Re: Malaysia refuses to employ Pakistanis
What could be the reasons. Is the situation in India much worse (more unemployement etc.) than Pakistan that Indians are ready to work for much less pay than Pakistanis.
Re: Malaysia refuses to employ Pakistanis
just curious as to what you base this conclusion on?
Re: Malaysia refuses to employ Pakistanis
just a small diversion - pakistanis need to realize that religion is a private feeling and shud not bring it to public spheres.. this is the main reason why they feel bad when countries like malaysia or arab countries do not treat them better or equal to non-muslim countries... the disappointment is partly due to naively believing that being muslim would grant them privileges over non-muslims, which sadly is not true all the time... most other, (in fact almost all other) muslim countries separate business and commerce frm the realm of religion and do not have a partial mindset when it comes to dealing with non-muslim countries.. it is only pakistan and few other (coincidentally developing and underdeveloped) muslim countries that still believe in the ummah and the khilafah... wake up friends and see the reality.. if pakistan must progress we must lay more stress on work ethic rather than trust blindly on our religious passport.
Re: Malaysia refuses to employ Pakistanis
Nikhil, my post is not meant to be insulting in anyway, but based on what I have seen myself. Last I checked for foreign workers there were not the same parity standards as they have in US (even though companies had figured out ways to circumvent the labour rules in terms of pay). I personally consider these exploitative as they pay people from diff countries differently for the same role. part of it is also due to home country salary plus overseas assignment bonuses in which case a person from india would defintely make less than someone from UK and that is understood, but it applies to expats, and not foreign workers.
-
Have family in middle east running their own businesses, or working in roles where they have to hire people and heard from them that the desired salary asked by Indian workers is very often lower than others.
-
Lived in middle east myself. Father was head of major operations and that is his observation as well.
-
Worked on numerous Cost restructuring projects SG&A reduction etc where persons role, fully loaded costs, etc are provided to us, and we saw major differences in the salaries. Indian workers (or so I assumed by name) were making less than the locals, europeans, pakistanis ( again, assumed by name). For the same role, same level an indian would be making significantly less than lets say an egyptian. And although there are salary ranges for every role, it was rather strange to see indians being on the lower side of the pay scale majority of the time. of course this did not apply to senior level people in which case they were equal to or more than their counterparts from other countries.
Re: Malaysia refuses to employ Pakistanis
the tendency by many to take short cuts is a major issue.
the lower class pakistanis in labor roles in midle east really messed up the reputation of Pakistan and pakistanis.
Re: Malaysia refuses to employ Pakistanis
Spot On
Re: Malaysia refuses to employ Pakistanis
What do you mean by Lower Level Fraudz? People who work in the basement?? The reputation of Pakistan is ruined because of Pakistanis in general. I don’t know how can a menial worker repairing potholes in roads in Abu Doobi can ruin the image of Pakistan.
Re: Malaysia refuses to employ Pakistanis
Pakistan should concentrate more on providing more jobs to Pakistanis in Pakistan rather than trying to pawn its citizens off formally.
Re: Malaysia refuses to employ Pakistanis
don’t worry, i didn’t take it as an insult, as there is no reason to. i totally believe indians are paid less than most foreigners. i was just wondering why they ask for less pay than pakistanis. i would imagine the socio-economic situations of pakistani, indian, and to a lesser extent, bangladeshi menial laborers would be similar. using this assumption, a difference in pay seems illogical. i can’t imagine an indian voluntarily working for less than the maximum he can get away with, meaning there must be some other reason if this is in fact true.
Re: Malaysia refuses to employ Pakistanis
if u think indians are so menial and pakistanis are so noble, then:
-
why are there so many pakistanis working as domestic help in saudi homes, ready to pick up the droppings of the sheik’s dogs?
-
why shud pakistanis care about this situation if they are noble and do not prefer to lower their self-respect? why go to malaysia and beg an audience with the ministry of labor??
pir sahib, ur reply is a classic case of sour grapes or better still, KHATTE ANGOOR!!!
Re: Malaysia refuses to employ Pakistanis
I don't think Fraudz said anything that looks like sour grapes. He has said that in his experience, Indian workers in Gulf Arab countries at the lower skill position tend to charge lesser than some other nationalities. I'm not sure if that is a statistically verified thing, but I don't think Fraudz means to degrade Indians per se.
Re: Malaysia refuses to employ Pakistanis
dude, i seriously think u need to enroll in an elementary reading course... when he sez indians work like dogs and they enjoy being treated like crap, do u still think he is only stating an objective view of the topic? apne pir sahab har topic mein kaise bhi apne anti-india jingoism ko le ate hain... that aint good.. in fact the topic started with how pakistanis are being refused jobs by malaysia... instead of discussing how pakis can improve or what they lack, he goes on berating indians as shameless coolies and aur ek aap hain jo us sab ko ignore kar rahen hain.. sigh looks like bigotry can never be rooted out of desiland :(
Re: Malaysia refuses to employ Pakistanis
Take that chip off your shoulder and realize that not everyone here has to be anti-pakistan or anti-india. Its good to see that nikhil and talwar both see the point here.
If you go back and read, i have stated that Pakistanis have hurt themselves, especially the lower level workers have created a negative image. Fact of the matter is Pakistanis are refered to as rafeeq and indians as rafeeq too. Fact of the matter is that they are not treated in the same menner as workers from other arab countries or europe or US.
If you can care to leave or irrational hang ups with anytime someone says anything negative about India and just think about it, nothing that i said was meant to be insulting. No need to be defender of the motherland.
btw: sour grapes is the same thing as khatte angoor.
Re: Malaysia refuses to employ Pakistanis
work liek dogs means work hard as hell, if anything that is meant to be a compliment.
and that they put up with being trated like dogs, is a fact. Ask indians who have worked in middle east about public attitudes towards them.
when exactly have you seen anti-India jingoism in my posts, dont think everyone is like you.
you are incorrect in saying that I never addressed the Pakistan part of the equation, if you go back and read i have mentioned that pakistanis taking short cuts has hurt them. Your eyes must have glazed over by the time you got to that part.
once again, i did not berate indiansd as shameless coolies, but mentioned that those in high positions have earned a lot of respect. I am referring to your run of the mill low level clerical guy.
bigotry can not be rooted out of desiland until people like you are around, I agree
Re: Malaysia refuses to employ Pakistanis
Nikhil, I am not sure of the reasons of the difference. This is not just menial labour but also lower level office staff, junior staff etc. Now there is s technology boom in India and all, but not everyone has benefitted from it, and I suppose they are really motivated to go out and work at low pay.
Its not unique to middle east, if you recall there were Indian software engineers being abused by an Indian outsourcing company which had sent them here. Why, i dont know, but it happened, and it was not unique, during tech boom here, companies brought workers over, kept them in crappy apartments, made them work like hell and paid them peanuts compared to what the company was charging for these programmers time.
I am just noting what I have seen so far. the most recent one was a project in UAE in 2001-2002.
Re: Malaysia refuses to employ Pakistanis
How the heck do you turn a "Pakistanis refused by Malaysia" thread into "why do Indians get paid less" discussion! This is probably why Malaysia refused Pakistanis. Never focus on the job at hand but do a grand job of everything else
Re: Malaysia refuses to employ Pakistanis
Heck I dont know what the big deal is. How many Pakistanis actually prefer Malaysia over middle east- NOT MANY i presume.
I remember back in the 80’s when there was a job boom in Kuwait, some people in my village made so much money, they got refrigerators for their houses. Now back then, our village dint have electricity so they used the fridges to store clothes and stuff. 
Re: Malaysia refuses to employ Pakistanis
I don't think it is such a trivial deal as some would make it out to be. India and Pakistan are both densely populated countried, with a large below poverty level population and latge un and under employment problems. So if jobs can be had in another country that reduces unemployment at home, brings in wealth through remittances and all that can only help. Minimizing these and other attendent benefits is not helpful.
I remember 10 years ago some elitist derision of India software export as 'body shop'. Look how far that has come today, how much that has changed attitudes inside that country and how much respect the country as a whole has earned. In 10 years, the snake charming image is almost gone. Many factors but foreign jobs I think were a great catalyst.
Hence the need to take note of events such as the Malaysial refusal.
Re: Malaysia refuses to employ Pakistanis
I agree with Atlantis that it is NOT a trivial issue, this is alarming and should cause the govt. to take a strong note and respond by figuring out the issue first and then putting a solution in place to avoid this in future. Having a proper governance system in place these sorts of things can be addressed but with the types of govt. we have and we have had things like this don’t matter because the leadership is/was busy securing their own personal wealth and/or positions.
Although it is true that the labor class can be attributed to the negative “image” of Pakistan in ME but it will be unfair to solely lay the blame on them. These poor soles have little or no opportunities in Pakistan and they have to be displaced from their homes with virtually no skills and they automatically assume the role of ambassadors for the nation where ever they go. Their attitudes and actions project an image which is the reflection of nation’s values and attitudes, so it will be unfair to lay the blame on just the laborers migrating from Pakistan.
Re: Malaysia refuses to employ Pakistanis
Atlantis, it did not turn into it there are various factors that would impact employers' willingness to hire workers from a particular country, skillset, work ethic, costs, cultural alignment etc. I had expanded on the costs aspect of it, and touched upon the work ethic part.
It is indeed not a trivial issue, if events like these close doors for Pakistani workers it is defintely a problem because people working aborad not only provide foriegn exchange but raise their family's standard of living and the trajectory for their future generations.
Chachoo, as far as Pakistani image in other countries, if it does not rest on Pakistanis, then who is responsible for that image? I lived in saudi Arabia and I saw the mess that the labor class ppl created there, ranging from petty thefts to frauds, add to it the hot temper and ego that they have clashing with the superiority compexes of the Saudis, and it was a mess.
The professionals were seen with a lot of respect before the influx of the rowdy crowd, and were seen with respect even after that, but the overall pakistani image changed.
When you bring in government responsibilities, sure there are some, but how does a government stop its citizens who happen to be idiots, from acting like idiots when in a different country. breaking its laws, creating a mess..
Now add to it other countries concerns about extremists in Pakistan, and it becomes another reason why they would shy away from hiring Pakistani workers.
Much of a nation's destiny is in its own hands, the image that it earns is partially what the international image of the country is, and partially what its citizens have earned due to their actions.