Marital Rape......

Lifestyle Relationships
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Re: Marital Rape......

^ This is typical can't face reality let us do personal attacks, conjure up conspiracy theories...any fact I stated argue that please. Releasing Raymond Davis was the single biggest shame less act of a nation, argue if it wasn't don't attack me, abusive husbands hardly ever get arrested in Pakistan, argue that. There is no law against marital rape in Pakistan argue that..

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So if everyone is disgusted about it why not make laws against it.

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I colored red your points.

This means I read your post very carefully.

First of all I live and breathe in the world which is most likely more realistic than yours reading your posts(s).

Secondly, you are the one who has completely messed up idea of a marital relationship when you say marital rape does exist....which is based upon idiots who invent these kind of terms just to see marriages keep falling apart and children growing up without .....mostly a father and the **single or divorced women keep getting SKREWED upon multiple times.............

by multiple other men **for their pleasure and satisfaction.....hoping that one of those men somehow will so called RESPECT her enough to marry.

You have learned a very ludicrous idea of marriage which means that married people still have control on their bodies enough to say NO to the spouse.

No they do not.

You married to a person, regardless you are a man or a woman, when approached by your spouse for sexual pleasure, do not deny. Try everything to make her/him happy. *Period.
*
Much to your surprise and laughable idea: Marriage does not mean a person is free to have a a sapce of his/her own.

Marriage means BOTH can enter each others freedom zone anytime.

Get it? if not then read again:

*There is no such thing as respecting each other to hold on the the very basic need as a sexual desire in marriage.
*

Women from Pakistan living in a country named as Ca-Na-Da (three consonents with one vowel), cannot be taken as example of so called freedom and stupid law which makes peple get divorced upon a silly claim.

Please read my earlier posts to get the continuity for this thought.

**
There is no such thing as personal space, "freedom" to DENY SEXUAL GRATIFICATION to spouse.**

No wonder cheating by men is getting so common.

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^^^ My views on this issue are the same as the International Human Rights Commission..human rights trump national and religious laws, Serbia was attacked for human rights violations.

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The level of your stupidty is indicative of brain damage. I would feel sorry for you but it seems like you thoroughly deserve it.

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[quote="Rhuarc, post:82, topic:306136"]

The level of your stupidty is indicative of brain damage. I would feel sorry for you but it seems like you thoroughly deserve it./QUOT

Okay Einstein next foreign aid shipment is on its way.

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Re: Marital Rape…

Chayan a website for abused Pkstani women

According to The United States Department of Justice, domestic violence is:

“a pattern of abusive behaviour in any relationship that is used by one partner to gain or maintain power and control over another intimate partner.”
Domestic violence can happen to anyone regardless of age and sex. It is not limited to physical abuse only; it can also be verbal, emotional, psychological, financial and sexual.
According to the Power and Control Wheel theory, domestic violence involves a range of behaviors which can include physical and sexual violence; using coercion , threats; intimidation; emotional abuse, isolation; minimizing, denying and blaming; using children; male privilege; and economic abuse. These forms of abuse do not occur in isolation from each other, but rather occur simultaneously.
Power and Control Wheel Theory

Laws for domestic violence vary by country. While domestic violence is a crime in many countries, in Pakistan it is not seen as a crime. The problem is often overlooked, excused, or denied in Pakistani culture because it is socially acceptable in Pakistani society. But whether or not there are laws to protect people from domestic violence, it is still an offense and as such it should be condemned.
Identifying abuse is the first step to getting help for yourself or someone you know. Even if at times it seems like no one can help you, there is some help available. Use this website to learn more about the options available.
Click here if you think someone else is suffering with domestic violence.
Am I In An Abusive Relationship?

Marriage is a happy union of love and should not be used to intimidate, threaten and to inflict physical or psychological harm to you. The best way to tell if you are in an abusive relationship is to ask yourself if you feel scared of your husband or his family.
Are you constantly thinking about what to say, how to say it and how to avoid angering your husband or your in-laws or your own family?
Abuse can often be instigated by the abuser (husband/parent/in-laws) trying to control some aspect of your life such as money, who you visit, when you go out, and then escalate to threats, verbal, emotional, physical and sexual abuse.
An abusive relationship and situation can destroy your self-esteem and sense of worth. This can lead to depression, anxiety and make you feel helpless and isolated. See the points below to see if you are in an abusive relationship. Please note that all points need not apply to your situation for it to be abusive. e.g. A relationship where your partners checks your mobile phone and stops you from meeting you friends is an abusive relationship even if he never raises a hand to you.
Do you…?

  • feel afraid of your husband much of the time?
  • avoid doing or talking about certain topics because you are afraid of making your husband angry?
  • feel that you can’t do anything right and meet the standards your husband or in-laws have set?
  • believe that you deserve to be hurt or mistreated and abused?
  • think that you’re the one who must be at fault all the time?
  • feel helpless or emotionally numb?
  • cry most days and nights?

Does your husband/in-laws…?

  • humiliate you by calling you names or scream at you?
  • criticize you constantly and make you feel down?
  • treat you so badly that you feel ashamed to talk about it to your family or friends?
  • ignore, belittle you for having opinions and put down your accomplishments (studies, work etc)?
  • blame you for making him act abusive towards you? e.g. ‘You provoked me!’
  • treat you as his property or sex object, rather than as an individual?
  • act excessively jealous and possessive even if you are talking to a male cousin, friend?
  • control where you go and what you do?
  • tell you to ask permission before leaving the house?
  • ask your mother-in-law to tell him if you call someone or try to leave the house?
  • keep you from seeing your friends or family?
  • force you to close down you Facebook account or delete friends from it?
  • take over your phone and read your messages?
  • limit your access to money, phone, or car?
  • demand to know all your passwords for all email accounts?
  • ask you to close your bank account?
  • force you to leave your job?
  • force you to discontinue your education?
  • curse you?
  • force you to have sex instead of asking you whether you want to have sex?
  • make frequent, harassing phone calls to you?
  • threaten that he will commit suicide if you leave? Your in-laws may be hinting you the same thing?
  • threaten you to do as he says or he will take your children away or harm them?
  • threaten you to do as he says or he will harm your family and friends?
  • hurt you, or say he will hurt or kill you? Slaps you? Kicks you? Pulls your hair? Pushes you?
  • have an unpredictable temper that scares you?

Why Is This Happening to Me?No one deserves to live through this pain. God, destiny or culture do not put you into an abusive relationship; families and husbands do. There is no reason why domestic violence exists in our society. It can be said that it’s a combination of factors such as attitudes towards gender and gender roles in society, the personality of the abuser, circumstances of the woman and the response of community to domestic violence. We do know, however, that domestic violence happens because of the desire of the abuser (whether it is your parents, husband, sibling or in-laws) to exert control and power over you.
Despite popular belief, abusers are not out of control. If they were truly incapable of controlling themselves or their ‘anger’, most abusers would not choose to hit women in places where other people cannot see them. They also wouldn’t try to maintain a good and normal relationship with your family so your family doesn’t believe you when you tell them how he treats you.
To get out of this situation, it is important to realise that your marriage is abusive and that there are ways to deal with this. While leaving the house/separating/filing for divorce is one way to get out of an abusive relationship, it is not the only one. There are many other ways; marriage and family counselling, getting psychological help for your abuser because he sure does need it, getting your and his family to talk to him about his behaviour, etc. If nothing else works, then stepping out of the relationship is the way to go.
Forms of AbuseEmotional & Verbal Abuse: The Scars of Emotional Abuse are Very Real, and they Run Deep.
Sexual Abuse: Your Husband Does Not Have the Right to Rape You.
Physical Abuse: It is Not Your Fault

Verbal abuse involves yelling, name-calling, blaming, and shaming. Emotional abuse involves isolation, intimidation, threats, religious blackmail, making you feel guilty and controlling behaviour.

Sexual abuse involves: unwanted kissing, touching, rough or violent sexual activity, rape or attempted rape, using sexual insults, pinching nipples, refusing to use condoms or restricting access to birth control.

Physical abuse involves: punching; slapping; hitting; biting; pinching; kicking; pulling hair out; pushing; shoving; burning and strangling.

It is comforting to think that only the obviously battered and assaulted women are the ones who experience domestic abuse. The reality is far from it: not all domestically violent relationships involve physical assault. However, almost all of them do have elements of emotional and verbal abuse which is no less abuse then physical assault. Abusers often get away with emotional and verbal abuse because it is not visible and even when it is, you or other people may attribute it to anger, bad mood, stress or just plain regret.
Abusers emotionally and verbally abuse you to destroy your self-worth and confidence, making you feel like you have to depend on him for everything. You may feel like there is no way out and that you could do nothing without him. This is not the case. Use this website to inform yourself and if possible, find a way out.

It is not your duty as a wife to have sex with your husband or allow your husband to have sex with you when you don’t want to. Any situation that makes you uncomfortable or sexually degraded is a form of sexual abuse. You have every right to say no at any point of the intercourse and in a healthy relationship, your partner would stop because they would not want to make you feel uncomfortable. Research has shown that women who experience physical and sexual violence by their husbands are at a higher risk of being seriously injured or even

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Your hatred for Pakistanis and Muslims is getting very clear day by day. Happy posting. :)

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Go the Chayan website take you friends with you and help these girls, If your eyes don't tear up you are a heartless rat, yes I hate women abuser,
a post from the website. This is not about me.

I had a love marriage, and within one month my husband had beaten me black and blue. After a year i finally got the courage to escape, and my parents sent me right back to him! It took seven years, the birth of my child, and going down to 92 lbs to convince my family to be supportive of leaving. In process of getting khula, petrified of my future and what will happen to my toddler when he turns 8 and I lose custody, or when i meet someone again and remarry. Damn my ex husband to hell and damn the misogynistic society that treats its women like dirt.

stories to follow

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**Another story from Chayan website

What Should I Do?**

My husband has assaulted me two days ago. It was not the first time he did so. But this time I have realised it will never stop.
I have a son with him who is an infant. He beat me up even when I was pregnant of my child. I forgave him because I thought he was really sorry and I didn't dare take any other step. He would make me feel sorry for him, by convincing me that he had a difficult childhood.
This time he gave me bruises all over my body and a broken rib. He is a tall, strong guy who works on muscle training a lot. I am a skinny tall girl. I am the only caretaker for my son as he didn't let me keep any help. He used to say he hated women who can't take care of their children. Every other women in our friend and family circle has help. He is a control freak. He has his eyes on every move of mine. He suffocates me a lot. I have to wear what he wants me to wear, I have to look where he wants me to look, I have to obey all of his unfair demands... I virtually don't live I'm just existing, I don't recognise myself...I think I resemble mother Theresa now but even like this he managed to attempt murder.
That night he said he would kill me. He has guards standing outside. I screamed for help, screamed for someone to save me, but no one came. Ah the callousness! We live in a house that consist of seperate portions. No one showed the slightest bit of humanity.
Now I want to know if there is any help out there. I want to know if there is any way I can make him stay away from me. I'm at my mothers house. My father has passed away and I have younger brothers. I have cousins at good posts but I don't want to ask any one for help. Please help
*modified to protect the identity of the woman

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Re: Marital Rape…

You made me all teared up.

Getting the balti (bucket) from corner store …please wait for me to come back so I can catch all of your precious tears.

Waiting for more sad stories of Pakistani and Muslim abusive husbands.

You are the savior and without you and the human right agencies…, these women face the lives full of sorrow. :frowning:

Damn those Muslims and Pakistanis: They should just burn in hell as you describe them. :mad:

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Re: Marital Rape......

^^^ Chyan website*It is helpful to remember that: *

  1. There is no cultural, social, economic or religious reason which can justify domestic crime. Thus, it is unacceptable in any situation.
  2. Domestic violence is very common in Pakistan. 70-90% of Pakistani women are subjected to domestic violence (Human Rights Watch 2009).
  3. Domestic violence is very dangerous to the physical and the psychological well being of the victim.
  4. The abuser is solely responsible for his abusive behavior. The woman is not to blame; violence is a choice he makes.

*What might an abused woman be feeling and experiencing? *

  1. An abused woman is often overwhelmed by fear, which can govern her every move - a fear of: further violence, the unknown, her safety and the safety of her children -- do not underestimate the effects of the fear.
  2. In a conservative society like mainstream Pakistani society, it is considered disgraceful for the family if there are any issues between a couple, or between a woman and her in-laws. Many times she is blamed for failing to do her duty, and suffering the punishment for that “negligence”. Thus, many abused women feel helpless because they do not want to invite that disgrace to their families.
  3. She may experience a conflict of emotions. She may love her partner, but hate the violence. She may live in hope that his good side will reappear.
  4. She may be dependent upon her partner; emotionally and financially. In Pakistani society, usually women have two sources of support: parents and husband. If her husband is abusive and her family is not responsive, then the woman might feel truly helpless.
  5. She may experience feelings of shame, guilt and embarrassment.
  6. She may feel resigned and hopeless and find it hard to make decisions about her future.

So what can you do to support her

  1. Talk to her and help her open up. You may have to try several times before she would confide in you. Listening is crucial to the process. Many times, the ability to talk to someone about an issue helps the victim. She can hear herself aloud, and think more about the issue. Moreover, knowing that someone cares about one, can also be very helpful for the victim.
  2. Try to be direct and start by saying something like, “I’m worried about you because …” or “I’m concerned about your safety…”
  3. Do not judge her.
  4. Listen to her and believe what she tells you – too often people do not believe a woman when she first discloses abuse. Even if you disagree with her, understanding her situation is of foremost importance not expressing yourself.
  5. Reassure her that the abuse is not her fault and that you are there for her.
  6. Don’t tell her to leave or criticize her for staying. Although you may want her to leave, she has to make that decision in her own time. It is important to remember that research shows an abused woman is at most risk at the point of separation and immediately after leaving an abusive partner. Moreover, every person is different, do not assume a commanding posture. It is important to help her, but the most important thing is to listen to her.
  7. Leaving takes a great deal of strength and courage. An abused woman often faces huge obstacles such as nowhere to go, no money and no one to turn to for support
  8. Focus on supporting her and building her self-confidence.
  9. Acknowledge her strengths and frequently remind her that she is coping well with a challenging and stressful situation.
  10. An abused woman is often very isolated and has no meaningful support – help her to develop or to keep up her outside contacts. This can help to boost her self-esteem.
  11. If she has not spoken to anyone else, encourage her to seek the help of a local domestic violence agency that understands what she is going through and offers specialist support and advice. If the victim has other friends, who can help her out but she is unwilling to take help from them, then encourage her to open up to them. As the specialist agencies are scarce in Pakistan, the society is supposed to support its members. Many times, women do not even confide in their parents because they fear their reaction, and they fear the breakup of their household.
  12. Be patient. It can take time for a woman to recognize she is being abused and even longer to be able to take safe and permanent decisions about what to do. Recognizing the problem is an important first step.

*Helping a woman and her children to keep safe. *

  1. A woman’s safety and the safety of her children is paramount.
  2. Always remember that she understands her own situation the best. She knows her husband, his family and the possible outcomes to her actions. Thus, never disregard the perspective of the victim.
  3. Help her to stay safe: [LIST=1]
  4. Agree a code word, sentence or action that is only known to you both so she can signal when she is in danger and cannot access help herself. It should be something very common which cannot be interpreted by people around her.
  5. Don’t make plans for her yourself, but encourage her to think about her safety more closely and focus on her own needs rather than his.
  6. Find out information about local services for her; offer to keep a spare set of keys or important documents such as passports, benefit books, in a safe place for her so that she can access them quickly in an emergency.

[/LIST]

  1. Encourage her to think of ways she can increase the safety of her children. Domestic violence and child abuse is also linked. The husband might start by abusing either the children or the woman but once he considers it acceptable to beat his family members, he would not have any limits in his mind. Thus, it is important to encourage her to think about actions that would ensure the safety of herself and her children.

*How to give hope to the victims, and encourage action without alienating them? *

  1. You must never make the victim feel she is at fault for not taking action. A victim of domestic violence would already be feeling extremely under-confident, violated and guilty. Thus, she does not need the extra guilt of not acting. Such actions might even force her to hide further domestic violence from you.
  2. Help the victim discover her strengths, and explore ways for her to nourish those strengths. It is important to tell the victim how brave she is for facing such situation with such courage.
  3. Help her to think aloud. Many times thinking aloud would help the victim discover new possibilities.
  4. Domestic violence is a complicated and difficult issue. You must be a friend to the victim as well. This means that domestic violence should not be the only thing you talk to her about. Try to do activities that make her forget her situation and smile for a while. Depression can be a very serious risk for the victim. Thus, helping the victim does not mean reminding her all the time of her agonies. Instead, reminding the victim of her strengths and helping her have a good time are also important.

Who are you worried about?Do you know someone who may be experiencing domestic violence? Fill in this form to help us get better.

  • Who Are You Worried About? Fill the form once per person.*FriendSisterCousinDaughterMotherAuntEx-partner (ex-fiance, girlfriend, wife)
    [LIST]

  • Friend

  • Sister

  • Cousin

  • Daughter

  • Mother

  • Aunt

  • Ex-partner (ex-fiance, girlfriend, wife)

[/LIST]

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Re: Marital Rape…

The poor women are because of people like you, I know enough Islam to know that by condoning it you are participating in it, happy fires for you

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Yes, it is sooooo obvious you know Islam enough so anyone condoning it is just making poor women live miserably.

Islam is against women and Muslims following it are the ones who promote this practice against poor women. Thanks to you for bringing light in to the world. So admirable thoughts. :)

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Re: Marital Rape......

In a hadith, the Prophet SAWS said to the men that let none of you fall upon your wife like an animal, that there be affection (kisses/words) first.

We hear mostly of the hadith of angels cursing the wife for refusing sex, but I guess the above hadith is not as well-known. Now Rasool SAWS didn't use the words "force" or "rape" ....but if a guy's conscience is working, he'll know which types of behaviors reduce one to an animal. If both husband and wife deny each other sex frequently without valid reason, it's damaging to self-esteem which in turn strains the marriage and can lead to other sins. However the above hadith has not permitted force or pressure. We're getting so caught up in words like "rape" and debating whether it exists or not in a marriage. But the above hadith is sufficient guidance for men....the word "animal" used by Rasool SAWS is sufficient.

So, for sanity's sake....let's get rid of the term "marital rape" for a moment. And let's think about what actions are animal-like. It's not rocket science. Think about the manner you approach you wife for sex....does it reflect mercy....or is the manner rough, harsh? I don't know how quite to articulate it, but the words "rape" and "force" and "pressure" and "abuse" don't even have to be used in the hadith.....all these words/actions all fall under the "animal" category.

The fact that Rasool SAWS even warned the men against approaching their wives like animals........shows that it DOES happen in marriages. It DOES happen.....tab hi to unhon ne mana kiya hai..

Instead of wasting your time making arguments that "force" does not exist in a marriage and debating the validity of marital rape.............just reflect on the hadith. For the aqal mand banday, it will be sufficient. For those who have a huge ego......they will continue to argue that an aggressive approach to sex is totally acceptable.........because they know better than the Messenger SAWS.

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Re: Marital Rape…

Seriously:

As I said above.

**There is no room for denying spouse sexual gratification in marriage.
**
**If one is accepting other as a marriage partner then there should be enough attempt to satisfy other partner.
**
As much as it appears wrong for those who just love to believe the marital partners even after marriage have some kind of free life and personal space, that is not Islam promoted …ever.

As to RV post. Come on, please don’t get so emotional and be irrational. :smack:

Throwing one on to to other like an animal means something very different.

Animals don’t necessarily do the act in force.

They do the act just to get the pleasure.

What it could easily mean is not throw on other just to get the pleasure like animals, but show some good emotions also.

Let me clarify once again:** Marital partners have no right to refuse other sexual gratification.
**
On the other hand marital partners are not supposed to use other person’s body merely for sexual gratification…like animals. (Unless it is somehow verbally or by actions accepted by other partner)

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It's very strange that you gave my above post a "like," Eliminator. Did you read it carefully? In my post I quoted a hadith that reflects respect for women. If you "liked" my post, then it's mostly because you AGREE with the message in the hadith....therefore you are indirectly acknowledging that Islam does not advocate marital rape. But immediately after liking my post, you go on to BASH Islam again. That's a huge contradiction on your part; one that severely discredits you.

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Diwana…we’re not going to see eye-to-eye on this issue. I already knew you were going to severely limit your interpretation of “animal” to refer to being in a state where one is so caught up in passion that one skips foreplay and affection altogether. I’m not being emotional; I am not advocating that wives deny sex frequently without reason at the detriment of the marriage. I’m using my sense based on the above hadith. I don’t care if you disagree, Diwana, because I am not trying to convince you.

I am not denying that a husband and wife don’t have sexyal rights upon each other as some people in this thread are doing. Both partners DO indeed have such rights over each other…but there is a prescribed manner for fulfilling those rights. It is the right of a child that a father provide for him. But if the father is not fulfilling that right, does that give the child the “right” or even “liberty” to punch dad in the face in order to get that “haq” from him? No, it doesn’t.

I personally believe that a good Muslim husband would not try to limit/confine the interpretation of “animal” in the hadith…and would instead use his God-given aqal and zameer…to ask himself k kya mera yeh ravaiyya/attitude/ jaanwar jaisa hai ya nahi…is it dignified and respectable or no? A man who desires to be “careful” with the Prophet’s SAWS admonishment…is going to think very carefully about his attitude/words/manner actions…not in a limited/restricted sense…but har tarha se…har tarha se.…in an overall sense…k is imy behavior befitting of a human being or is it brusque and lacking refinement and respect as that of an animal’s behavior? Aik simple sa concept hai, you’re turning it into rocket science. I vaguely recall reading other references of the Prophet SAW’s guidance for men for during and after sex…and even they reflect consideration for the wife and her needs/desires. From A-Z…it’s supposed to reflect consideration for your wife. So, when you say, “show some good emotions” …that will not include an attitude/manner of roughness or disrespect toward your wife in any way. Baat khatam.

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Marital Rape......

Diwana what's your personal experience of intimacy or respecting each others sexual wishes in a marriage? My question never got answered so I'm just curious.

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You make assumptions, I never said I disliked Islam, the problem is not Islam it is the people who use it to disguise evil...read my post, people wearing the veil of Islam...I will surprise you that I know Islam more than most of the posters here, and my honey is the most spiritual muslim I have known, the point is no one can completely understand the intricacies of religion and we all have moral compasses, basic rule is do not be unjust, many hadith came at a time when men were providers, who is to say that now women don't need providing if men still have superiority over them, when a woman complained to prophet that husband slapped her she was told to slap him back, later revelations came that don't as men are providers, I am not my wifes provider any more so is she required to be obedient to me, she tried being obedient to me I forbade her, I wan't my woman to be strong, confident and feisty, god gave her a life and she has to live it as she pleases.
Where am I Islam bashing....there are millions of girls being abused people need t help them, it is a very wide spread problem, it is not islam bashing