Many of you many not be aware of it, or chose to ignore it ...

… but it is true. I was reading this thread… Suhag Raat](http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/Forum2/HTML/005093.html), and realized that many of the members think that pre-marital sex is probably non-existent in Pakistan. While most of us may wish it to be true… and I always thought it to be the case, trust me, I was in for a rude awakening when I was in college.

Allah ka shukr hai, that I kept myself distanced from such things, but I know it from very close friends and class-fellows, in fact I have seen it far too many times, to be proud of it… that pre-marital sex is rampant in colleges in big cities. Trust me the correct word is ‘rampant’. Extremely sad, but true.

In Lahore, even some of my own class-fellows had girl-friends, not just phone-friends or dinner-friends, but ‘real’ girl-friends. Some girls do it openly (so called broad-minded families), but most do it without the knoweldge of their parents.

The intent here is not to glamorize the issue or to generalize it. The idea is to raise awareness that something is wrong somewhere. Our culture is supposed to care for itself. I am sure if there is more parental influence on the kids, grand-parents given more respect, families being more together, these things never go out of hand.

Sadly, our society is becoming a target of foreign media invasion, where such things (pre-marital relationships) are projected as ‘fun’ and the ‘in-thing’.

In our college, me and a few friends, organzied the ‘Whats Wrong is Wrong’ campaign. It involved one-to-one and group sessions, where we impressed upon our group and other students that just because someone else is doing ‘it’ doesn’t make it right. And to have knoweldge about our religion and our culture is important. One thing we all agree on is that each one of us is going to die one day, and it is our deeds here which will go with us.

I am very glad to say that we had a remarkable success. Ofcourse, there are a few people here and there who just couldn’t give up (and used to call us spoil-sport and maulvis), but by and large we had a very succcessful campaign.

The rudest shock is that there is no, or apparently no, such support group in girls’ colleges. My feeling was that girls were doing it just for the heck of it. "Everyone is doing it’ sorta thing. Or probably they enjoy this sense of ‘adventure’. The % of girls indulging in this activity is much higher than what you and me can reasonably guess.

Those who are students right now can probably comment more clearly on this issue. Unfortunately, many of us just choose to ignore this issue or consider that it involves a very low percentage of our population, hence should be swept under the carpet. I’d say this is our future generations which are going astray. The collapse of family is the single most tragic aspect of western civilization. Are we inviting a similar disaster in our society by ignoring the tell-tale signs?

K this happened a few years before I joined PECHS
There is this huge hall which is closed to the students now
What happened was kay there was this girl who was having an affair with a boy and their parents opposed it
So the girl decided to ‘bhag kay shadi kar letay hain’

But this wasnt raat main bhagna
Her friends arranged the entire mayoon mehndi and rukhsati in the College right under the nose of the Principal

Then there was this memon girl who was banging everyone from the chookidaar to the canteen owner

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/rolleyes.gif

then she would come back the other day and openly announce the whole event

I still have to figure out why people feel the need to indulge in such activities …
K dont they have any consideration bout what their parents would go through once they found out ?

I still have no idea who to blame
The parents who fail to provide the love and attention the child needs
The child who needs to indulge in such activities for some attention

In almost all the cases the poor parents are unaware of the kartoots of their children
and when they find out its already too late

There was this girl in our section, she was having an affair with a guy whom she claimed to be her cousin
kher we just thought kay it was another one of those phone affairs
but soon he was visiting her every time her parents went out the house
Needless to say her parents had to marry her off in a hurry and today she is a mother of 3 kids and one is on the way
..the eldest one is not her husband’s

Mashallah say all the girls in our group werent involved in any of these activities
Not that we didnt have our share of usual celebrity crushes
I had one on Shabir Jan

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif

dont ask me why

but that was it …we went out for icecreams or had chat sessions after college
sometimes we bunked classes and would spend hours roaming Tariq road …It was fun

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif

[This message has been edited by Anchal (edited February 10, 2001).]

Alright,

the awareness is made. For sure.

But then what ?

When you're young, you feel as if you're invincible against anything.

I agree that if yu were the stuck-up type of peson who earlier on chose to be ignorant on such an issue of quite a few young Pakistanis doing this , then maybe now u will let go off a little pride you had for yourself (or the ignorance) & be a bit more compassionate to help out others ( the kids) if they need some sensible advice from you. If at all.

It drives me up the wall to see that when in the social bubble of the college life, u see many ppl (Pakistanis) right away tuning away those guys & girls who are "Awara." We look at them as if they're not even worth mingling with, or worth talking to cuz they're just all bad news.

But wouldn't you know it, sometimes they want a lending hand from others to get out of the mess they've gotten themselves into, but r just afraid to ask for help cuz they feel as if they wont' get any.

Pristine, it’s such a good topic that you posted

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

I agree with you that there’s probably a much higher percentage of young adults doing this in pakistan or elsewhere where pakistanis/muslims are residing. It’s truely sad to acknowledge it and accept it. The reason that people don’t hear of it much often is that it’s not accepted in that society, and why we hear of it much of it in the western world is because it is “accepted” to a higher degree.

I don’t know how this disturbing situation can be rectified. For some reason, and I may be wrong, the situation is inevitable and unstoppable due to the fact that it’s merely a matter of choice. With the society being exposed to “western” world, the society is being contaminated. There’s no way you can stop people, lest there be a stronger faith that they possess. Unfortunately, people are losing their values, faith, and beliefs, and are evidently becoming diluted.

What’s “in” is becoming a priority, and Islamic values are becoming secondary. Some people no longer have the courage/confidence to stand up to what’s wrong. Consequently, the society will slowly change to no less than the western one. And just imagine, what problems will arise in the society along with the ones that it has already.

I dunno…

Atleast what I think is that the situation is getting better. Young generation is turning away from bad stuff and turning to better activities. Atleast thats what I have noticed. More of the youngins are turning to religion and even praying fajr in mosques

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/ok.gif

(and playing cricket afterwards)

It all exists…yes! … I wouldnt say rampant though…

**
from MW:
2 a : marked by a menacing wildness
**

I went to GC and Crescent…I wouldnt say Rampant (or maybe I didnt notice

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/hoonh.gif

)

Yeah it's messed up. My parents moved back to pakistan cause they were worried we'd get ruined by the immorality here in the US. Funny thing is the same problems I ran across here I did in Pakistan. Actually they
were worse there.

My brother and I were always decent kids and still are today. We actually got made fun of more in Pakistan for having morals?! They could not believe I had never drank, smoked or slept around!? I wasn't even cool enough for Pakistan?? How sad?!

I had a friend who was shocked to go to what he thought was a nice party and it turned out to be a big orgy!? Then there were so many 'decent' guys who were begging me to use my apartment! When I refused they offered to pay... and then said they'd be willing to share ?! After that they hated my guts cause I knew the same girls they did but now I knew just how 'sweet' they really were.

They used to go on about how they wish Pakistan was more like in Amercia..only in the 'free sex' aspect. I'd always reply 'yeah, wouldn't it be great! Then your mom and dad could have a little fun outside the family too'. They didn't quite like that idea..

I was even made fun of this one time at a college picnic when they saw me stopping to do namaz?!

Anyhow it's basically the really insecure yet arrogant people who think and act this way. They spend all their time trying to be something 'better' not having any idea who they are to begin with.

I mean sex is a very healthy natural thing and it's certainly ok to love someone of your own free will..however I would think with love comes sincerity and commitment and responsibility. How much of any can you have if you will sleep with anyone given the opportunity?

You're right this is a very sad thing. Pakistan is already messed up as it is in so many ways. If people stop caring about having a family and raising their kids right..well how much lower can they go?


If you can not change it, get over it already!

Anchal aunty,

thanks for the truckload of gossip on the situation - both before and after you joined PECHS. hope to see even more "information" from you on the issue.

On a more serious note, A. Aunty, what is your opinion on someone making it out with the person they intent to marry? and then bragg about it? I have seen many desis do this. Would this fall in the same category? Are they a corrupting influence when they tout their pre-marital adventures to unmarried persons?

Its disgusting queer !!!

Intent to marry and already married are two different things

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Its sad but true. Socities have always had this issue. There have always been cases through out history of ‘Zina’ which is the correct islamic term. Actully people say that it was even worse in Pakistan during the 60’s. Teenagers will always go about doing such activites but i belive the rise is due to the all evil dish (sattelite TV)

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/wink.gif

Luckily i grew up without it. When one sees something which is wrong portrayed as right then the decision making abilites are seriously hampered. This is what is happening in the upper society in Pakistan. It is even worse in places with extreme poverty. Stories we heard about some naukar running off with this person and so on and so fourth…

The only difference is (which is also a huge difference) is that socially it is still considered wrong to have pre-martial sex in Pakistan. Maybe not in school but definately outside. That reduces the rise in the rate. If pakistan gets as bad as the West then we will have the same problems, abortions, AIDS, STD, teen age pregnancies and so on. Belive me… the society will never accept teen age pregnancies in Pakistan. I fear for the saftey of the girl. THere are a lot of weardios out there who just might kill her. It is not a pretty sight, Pakistan is the worst place for someone to be sleeping around, in terms of a personal saftey point of view. Upper society will be upper society and they will do wierd things. Once the middle class is damaged then Pakistan will be in serious trouble. Till then i think that we will be able to manage.

Well premarital sex has the same punishment as adultery in Islam. To prove such a thing is quite difficult though. We might know it is happenening.... but to prove it you need to have witnesses actually witnessing the sexual intercourse.... (whihc is normally done in secrecy and can't quite be proven).......

In some hadith (I can't say in which book or reference) a man approached the prophet and confessed about his affair...... The prophet replied that it was a secret and Allah never revealed it - the Man should do the same.......

However, premarital sex is a sad thing... as the saying goes the greatest evil the devil did was proving that it never existed... and that is why we feel premarital sex is right.

Tsk Tsk!!!! Sad but it is tru that it is happening!

Don't forget it might seem to be the "in" thing now.. but young people should realize about their future....

... how would husbands feel when they find out what their wives did... or vice versa.....

What kind of a marriage breakup that could result too.......

Young people don't realise that and waste their future by indulging in such activities.... Your future is much more than just romance and sex and flirtation...... THere are things to do, jobs to fininsh, mountains to climb that our society is falling behind... tsk tsk!

BR.Saadat

What is PECHS?

This is interesting. Good post Pristine.

Now where are the members that have previously insisted that such stuff just does not happen in Pakistan or "Islamic societies".

Great post

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/ok.gif

Pristine bhai!!!

I think this need for social reform needs to be addressed on a personal level. Certainly not as the radicals of religion want it to be but more so in a family environment.

Should I dare say that its cos our family system is falling apart??

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

Though I must confess that there are so many variables involved that I am sure a sociology/psychology major can write a thesis on it.

I do had a few friends who had “affairs” but I am proud to say nothing physical! Actually a couple of them finally got married.

The rest …

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/nook.gif

… I think lacked sincerity from the beginning

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/frown.gif


Humanity First! Though I give you the right to disagree …

Its a college in karachi …geez Roman

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Unfortunately, certain things for e.g. drinking & premarital sex/ adultery have & always will be a part of Pakistan among t/ upper, rich class Pakistanis, who neither represent Pakistan, not it's people & their culture.

However, generalizing this issue & comparing Pakistan to t/ West is simply not fair becuz
#1, unlike in t/ West where you're considered a geek or a nerd to be a virgin, in Pakistan (minus t/ upper class, even most of them don't think it's all that great as it's made out to be here) it is not only considered a norm but expected as such.

Also becuz #2) Families still play a major role in upbringing of a child & they do take that responsibility seriously. Not everyone sits around thr TVs' & watches Zee TV. There are still a lot of families who don't watch trash & good decent morals are quite prevelant.

T/ solution is good decent education, specially for girls. They MUST have some goals, some amibition to achieve in their education/ careers. Girls have xtremely low self esteem in our culture , due to various reasons. You're not gorii/ lumbii enough/ blah blah blah. Hence, when a jerk of a guy comes along & gives them t/ slightest bit of attention, they think he's gonna marry them & she'll be his queen!

It's a lenghty discussion, but t/ bottom line is give them good meaningful education, give them a goal other than that they have to get married by the time they are 18-20 etc. & you'll see t/ difference.

When I was growing up, I used to know a lot of girls including my friends, who wanted to do something important in life. They always wanted to be somebody, other than somebody's wife & thn somebody' Mom. Not that it's not important. However, all in good time. BE somebody yourself & THEN somebody's etc., etc. Nowadays, I have yet to meet a girl who truly has a desire to acquire higher education, go for a professional degree, or anything else besides get married cuz that's all they ever hear from their families. You can't really blame them!

[This message has been edited by FunkyDesi (edited February 15, 2001).]

aanchal bhabhi ,

What is the % of teen pregnancy in Australia?I dunno ,but in Pakistan pre marital sex by lack of oppertunity & hostile environment cant be very high.Here in us 50% of junior high & almost 90% of graduating high school have had it.I think in U.K. it is just as high AMONG ASIAN community including muslims of pakistan .
Even though the youth may not be moral by themselves,the society atleast in India limit the % to much less than what it can be if westernization is unchecked!

Some amount of pre marital sex has been with even in most religous society ,ala many movies like Dhool Ka Phool etc.
Its very scary spl. for parents of daughters ,a night mare .

very nice and sensitive issue to be brought up by Ms.Pristine Thanks and

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/ok.gif

for you.

“Charity begins at home” you all know.

Its the family and family brought up which matters, I can’t believe that children’s behaviour can remain concealed from the parents except in exceptional cases.So so shall you sow so shall you reap.
The other thing is when your children are turning in to teens, they need extra supervision, guidance and time which msot of the parents neglect I have seen. You (parents) have to make this sacrifice at this time even if you have to quit one of your job.Because if your “Aulad” is gone wrong every thing is gone, does’nt matter if they are successful in worthly terms.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/cool.gif

Why do I have the feeling that there is more to this question than just a general curiosity?

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/wink.gif

Queer… u wanna share something, then just do it.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

The guy was trying to be cheeky but realized his mistake in time ..otherwise he would be sitting here chewing on his words

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/rolleyes.gif