Marraige of Hazrat Ali and Hazrat Fatima (raa) {split}

Dear Brother,

Two marriages have been arranged by Allah (swt):

A) Adam (as) and Hawa (as)
B) 'Ali (as) and Fatima (as)

Discord never took place between either couple. Their pious lives are an example for the Ummah.

Furthermore, Allah (swt) has decreed that Ali (as) and Fatima (as) are two rivers of chastity who never transgress each other. Therefore strife between them is impossible or else God forbid the report of the Qur’an is false. If an incident is found in any book that indicates that strife between the two contradicts the Qur’an and is therefore false.

Please refer to the following link to read more on this topic. JazakAllah!

Relations between Sayyida Fatima (as) and Maula 'Ali (as)

I thought all marriages are arranged by Allah. Actually, I thought everything that happens is arranged by Allah.

As far as Hazrat Umar and Hazrat Abu Bakr are concerned, they are the greatest leaders that Islam ever had. They both sacrificed everything they had for Islam. Their Rutba is proven by history and many hadith about them. And that is the reason why they both have the honor of being burried right next to The Prophet. You think a liar would be burried next to the greatest man on earth?? Shame on you. Just your statement about the two Sahabas are enough to judge how wrong of a path you people are on. You guys are asking for punishment of Allah because of the lies you and your so called leaders make.

Wrong! Allah (swt) has given us free will.

And as for the marriage of Bibi Fatima (a) and Imam Ali (a), It was ordered by Allah through a wahi as recorded in the books.

[quote]
And that is the reason why they both have the honor of being burried right next to The Prophet. You think a liar would be burried next to the greatest man on earth?? Shame on you.
[/quote]

Do Qur'an and Sunnah suggest that where you are buried is equal to your character. Infact Qur'an says each soul earns it's own reward or punishment, and no soul shall bear the burden of another.... now what part of that equates to "where you're buried can be a reward to you, or a punishment, depending on who is buried near you"?

And what about Uthman? He was buried in Hash Kawkab, a Jewish cemetery. Does that means that it was Allah's will that he degraded his status and people burried him near jews?

moreover both Abu Bakr and Umar were buried wherever Bibi Ayesha felt was the most esteemed place. Allah has nothing to do with this, it was a matter of FREE WILL.

[quote]
Just your statement about the two Sahabas are enough to judge how wrong of a path you people are on. You guys are asking for punishment of Allah because of the lies you and your so called leaders make.
[/quote]

Please be rational and read my post again with open eyes. Specialy the text in red. :)

You speak as if you lived with them. You elevate some people to the level of Greek God and Godess and then say that they are best example for ummah ?

Is this not a contradiction
Kia ye khula tazaad nahi hai ?

My friend, please answer this question logically :

If there was never a discord in their noble lives then how can normal married couple look up to them to solve querrels because it is inevitable for married people to have some arguments in life ?

You are saying that as if the relationship of Hazrat Ali and Hazrat Fatima is mentioned in holy quran. Which totally false !

Please refrain from such loose derivation of holy quran’s ayat :flower1:

There is no mention of any sahabi by name in holy quran. Only Prophets(as) are adressed by name

Re: In defence of Hz Umar (ra) (In response to Pagluu’s Post)

Furthermore, the incident when Prophet (pbuh) got angry with Hazrat Ali is recorded in Shia as well as sunni books

[quote]

It is narrated on the authority of Abu Abdullah Jafar Al-Sadiq: A miserable of the miserables came to Fatima, the daughter of the Messenger of Allah, and said to her: “Did you not know that Ali proposed to marry (Khataba) the daughter of Abu Jahl?”
She said: “Is it true what you say?
He said three times: “What I say is true.”

Jealousy entered into her (heart) to an extent she could not control, for Allah has ordained that women be jealous and that men perform Jihad, and He has made the reward of the patient (woman) similar to that of the Murabit and Muhajir in the way of Allah.

He said: And Fatima’s anguish became severe and she remained thinking about it until night time…she moved to her father’s residence. Ali came to his residence and did not see Fatima and his anguish increased and became great on him, even though he did not know what happened, and he was ashamed to call her from her father’s house so he went to the Masjid and prayed as much as Allah willed, and he collected some of the sand in the Masjid and laid on it.

When the Prophet saw how sad and anguished Fatima was, he poured water over himself and wore his clothes and entered the Masjid. He kept praying, making Rukoo and Sujood, and after every time he completed two Raka he made Du’a that Allah remove what Fatima had of sadness and anguish because he left her turning over and breathing heavily.

When the Prophet saw that she could not sleep and could not rest he said: “O daughter, rise!” So she rose and the Prophet carried Al-Hassan and she carried Al-Hussain and took hold of Umm Kulthoom’s hand until they reached Ali (AS) while he was sleeping.

The Prophet put his foot on Ali, pinched him, and said: “Rise Abu Turab! You have disturbed many a resting person. Call for me Abu Bakr from his house and Umar from his Majlis and Talha.” So Ali went and got them from their houses and they gathered around the Messenger of Allah.

The Messenger of Allah then said: “O Ali! Do you not know that Fatima is a piece of me and I am from her. Whoever disturbs her, disturbs me and whoever disturbs me has disturbed Allah, and whoever disturbs her after my death then as if he has disturbed her in my lifetime and whoever disturbed her in my lifetime then as if he has disturbed her after my death.”

(source: Ibn Babveh Al Qummi’s “Elal Al-Sharae’”, pp.185-186, Al-Najaf Print; also narrated in Majlisi “Bihar” 43/201-202)

{Copied from brother ibn sadique's old post}

[/quote]

As you can see that this noble couple was best example for married muslim couples,
They acted precisely as ordered in holy quran i.e Allah ordered married people to involve elders from both side in their disputes, arguments. So that they would help them solve their problems.

Hazrat Fatima did perfectly, as it is ordered in holy quran. As prophet(pbuh) was her an her husband's elder relative.

[quote]

An-Nisa (Women) (chapter 4) Holy Quran

And if ye fear a breach between them twain (the man and wife),** appoint an arbiter from his folk and an arbiter from her folk. If they desire amendment **Allah will make them of one mind. Lo! Allah is ever Knower, Aware. {35}

[/quote]

^ This my friend, can be termed as following holy quran and being and example for Muslim ummah :) If you start considering them at par with greek gods or dieties (free from human shortcommings) then you will end up worshiping them , not following them as best example for mankind.

Now we know that prophet (pbuh) at some point in time got angry with some of his wives some of the Sahaba(ra) but resolved matters amicably and that was end of it.

Now some people carefully pick these incidents and use them a against some sahaba, and wives to malign their status. Which is very very wrong aproach. And Should be avoided.

Re: In defence of Hz Umar (ra) (In response to Pagluu’s Post)

[mod]

This thread will be closed temporarily for review and clean up after a short while[/mod]

^Quran says about AHlul Bayt:

Allah's wish is but to remove uncleanness far from you, O Folk of the Household, and cleanse you with a thorough cleansing (33:33)

Now if one still insists on Imam Ali making mistakes and errors like "others" then its their choice.

Do you also believe that Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) made mistakes? Imam Ali (as) is described in the Quran as Nafs of Prophet. Do you think believing that Imam Ali (as) could make mistakes is any different?

If anyone argues with you, despite the knowledge you have received, then say, "Let us summon our children and your children, our women and your women, ourselves and yourselves, then let us invoke GOD's curse upon the liars." (3:61)

So i request brothers that before they write a hadith, the least they could do it check whether it is inline with Quran or not.

Dear Brother,

To avoid copy n paste I have posted a link in my previous post. All the points you rose are adressed (including the traditions posted by Ibn Sadique) in that article.

I request you again to get some time and read that article thoroughly.

I agree, there is no sahabi mentioned in Quran by name. But there are several ayahs sent down by Allah (swt) in praise of Ahl-e-Bait. Please reed the following wich I am copying and pasting from the link I gave you before:

Re: In defence of Hz Umar (ra) (In response to Pagluu’s Post)

I have a question :

I believe this following ayat (Blue text) of holy quran also talks about noble Ahle-bayt :slight_smile:

Did you know that ?

Now you know that :chai:

so I think i am a scholar, my name is Moulana Code Red deyobandi , bralvey, naqshbandi Fatehpoori

I can quote 355 mora ayat about noble ahle-bayt :flower1:

Will I then become a revered scholar in the eyes of shia friends ?

The points i raise do not need to be adressed. Because the behaviour of these noble ahlye bayt is completely in-line with holy quran. And they set the best example , As i have shown you the proof :slight_smile:

On the other hand you inisit that they are incapable of guiding muslim married couple incase there is a discord or an arguments between common married people.

^ hmm! neem mullah khatra-e-eiman :snooty:

and as for the guidence of muslim married couple incase there is a discord or an arguments between common married people, the seerah of Bibi Ayshah and Hafsa should be enough.

[edited- Please stay clear of any notion of disrespect toward noble mother of believers]

So you are reatreating from your earlier statement :konfused:

Their noble lives are no longer example for ummah ?

Strange debate it is :hmmm:

I am confirming your statement but you are moving away from it.

Re: In defence of Hz Umar (ra) (In response to Pagluu’s Post)

zero1

Regarding Surah Maida 19-22.

I heard a shia scholar that , this aya means, that Ali ra and Fatima ra was rivers of chastity and they never touched each other, yet they were given Hasan and Hussain.

Is this a firm shiite belief?

No I still hold to the belief that there was no impurity in the life of both noble personalities. As quran garantees it.

The seerah of Prophet (s) is uswa hasna for us and no one can beet that. Using your analogy, Prophet of Allah must have had abused, tortured, beeten and often quarreled with his wives. Since this is also a commen practice of a lot of muslim narried men. Ther must be an example for ummah for things like these in Prophets sunnah. :slight_smile:

Iconoclast, Not sure but I think I know where are you comming from. To be honest I am not very versed in that issue. I recommend you to open a thread in shiachat.com or write a letter to Aqa-e-Sistani through his website. I am sure you will get the answer of your queiries. :slight_smile:

Re: In defence of Hz Umar (ra) (In response to Pagluu’s Post)

^What is your view and that of your clergyman.

A common man is unjust, he fights/cheats/lies/argues/misbehaves. Does it mean that a Prophet must do some of these misdeeds too in order to be a role model? As a Muslim if i see in the Quran Allah (swt) promising that he has kept all the rijis (i.e. impurities) away from these noble personalities and made them perfect. And I think we all strive for perfection (though it is very hard to achieve).

And who says fight/arguements have to be parts of a relationship? Such is the communication between my father and mother that i have never seen them argue in my life masha allah.

Re: In defence of Hz Umar (ra) (In response to Pagluu’s Post)

Ok time for cleanup.

This thread should be divided in 2,3 thread. some side topic need attention

Koi allah ka banda ye kaam kardey :frowning: meri tu abhi light chali jaye gi :no:

This thread is closed for some 24 hours

I will respond later :wave:

Ok now we shall continue in this brand new thread :sweetif:

It is quite amazing to see people are so insecure about their religious personalities. You are defending them as if they might have done something wrong (naauzbillah)

Argument or discord does not automatically mean it is for wrong reasons.

Just for once see with open eyes and rationalize :

Hazrat Ali (ra) wanted to marry second time :

Was that a sin ? NO **
Was that a bad thing ?
NO**
Was that an immoral idea ?** NO**
Was he bound by any pledge to refrain from second marraige ? I dont think so

Hazrat Fatima (ra) wanted to stop him from doing so

Because she loved him soo much :hugz:

Was she wrong in loving her husband so much ? NO
Was she wrong in trying to stop him from diverting his attention ? NO
Was she wrong in asking her father to intervene and resolve the matter ? Absolutely not, she was purely following Allah’s command in holy quran

Wake up people and smell the coffee !!!

The insecurity will lead you no where.

If you think that you would Not like to learn from this noble couple and their love and passion for each other then deny this incident :k: I have no problem :chai:

It amuses me sometimes the way you generalize Ahl-e-Tasheeo. Lets see who need to smell a lot of coffee. :slight_smile:

Wrong!! and your both statements are contradicting each other. Read the following to find out why :slight_smile:

Re: Marraige of Hazrat Ali and Hazrat Fatima (raa) {split}

If we were to believe this then every Muslim father of a girl will stopping their son-in-laws from marrying for the 2nf time because it will be the 'Sunna'.

Yaar zer01 bhai , Like i said, you want to deny that report then simply deny that. I have no problem at alll :slight_smile: Why going into so much trouble of pasting explaination and observations , most of which make not sense at all.

But please keep in mind the report I quote is not from ahle-sunnah source. it is from a shia source and on the authority of none other than **6th noble imam Jafar Sadiq (as) **

Are you saying that he narated a false report ?

Trying to defend your skewed perception of infalibility of Imam Ali and syeda Fatima (ra) you are compromising Infalibility of another noble Imam.

On the other hand I showed you that there was nothing wrong in the incident.
On the contrary it was Allah’s will of teaching Muslims how workout marital disputes. So he chose best of his creatures to set an example ; and follow the command of Allah, as it should be followed :k:

Dont they do it already ?

Every father want’s to see his daughter happy.

Stoping someone from something non-obligatory is perfectly fine , as it is part of reconciliation

It is very much plausible that Hazrat Ali(ra) had most noble intention of marrying a divorced or a widow. Because Sahaba (ra) in those days very frequently used to marry widows , just to support them and their families. Prophet (pbuh) married widows and divorced women. Some of them were quite old.

Similarly, Hazrat Ali(ra) later married widow of Hazrat Abubakar’s(ra) just to support her family. These are the noble way of life of these great companions, we should try to follow as much as possible.