I thought someone already made a thread on that.
A few thoughts, though my first instinct was to stay away from this topic :~)
[list=1]
[li]If a wife has serious medical problems, which severely constraint her ability to engage in sexual relations with her husband (with no possible medical solution available) are these valid grounds for divorce?[/li]
[li]What about the reverse? When a husband is tired, uninterested or unwell, but the wife wants to engage in sexual relations. Is that also marital rape?[/li]
[li]Reading some of the answers from females in this forum (not only this thread) it seems as some of them (inexperienced maybe) feel that sexual relations are only for the gratification of males and hence women submit to it only as a duty and not necessarily to enjoy any bit. In this case, even if the wife submits to such advances from her spouse, derives no pleasures from such activities, and this state of affairs continues for an extended period, does that constitute rape = unwilling sexual relations?[/li][/list=a]
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[This message has been edited by *Zaalim (edited July 09, 2002).]
[quote]
Originally posted by Faisal:
If a wife has serious medical problems, which severely constraint her ability to engage in sexual relations with her husband (with no possible medical solution available) are these valid grounds for divorce?
It depends on couples, usually what will happen either they are divorced or he just tags another wife along.
What about the reverse? When a husband is tired, uninterested or unwell, but the wife wants to engage in sexual relations. Is that also marital rape?
I doubt it, cuz if you've seen "Indecent Proposal", its the guy who really succumbs to her wishes. I think this part is debateable in the sense that the male organ is involuntary so i guess just a little friction would bring him to that stage where she can stradle him. Ofcourse, if he's tired then I suppose she'll have a heck of a time trying to bring him to that stage. I personally don't think its marital rape.
[li]Reading some of the answers from females in this forum (not only this thread) it seems as some of them (inexperienced maybe) feel that sexual relations are only for the gratification of males and hence women submit to it only as a duty and not necessarily to enjoy any bit. In this case, even if the wife submits to such advances from her spouse, derives no pleasures from such activities, and this state of affairs continues for an extended period, does that constitute rape = unwilling sexual relations?[/li][/list]This is how I've seen it in western culture and unspoken in others. Boys are encouraged that its good to masterbate while females are told its not lady like to gratify themselves. As a result men know what they want while the majority of females are starting to discover themselves with their first sexual encounters whether it be alone or with a guy. And usually with a guy the first time is wham bam thank you ma'am because she doesn't know how to be pleasured and what she wants him to do to reach climax. So the word spreads from one woman to another with similar experiences and carries on till the consensus between most women is that its a task and those who do enjoy it stay quiet. This is how I percieve these women come to the notion that having intercourse is just a task rather than pleasure. So the answer to your question in my opinion it doesn't constitute to unwilling sexual relations since she put out for him even though she is reluctant she still did put out.
[/quote]
Jitna Diya Sarkar Nay Mujko, Itni Meri Auqat Nahi, Yeh Saab Tumhara Karam Hai Aqa, Mujh Mein Aisi Koi Baat Nahin.
It is difficult to say what is impossible, for the dream of yesterday is the hope of today and the reality of tomorrow.
Oh I forgot to mention that His sexual appetite is twice or three times more than Hers. So that may constitute to unwilling sexual relations.
Jitna Diya Sarkar Nay Mujko, Itni Meri Auqat Nahi, Yeh Saab Tumhara Karam Hai Aqa, Mujh Mein Aisi Koi Baat Nahin.
It is difficult to say what is impossible, for the dream of yesterday is the hope of today and the reality of tomorrow.
[quote]
Originally posted by Xara:
**in islam your not allowed to harm your wife so if rape = harm then its certainly not allowed
**
[/quote]
ooh! hello!
In Islam a wife is not supposed to refuse when her husband approaches her. If she does, and the husband sleeps in anger, all night the angles send "la'nat" on the woman.
Thats what pisses me off! If u dont know much about Islam, keep your hole shut! their are non-muslims who browse these forums too, and they might get the wrong impression... as if they dont all ready have misconceptions about our religion.
take care next time
[quote]
Originally posted by arghoon:
** ooh! hello!
In Islam a wife is not supposed to refuse when her husband approaches her. If she does, and the husband sleeps in anger, all night the angles send "la'nat" on the woman.
**
[/quote]
Allow me to clarify even further what buddy here left pertinent details out. In Islam a wife is not supposed to refuse when her husband approaches her. Conditions that apply are she is not in anyway sick, displeased or discomforted by him. You can't simply expect a wife to let him do his deed when she's not comfortable.
There is a fine line between refusing for a reason and refusing because she doesn't want to. A valid reason justifies it all.
As far as your "la'nat" statement goes and you getting pissed off, back up your statement before putting others down.
And till next time come forth with a better style of conduct than what you just presented yourself as, after all other people are reading this thread too as you mentioned.
Jitna Diya Sarkar Nay Mujko, Itni Meri Auqat Nahi, Yeh Saab Tumhara Karam Hai Aqa, Mujh Mein Aisi Koi Baat Nahin.
It is difficult to say what is impossible, for the dream of yesterday is the hope of today and the reality of tomorrow.
COCo: What about if a wife is feeling the love but the husband refuses? Are their steo by step guidelines in the Quran to help satisfy the poor wifey and COME to an agreement amicably.
[quote]
Originally posted by Chaltahai:
COCo: What about if a wife is feeling the love but the husband refuses? Are their steo by step guidelines in the Quran to help satisfy the poor wifey and COME to an agreement amicably.
[/quote]
First of all, my intentions were to steer clear of religion as much as possible but people just insist on bringing in religion.
Secondly, your sarcastic remark regarding the Quran is highly unorthodox and if its not sarcastic then I should cover the shadow of doubt by telling you, No there aren't any step by step guidelines that I know of, this is my own morale that I've learnt in life. If she is "feeling the love" and he isn't then you know what, thats what compromise is all about. If he's not in the mood, there is always a next time. Relationship is all about Compromise isn't it? Life doesn't neccessarily revolve around copulating.
Our discussion here is based on forcing oneself on another, its not about pleasure seeking, satisfaction. Its about bringing each other to a level of comfort where both agree.
Jitna Diya Sarkar Nay Mujko, Itni Meri Auqat Nahi, Yeh Saab Tumhara Karam Hai Aqa, Mujh Mein Aisi Koi Baat Nahin.
It is difficult to say what is impossible, for the dream of yesterday is the hope of today and the reality of tomorrow.
Actually arghoon - any non-muslim would get scared by your version of what you think seems to be Islamic.
I agree with Coconut. It is not MANDATORY for a woman to please her husband all the time. There is a hadith I think that says something like "lucky is the man who's wife succumbs whenever he lays an eye on her" - meaning if he looks at her longingly, she'll accept and perform intercourse with him.
Furthermore, one scholar once explained to me that whatever is addressed to a man in the Quran or hadith, generally applies to a woman also. Just for shortness sake is it written in terms of "MAN".
So keeping that in mind, whenever a woman lays an eye on her husband, he must go for it also. But that's never too hard for a man to do, given his naturally intense sex drive.
Furthermore, I suggest you read the surah's in which it says if you harm your wife in anyway, you will be severly punished.
Remember, sex is physical. And for many women, more than what the statistics show actually, sex is painful. But most women, especially desis, dont tell their husbands they are in pain, and often even when the husband sees his wife is in pain - he doesn't stop.
So, if you are hurting your wife, or if you're forcing her into it when she's got a legitimate reason not to - like if she's fasting, or in menstruation, or if it physically hurts her, or if there is something on her mind and she wants to talk to you rather than have intercourse with you -- then you're delivering pain to your wife, and that is severly wrong Islamically.
I hope that cleared up some misconceptions you had about women satisfying their husbands.
I have a friend whose wife has the habit of going to sleep during the act. I do not know whether she does it intentionally or not but it puts of my friend and he sleeps unsatisfied. This normally happens when she is forced into sex.
I also know a friend whose wife had a vaginal infection and he still forced her into satisfying him.
And one of my friends told me that about the advice his elder brother gave him on the night of his wedding. " Oye shor kar see per uss noo chaddin naan warna saari umer thalley laga rain ga". Fortunately he followed my advice to take his time as she is his wife and not on a meter.