Shawn @ Obedience doesn't mean u disrespect urself or slavery , it means u agree to person whom u love and making him / her happy. We love our parents thats y we obey them and similar in husband wife relation. If a person want his / her freedom then y living wd other?? what is the purpose? Why ALLAH has created these relations?? Definitely, all this relations have a purpose in this world, so we should consider ALLAH laws first.
If your wife is smarter than you and can make better decisions than you, why should she be obliged to obey/agree with you. Just because you have different anatomy..In my university many girls did way better than guys
The hadith that pashtun posted shouldnt be taken merely as a support for men going towards marital rape and all. In my.good faith, I would take those as a warning for those manipulating wives who have their own blackmailing tactics and who actually show the way to adultry to.their.husbands.
As for marital rape and its stance in islam, i dont believe it exists. If uu dont want to be in a marriage, be out of it. Many many men suffer from mental agony due to their wives unjustifiable behaviour which is no less than a mental.rape.itself and still they remain in the.marriage for.one or another reason.
Islam.or any teaching for.that matter, if you take up instances in.portions, you.are actually not trying.to make use of it, just abusing.it.
^ i agree that the hadith shouldn't be a platform for men to force themselves on their wives. however, personally, i think it's a little far-fetched to compare mental agony to physical/marital rape bearing in mind that rape itself leads to serious mental health consequences. i'm not trying to justify the behaviour of such wives, but it doesn't equate to raping a wife either and still remaining within that marriage (vice versa)
western laws are strict on marital rape, but this is very recent.. i think 50-60 years ago, marital rape was not even identified as a crime. i recall a UN report stating over 100 countries still do not outlaw marital rape. as for eastern culture thinking it's acceptable, there could be many reasons for that.. one of which is (muslim) men using hadiths (such as the ones posted above) to their own advantage.
Most scholars point to the hadith and say although it says the husband goes to bed angry - he does nothing afterwards. If marital rape were allowed, there would be some hadith in favor for the act...or even prescribing the act. There are none. As Muslim one of the foremost things we are taught is kindness to others...kindness to animals even...so u can't really fathom it being allowed in Islam. And there has been a case in court where a man was charged with marital rape. If it's not written in law it does not mean that a qadi or judge or whatever can't hand down a punishment for it. The reason for there not being a written prescribed punishment for marital rape i think is that once u sign the nikkah contract your acceptance is implicit. Marital 'rape' therefore is sometimes seen as the wrong term for it...
When are people going to realize that rape is not just about the sex itself ..it's about aggression and control. The aggressor gets a "high" over the ability to dominate and control.
For those who are saying marital rape doesn't exist and it's just women making excuses, and shouldn't get married then, seriously?!?
I volunteer extensively with a Muslim women's non profit organization that has successfully established a domestic violence shelter and let me assure you that there are many, many men in this world and in our ummah who think nothing of raping their wives. I've heard of cases where the wife was forced upon just a day after childbirth....cases where a wife was forced upon in front her crying children...cases where groceries in the house were withheld unless the wife succumbed to her husbands perverse expectations.
Yes, these are extreme examples, but rape is rape, regardless if their is a nikkah binding the two people or not. Like S_Punk pointed out, Islam teaches men (and women) to curb their anger and not act on impulse.
^ Thats how I see it.
I'll never understand why certain writings in our book were made so difficult to understand. You would think people should be able to use their common sense but that sense is so different from person to person.
S&S @ exactly..human beings are instinctively born with the ability to distinguish between right and wrong and wise people (notice not wise men) should continually strive to rewrite and improve the social contract, many things in scripture are not valid anymore such as slavery, rape of women captured in war slaughter of war captives marriage to prepubescent girls etc., The world became a much nicer place for minorities, women, children and animals once a more secular approach was applied to law making. I remember reading in Wall Street Journal about a white Russian Christian couple being jailed for 20 years for beating their kids, they used the defence that their Bible allowed them to-do it, but the courts did not accept the defence.
If you water a plant, when it needs, its not obeying the plant.
Or if you give food to animal or to a needy person you don’t obey them.
As a matter of fact in those cases plant/animal or needy person beg, and you are the person of authority.
In the hadees you quoted, its very clear wife has the authority in such situation, so she is being addressed.
Huby is just being a plant
plant don’t get water it will go yellow.
a quick insight as how you can’t hide behind religion in the west while perpetrating domestic violence, a must read article, stakes are high you lose everything.
Also you should not take problems of one society and create buzz in different community.
I wonder if any moron ever did a research on husbands forcing them selves
in society where people drink Vs society where people don't drink.
OR they just do usual stuff like.
"
drunkards society: .... reported 90 cases while hubby came home drunk.
Non drunkards society: .... hmmmmmm.... oh oh... there books says thiss.... which could mean this...
If you water a plant, when it needs, its not obeying the plant.
Or if you give food to animal or to a needy person you don't obey them.
As a matter of fact in those cases plant/animal or needy person beg, and you are the person of authority.
In the hadees you quoted, its very clear wife has the authority in such situation, so she is being addressed.
Huby is just being a plant :(
plant don't get water it will go yellow.
Curious though you guys in Pakistan know that women have physiological needs also and when this much older husband who really does not enjoy exercise or eat healthy and is unable to meet the spouses needs would he face the wrath of Angels also,
Curious though if you know...
in pakistan divorce rate is not like west.
in pakistan cheateing is not like west.
in pakistan kids grow with the parents and with father(as well)
I don't know if you are able to appreciate it or not, I can ask you do little mental exercise and suggest how can you bring same family structure in west.
If answer is "I dont have clue" then say "I dont have a cule"
dont say "blah blah this" "blah blah that"
Also you should not take problems of one society and create buzz in different community.
I wonder if any moron ever did a research on husbands forcing them selves
in society where people drink Vs society where people don't drink.
OR they just do usual stuff like.
"
drunkards society: .... reported 90 cases while hubby came home drunk.
Non drunkards society: .... hmmmmmm.... oh oh... there books says thiss.... which could mean this...
so both are even. "
The problem with the non drunkards society is that they are lined miles deep in front of our embassies begging for a chance to live in our society, they come here claiming refugee status invoking charter of rights and all and then start quoting scripture while breaking our laws by raping violating and abusing their spouses, our society has made laws to protect victims of family violence....If a drunkard comes home and violates his partner he will end up behind bars in minutes....fact is that over 70 percent Pakistani women surveyed reported abuse....
The problem with the non drunkards society is that they are lined miles deep in front of our embassies begging for a chance to live in our society, they come here claiming refugee status invoking charter of rights and all and then start quoting scripture while breaking our laws by raping violating and abusing their spouses, our society has made laws to protect victims of family violence....If a drunkard comes home and violates his partner he will end up behind bars in minutes....fact is that over 70 percent Pakistani women surveyed reported abuse....
Dont believe this. Not for pakistanis. and not among non drunkard husbands. There could not be 70% abuse. Impossible.
Among drunkard husbands, if they says emotional/physical abuse is any less then 90%, I still wont believe it.
....fact is that over 70 percent Pakistani women surveyed reported abuse....
Can you please post a link for this survey? I'd love to read the details on how many women were surveyed, in what location, by whom, what type of questions asked etc.
Dont believe this. Not for pakistanis. and not among non drunkard husbands. There could not be 70% abuse. Impossible.
Consider the way men salivate over women in bazaars in Pakistan, bumping into them when passing. Look at the fact that literacy rate is really low. Talk to your maidservant (maasi) who probably has her salary spent by her husband on sasti alcohol or drugs or gambling. Please look at the society's behavior towards women in general and then say impossible. I assure you its not impossible.
