Making Pakistan a better place to live..

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Re: Making Pakistan a better place to live..

coolguy its not just that, i know docs who wanted to serve in rural areas but in teh end felt that their way of life and that of the rural area were way too different, how do you expect a doctor with a family to work in a rural area where sending girls to schools is frowned upon ans he has his own daughters he needs to educate, or where his wife has to become someone else in order to fit in and not be gawked at. where his safety is at stake at all times..

Now this is the case from docs that i heard in late late 80's all thru 90's and have not kept with it since but those were huge concerns. what do they d then, have their practice in a rural area while the family is in the city? it is hard to afford running two households and then being away from home created hardships and security concerns for their families.

It is easy to bash them, but if you scratch the surface and look at the issues and not just the nice to read, emptional sloganeering, thats when

and lastly..we screw over urban students and allow rural students with worse grades to get into med schools, and these rural students are the ones who then do not go back to serve their own villages and qasbahs. they too choose to stay in cities or go abroad right?

so that in mind, the whole policy of quota for rural areas needs to be abolished,

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Re: Making Pakistan a better place to live..

My phuppa and phuppi, both doctors, who were educated in UK, and practised in US went back to Pakistan in the 80's. the built a hospital and were using their expertise there. but what do they get for their patriotism, they get car jacked, they get robbed, they get kidnap threats against their kids, and in the end my uncle gets kidnapped from his own hospital.

end result, they packed up and moved back to US.

you want expatriates to come back, fix the damn mess you have created in the country.

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Re: Making Pakistan a better place to live..

^ So true.

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Re: Making Pakistan a better place to live..

many of them think that when thier mates have on running mission...why to waste time in villages...just suck the blood of poor for Rs. 700 per visit of a good physicians...not look them in government hospitals...but give address of thier private clinics...to suck even the last drops of blood from thier body !!!!!!!!!!

when thier fellows are earning Rs.200,000 per month...why they not...its unjustice...:)

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but lets not just focus on one small specialized field here. Is that the only problem in Pakistan right now? and as far as problems go, all I know is that college clubs in US do neighbourhood cleanups as social service, they do fundraising for service organizations. I am sorry to say I dont see much of that in Pakistan, I guess the term is nafsa nafsi?
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this is one social aspect of USA and its good ethical values....but when 6 crore people are living under poverrty line...then such luxuries of fund raising for cleanups cannot be **affordable **as people have not even money to get roti of 2 times...

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so when you make a broad generalization about pakistanis who are abroad about the ones who left rather than choosing to help their country, it appears that the country has gotten worse over the decades, and its not because of people whoa re not living there, but it is due to the people living there.
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because good people ..in sake of money...have escaped and now blamming the rest one for all that...

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the analogy that comes to mind is that you are asking ppl abroad to come and help pick up the trash that ppl living in pakistan are throwing around every day, without holding people in pakistan accountable for picking up their own trash or at minimum stop throwing more trash.
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exactly...100%...much time these people have served thier masters....many minarates have they made of pounds and dollars...many slogans and mud-slingering they have encountered...now its time to serve your home-land....which made you to that place and people run like escaped prisoners just for greed of money....

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Fix your own mess..instead of blaming the small percentage of population that is overseas. and the ppl overseas are not just doctors and engineers it includes thousands upon tusands of blue collar workers living in horrid consitions in UAE and saudi arabia woring their butts off, and the money that they are sending is transofming entire families, khandans, villages..and teh foriegn exchange has a positiv impact on the entire country.
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UAE workers are low educated..living in strict conditions...and working under hardships....god bless them...financial problems ...they face and they are doing thier jobs well to do that...but not of engineers and doctors living like princes under thier masters.....they should come and serve in villages...so that poor people of pakistan can also get chance to get basic health conditions ..and necessities....

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so fiz your own mess rather than pointing fingers..

I did not create it, I did not add to it, I did not participate in it, I did not benefit from it, why the hell should I be on the hook for cleaning it up.
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that why i already said...to curtain this problem...one has 1001 bahanais...just its difficult to leave luxuries and princely life styles...no matter you have to be ruined by a common man...and treated as third class.....

but my dear brother...Patriotism is far far another thing from these low level things of money...and luxuries.....

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Re: Making Pakistan a better place to live..

no its not extremism...its all truth...which has bitter taste but have guts and courage to accept its bitterness...

i dont bother about all thse lame excuses...when you have lived thier for 24 years etc...then serve here...true...higher education is necessary but then come back and serve your own country...not masters.....

I dont like that i am treated with disrespect...and ruined my dignity in masrter's country...i can live with relatively low salary rates...but in my own country...with respect and dignity...where nobody will ever dare to say a single word to me......

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Re: Making Pakistan a better place to live..

bhai... why are u so bitter and who has disrespected u and who is saying what to u??... seems like u have lived a hard and sad life... cheer up :)

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Re: Making Pakistan a better place to live..

so one wring justifies another in your view? and the ppl in pakistan making excuses are justified? okay I see where you are coming from

as i said if actions of locals can be justified than i guess you are just on a a witchhunt :)

the nawabzaday and prince who are playingin the galli all day are not poor financially. they are bankrupt in the area of compassion.

so good ppl have left and all the bottom of the barrel trash is what is left?is that what yoy are saying

how do u epxect them to serve their country? explain that. a minimum wage contructon worker who went to dubai to spend all his life away from his wife and kids and siblings and parents. you really think he is greedy or that he had n choice. does he have a choice now...millions of jobs that he can come and work in and provide for his family?

as I said, please look at doc/capita in cities versus villages and then figure out what the issue is. convince docs in Pakistan to go to villages first and then you can expect ppl who went overseas to come back.

sorry man no bahanas. niether of your points apply to me so I dont have to offer any bahanas. I was not born in Pakistan, so I never left Pakistan, so I can not 'return' to Pakistan :)

my dear brother. the excellent people of pakistan show me every day what patriotism is. I see it on TV, i read it in the news and all. They always put their country ahead of themselves. and that shows in the excellent %age of pakistanis that pay their taxes. jazak Allah

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Re: Making Pakistan a better place to live..

to solve all problems in Pakistan is to build up the economy....

once the economy gets build, this will create a strong middle class which cannot be intimidated by the higher class and can actually demand better civil services which the higher classes don't require as they have personal body guards, etc....

So this will mean a more robust police force which is highly paid, crackdown on corruption, decline in crime as less people are lured into illicit ways of making money than honest ones.

So get an economy going, we need foreign investors, which is exactly what Musharraf is doing.

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Re: Making Pakistan a better place to live..

unless you are a karachiite :) cuz then its open season on you and your patriotism and all.

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Re: Making Pakistan a better place to live..

Since when do clean-ups require money????

The Random Thread
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Re: Making Pakistan a better place to live..

Karachi in 80's and still yet...by blessings of MQM...not so surprising.....all these things still happen today.....but taking one example cannot justify your views and points.....are also these things happens in other cities to such extent...yes robbing is there..are these not in USA...they are angels...the blacks are very pious and Mutaqqi people...2000 women rape in USA daily...what the hell justice department do...crimes rates...in USA...hahahaha....what a joke should i give you that statistics.....if a pakistani women doctor....is raped thier included in 2000 rape daily taking place...then to who she blame...atleast in pakistan...not such thingg happened...plz...dont give me Dr Shazia....example....1 in 30 years or so....where as 2000 women daily in USA.....

who the hell saying these doctors to bring thier whole family with them...they live in cities while doctors live in government residence and visit thier families on Saturday and Sunday....whts so difficult ...just lame excuses...in greed of money.....

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Now this is the case from docs that i heard in late late 80's all thru 90's and have not kept with it since but those were huge concerns. what do they d then, have their practice in a rural area while the family is in the city? it is hard to afford running two households and then being away from home created hardships and security concerns for their families.

It is easy to bash them, but if you scratch the surface and look at the issues and not just the nice to read, emptional sloganeering, thats when
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^^

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and lastly..we screw over urban students and allow rural students with worse grades to get into med schools, and these rural students are the ones who then do not go back to serve their own villages and qasbahs. they too choose to stay in cities or go abroad right?

so that in mind, the whole policy of quota for rural areas needs to be abolished,
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merit is purely on NTS and FSc...and when they see thier friends are escaping in money hunt contest...they also feel like that...wo khatai hai na.....

Kharboozai ko daikh kar kharbooza rung pakarta hai....

The Random Thread
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Re: Making Pakistan a better place to live..

the theory here is that college students in US whoa re working part time to pay for their expenses have all the time in the world to go and take on such projects but the nawabzaday in pakistan who live at home, have everything paid for and sit on te street corner every evening just hanging out dont have theluxury of time to go clean up a poor neighbourhood...

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Re: Making Pakistan a better place to live..

sorry, teh carjacking and robbery was before MQm came in power and teh kidnapping was during benazir's tenure :)

completely irrelevant to teh discussion at hand..
please be coherent in your posts, bravado and passion are not a substitute for logic and rational thinking

so the doctors in pakistan are greedy?
not everyone is comfortable leaving their wife and kids alone for the whole week. Its a personal choice and makes sense.
dont force urban docs to go to rura areas, rural area students who got into med chools because of teh fact they are rural students need to go back and serve their communities.

so some kharboozas are okay to blame, but others are not because they dont have a capacity to think and be rational and make their own decisions.

but yeah I suppose there are many kharboozas in pakistan who saw other kharboozas, shows in the fantastic percentage of population that pays their taxes :) magar excuses toh bohot hain na wahan...

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Re: Making Pakistan a better place to live..

not all those...many doctors are just excellent and see the patients free ...of cost...in evening....give them medicines from thier own...these few culprits and black sheep also in pakistan...what so strange about that....

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as i said if actions of locals can be justified than i guess you are just on a a witchhunt :)
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diseasse spreads other diseases.. :)

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the nawabzaday and prince who are playingin the galli all day are not poor financially. they are bankrupt in the area of compassion.
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plus also who suicide daily in large no. due to poverty...lets also not forget them.....

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so good ppl have left and all the bottom of the barrel trash is what is left?is that what yoy are saying
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Alhumdullilah...many good people return and serve thier country...thats why still it is running...6000 engineers and scientists are working only in NDC(Pakistan Missile Program)..many are foreign educated but come to serve thier country...and thats why Pakistan Missile Program is miles ahead of Indian...i think 3rd or 4th in the world...

all those who dont return...you call them good...but i call them greedy....

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how do u epxect them to serve their country? explain that. a minimum wage contructon worker who went to dubai to spend all his life away from his wife and kids and siblings and parents. you really think he is greedy or that he had n choice. does he have a choice now...millions of jobs that he can come and work in and provide for his family?
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i am not talking about him...he has genuine reasons...but not those doctors..engineers...and finance students ...to serve thier...they have good salary rates in Pakistan also...though not minarates of dollars and pounds...as if they want.....

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as I said, please look at doc/capita in cities versus villages and then figure out what the issue is. convince docs in Pakistan to go to villages first and then you can expect ppl who went overseas to come back.
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and i am saying that thousands of seats are empty because many escapers have left a large vacuum ..plus girls also...who waste the seats of boys also.....

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sorry man no bahanas. niether of your points apply to me so I dont have to offer any bahanas. I was not born in Pakistan, so I never left Pakistan, so I can not 'return' to Pakistan :)

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i am not saying to you specifically...i am talking in general....so chill .. :)

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my dear brother. the excellent people of pakistan show me every day what patriotism is. I see it on TV, i read it in the news and all. They always put their country ahead of themselves. and that shows in the excellent %age of pakistanis that pay their taxes. jazak Allah
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there are more than crore government servants...which have to pay taxes...government automatically collect from thier salaries....many businessmen also pay taxes...but few big fish dont ...its not mean that..all pakistanis are like same.....

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Re: Making Pakistan a better place to live..

and thousands fold happen daily in USA... :)

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completely irrelevant to teh discussion at hand..
please be coherent in your posts, bravado and passion are not a substitute for logic and rational thinking
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completely dealing with topic...all those who are prooving Pakistan a paradise of robbers and thugs...not watching what is happening in the heaven of USA.....crimes rates are the worst in all kind...and greatest in no. so not any justification....:)

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so the doctors in pakistan are greedy?
not everyone is comfortable leaving their wife and kids alone for the whole week. Its a personal choice and makes sense.
dont force urban docs to go to rura areas, rural area students who got into med chools because of teh fact they are rural students need to go back and serve their communities.
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no sir..when you are government servant...its not you who are policy-makers....you ahve to go where government is sending you...Are these things and braveryu is also shown in USA hospitals...wherever they send you...you put your head down...because in that case dollars are shinning in front of you...while in pakistan ...its not the case.....

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so some kharboozas are okay to blame, but others are not because they dont have a capacity to think and be rational and make their own decisions.

but yeah I suppose there are many kharboozas in pakistan who saw other kharboozas, shows in the fantastic percentage of population that pays their taxes :) magar excuses toh bohot hain na wahan...
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why people who are earning minarate of dollars and pounds come....give CSS and PCS...be in finance and revenue department and collect the taxes in pure and crystal clear way...so that poor of Pakistan also get a chance to your experience of MBA and Accounting etc.....

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Re: Making Pakistan a better place to live..

there has to be a balance, a doc cant see all patients for free or give all of thm medicine from their pocket.

so what disease started it all? lets think about that.

plus those who are ven mor epoor but dont commit suicide so lets not forget that....

so are you saying that the country would not run if ppl did not come back, is that how bad it is. Is that how bad and incompetent ppl in Pakistan are that they need a handful of people to return to make the country work

pak missile porgram is not 3rd of 4th in the world..thank you.

and yes many dedicated ppl return to serve their country, my father being one who declined offers of 6 figure jobs in UK to go to Pakistan and work on infrastcructure projects ranging from urban renewal, to slums development to rural areas, teach at engineering schools and all until his retirement.

However I am shocked to hear that you feel that the population in pakistan is unable to solve atleast a lareg chunk of its own problems.

your definition of greedy is very skewed. what d u call ppl in pakistan who are not paying taxes. I call them greedy too.

fine man, make docs sign something that at minimum they have to serve in teh cuntry for x years or they cant get a degree. that decision squareky sits in teh hands of ppl in pakistan.

I am completely chilled, i just thought I would clarify so you know that even if you were saying to me specifically it would not matter one bit :)

your homework is to go and find out what percentage of pakistanis pay their taxes. lets just say its not a 'few big fish'

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Re: Making Pakistan a better place to live..

Its means Karachi is now empty of any doctor and doctors are not living there....its more blame on those karachites who elect them again and again on the foolish etnicity of Muhajjirs....when you love biasness...then eat its fruits also...from your same Muhajjirs.....

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Re: Making Pakistan a better place to live..

LOL...Musharraf is doing...man...have you evr been to pakistan now-a-days ????????

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Re: Making Pakistan a better place to live..

ya, I am planning to go there for 4 months...

please don't assume just because I praise Pakistan it means I have never been there

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Re: Making Pakistan a better place to live..

what a ridiulous argument.

first of all you dont know jack about crime rates.
second now you are scrambling to maintain your argument by running to tangents.
and as far as my uncle and aunt goes, they experence these violent crimes in the 15 years they spent in Pakistan, and lets see rest of their life in UK, USA and dubai how much violent crime...err zero.
so not only is it a good reason it is a damn good reason
for an expat to come back to pakistan and see what the locals have turned it to must be a disappointing experience.

1- for residnecy its not where teh govt sends u in US but where you match...very diff issue

2-for greencard thats when docs are sent to rural under served areas

3- pakistani govt and institutions can employ service requirements as well

are there not enough finance people in Pakistan? tons of ppl doing bcom and mcom, and many mba institutions now exist...or are they third rate professonals compared to the ones that left?

what is your educational background? what are you doing for the country in your zeal of patriotism :)