UK is the "union between one man and one woman for life with the exclusion of all others". The definition of marriage is not limited and that is what makes it special :)
Re: Marriages/weddings/nikkah Just A Legal Contract?
I dont understand why you wouldnt want a piece of paper documenting your marriage. Marriage protects our family structure...something very important for us and our children.
Plus, what if you're in a bad marriage and your husband turns abusive or something? You want to divorce him but you cant claim meher or even 50% of the property because you have no proof of the marriage. There are legal issues that come into play. Its not only about social acceptance.
The discussion is about married v.s. unmarried. If dating couples have child, the child still belongs to the group of unmarried parents, hence no difference. The last bit proves the affects of divorce/separation on children and since married couples tend to stay together longer/more than unmarried couples, unmarried couples contribute more to this sociological dilemma. As I mentioned in my earlier post while you also agree to marriage being a secured commitment, marriage bounds the couple with legal obligations and responsibilities, therefore they compromise and accompany their children to form a family which minimizes the risk of their children being affected, sociologically. But most importantly, marriage signifies the commitment a couple's willing to make.
"Moving in" has become a fashion these days -- it's an easier way to have an easy life -- but again, in reality, what the couple lacks, in this situation, is the commitment. Is it embarrassing to put a ring on your partner's finger in front of a crowd and profess your commitment? A human mind asks for assurance and security; and I don't think there can be any better assurance than marriage to prove to your partner that your trustworthy, committed, responsible and loyal towards the relationship. And lack of assurance is the major cause of any separation.
Furthermore, it's very selfish and irresponsible for the couple to have fun while living together, have kids and then abandon them for the sake of their own preferences. It's human nature that a few years down the road, while living together, contradictions do stem between a couple, obviously because you tend to learn more about your partner -- including the differences. Now, respecting the differences and compromising is what makes a happy family (keeping the worst scenarios aside). So, the concept of living together before getting married in order to know each other is bogus, yeah, they might save on their rent for a few months though.
i wasn't talking about unmarried couples, i was talking about couples that didn't *want *to get married.
put a ring on, throw a party, go on a honeymoon...do whatever to express your love, no one is stopping you. we're talking about the signed