Marraige of Hazrat Ali and Hazrat Fatima (raa) {split}

[zer01]

@Code_Red

Why going into so much trouble of pasting explaination and observations , most of which make not sense at all.

Like I said before, Neem Hakim Khatra e Imaan. May be that twisted theory of yours is blocking the way of rational thinking.

@Code_Red

But please keep in mind the report I quote is not from ahle-sunnah source. it is from a shia source and on the authority of none other than **6th noble imam Jafar Sadiq (as) **

Are you saying that he narated a false report ?

Trying to defend your skewed perception of infalibility of Imam Ali and syeda Fatima (ra) you are compromising Infalibility of another noble Imam.

There is a fundamental principle in Shi’a Islam which we have to take note of here. Whatever narration contradicts the Holy Qur’an or established traditions is FALSE by virtue of that fact alone.

Imam al-Sadiq said:

“Test the various reports by the Book of God; whatever agrees with it take it, whatever disagrees with it reject it”

A similar tradition is been reported from Prophet (s) that if any tradition goes against Quran throw it on the wall.

And using this pronciple MUSLIM scholars have rejected a lot of sayings attributed to Prophet (s). Do these scholars doubt the infallibility of Prophet and think that He (s) said something (God forbid) contradicting to quran.

Bother, I kinda like you. Please dont be one of those ignorants who have been posting such statements on this site out of their arrogance and idiocy.

@Code_Red

Yaar zer01 bhai , Like i said, you want to deny that report then simply deny that. I have no problem at alll … On the other hand I showed you that there was nothing wrong in the incident.

Please show me where I have denied that the report is not from shia source. All I proved was that the tradition has a weak chain.

And now lets analyze the report and the incident you are basing your theory on.

Let me start quoting an ayah from Quran:

O ye who believe! If a wicked person comes to you with any news, ascertain the truth?

Al-Qur’an, Surah Hujuraath, Ayah 6, translated by Yusufali

And now please compare following screen shots to know why I posted the ayah above:

The above picture is taken from h t t p : / / w w w .ahlelbayt.com/articles/sahabah/fadak5

which is a screen shot of the tradition posted by Ibn Sadiq and source of your theory.

Now compare it with the original tradition from h t t p ://al-shia.com/html/ara/books/lib-hadis/behar43/a21.html

You can clearly see that that the person who quoted this incident from shia source did not posted the whole tradition particularly the part which starts just after where he stopped translating. I have greyed it out in the second picture.

I have requested a friend of mine to translate that part in english. following is a summery of the greyed out text:

Ali said: Oh Allah’s messenger, yes. The Prophet said: Then why you did so? Ali said: By the one who sent you as Prophet, what you heard about me is not true and I never thought about that. The Prophet said: You have spoken the truth. You have spoken the truth.

Then Fatima smiled until her smile was visible.

(You can always ask any arabic speaking guppy for an accurate translation of the greyed out text)

As you can see the person that upset Bibi Fatima was NOT Imam Ali , and therefore Ali is not the one being admonished. The hadith itself describes the person who upset Bibi Fatima by LYING to her as “A” miserable of the miserables.

In fact, the narration is a number of pages long. In the rest, it talks about later events with Abu Bakr and `Umar, so it runs pretty counter what that site is trying to say. If anything non-shias should avoid this hadith like the plague because it shows that** Prophet made sure that Abu Bakr and Umar were present before making the statement** "Do you not know that Fatima is a piece of me and I am from her. Whoever disturbs her, disturbs me and whoever disturbs me has disturbed Allah, and whoever disturbs her after my death then as if he has disturbed her in my lifetime and whoever disturbed her in my lifetime then as if he has disturbed her after my death.

However, even there, these nwasib didn’t even have the honesty to include the whole story of that part they were quoting, but have cut it off to make it look like the Prophet is speaking against the Imam Ali (a).

Let me requote the reply no. 8 from the post nummber 18 of this thread:

Reply Eight

If anything this tradition lifts the veils on the true faces of the “Shaykhayn” It is a normal practice that when a dispute arises between two friends brought about by the scheming of others, those responsible for the clash are brought before these friends at the time of reconciliation. It is mentioned at the end of this narration that the holy prophet summoned Umar and Abu Bakr at the time of reconciliation between 'Ali (as) and Hadhrat Fatima (as). 'Ali (as) said to the Holy prophet that whatever had been reported to Zahra (as) was false and he would never contemplate such a thing. The Prophet (s) replied to him that he knew that 'Ali (as) was correct and that Zahra (as) was also correct.

Clearly the fact that this matter was concluded before Abu Bakr and Umar was because they were responsible for concocting the case of Abu Jahl’s daughter to cause strife between Hadhrat 'Ali (as) and Hadhrat Fatima (as). Fatima (as) went to the Holy Prophet (s) pleading that he curtail the activities of these mischief makers. The Holy Prophet summoned them so as to highlight that they would never succeed in disrupting the marital life of his daughter. If Abu Bakr and Umar had not been guilty in this case there would have been no need to call them during the night.

Dear brother Code_Red, Pleas stop relying on the nasibi websites and their followers who have nothing else to do but to spread lies and to create fitna.

[Code_Red]

Re: Marraige of Hazrat Ali and Hazrat Fatima (raa) {split}

Zer01 I like you too and i like everyone who contributes in my forum positively

See you are changing your stance. First you and your quoted text is implying the hadees is weak ( not authentic ) and then you and your quoted text is showing the the the reported incident is not complete and there is more details. Please stick to one position
because each one is contradicting other.

Either if you claim report is false, then dont present explaination and more details of incident. Or if you are giving me explaination and rest of the story then it mean you believe the report is accurate. Chose your stance once and for all

In any of the case, I dont pay heed to any of the propoganda, whether it is shia or sunni or nasbi whatever. They are stink.
Frankly it has nothing to do with the topic of this thread or my stance.

Whether you want to learn or not, this incident has a great lesson for muslim ummah. Specially for married couples that before taking any drastic step, they should resort to the noble elders of their family and seek their advice. Becasue they might find a sollution due to their wisdom and authority.

One of the common reason of failing marraiges in muslims society is ignoring these quranic orders. Either they dont consider elders able enough to give them good advice or they dont want interference in their lives

[zer01]

@Code_Red

See you are changing your stance. First you and your quoted text is implying the hadees is weak ( not authentic ) and then you and your quoted text is showing the the the reported incident is not complete and there is more details. Please stick to one position
because each one is contradicting other.

Either if you claim report is false, then dont present explaination and more details of incident. Or if you are giving me explaination and rest of the story then it mean you believe the report is accurate. Chose your stance once and for all

Aray Bhai marey, my stance is clear from the very beginning of this thread. The tradition is unauthentic in both Shia and sunni sources.

In sunni sources it is taken from Miswar bin Makhramah who as per sunni way to authenticate a report is unrelaiable. And in Shia sources there are two names in the chain. Abul Abbas Ahmed Ibn Muhammed Ibn Yahya and Umro Ibn Abi Al-miqdam. These both men according to shia ulema of rijal are unreliable.

Therefore one should be very careful to derive any conclusion out of such a fabricated traditions.

And as for the explanation of the report, I just wanted to expose the true faces and dishonesty of nwasib behind that propaganda website.

There is a lesson for the guppies who feel themselves very proud quoting every now and then from that site. But then, the level of arrogance and ignorance they show in their posts, I doubt they will learn anything out of it.

May Allah (swt) guide them.

[aqeel123]

I thought all marriages are arranged by Allah. Actually, I thought everything that happens is arranged by Allah.

You think a liar would be burried next to the greatest man on earth?? Shame on you. Just your statement about the two Sahabas are enough to judge how wrong of a path you people are on.

Is that Logic ??? A person who was burried next to Prophet s.a.w cant be a lair ?

If a person was to be burried closer to Prophet depending on their character being Closer to Prophet s.a.w then Fatima a.s had the first right to be burried next to Prophet. s.a.w how ever no one can identify the Grave of this Great lady.

so rather then asuming they r burried next to Prophet s.a.w b/c of their charcter ... think of who was in rule when these caliphs died. it was the next caliphs call where they will be burried which was independent of how nobel they were.