dear dr supergenius sir, i am going by what dawn says. I know your word rivals even Time magazine, and that dawn means nothing in front of your amazing holy soliloquy. I agree with your stance on women wholeheartedly: stupid women. dam them and their complaints of rape and forced marriages. sali paindos!
Re: Makhdoom Amin Fahim's Brother in laws
All the mods are sleeping as usual, RebelX is having a mouth diarrhea all over this thread and no mod is seeing his posts.
dear dr supergenius sir, i am going by what dawn says. I know your word rivals even Time magazine, and that dawn means nothing in front of your amazing holy soliloquy. I agree with your stance on women wholeheartedly: stupid women. dam them and their complaints of rape and forced marriages. sali paindos!
And your word/rant here is as meaningless and dry as McDooms bid for presidency.
And your word/rant here is as meaningless and dry as McDooms bid for presidency.
dear dr aanhazrat ma'aab,
i understand your failure, and the way you are trying to hide it through inferior pokes at your heroic democrat or democrats. no need to hide it.
But then again, dawn MUST be wrong and we must all take your word for it. dr. mcdhoom can never do any wrong. those women are to blame. stupid women.
Re: Makhdoom Amin Fahim's Brother in laws
what lends credence to this story is the varying sources and duration of reporting on this. cowasjee's personal sources in an article dated 2002. Tariq Ali's book (which was fundamentalism and not a hit piece on any one person) somewhere in between and then The News article from last year citing people from around the area.
aisay to pakistan mai kissi ka corruption bhi prove nahi hua. that doctor who was raped in balochistan could've been faking it. leghari might not have swallowed a small bank or two. in Pakistan's perennially lawless elite, strong hearsay should count as conviction.
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Re: Makhdoom Amin Fahim’s Brother in laws
Apparently the Makhdoom family has already denied it, so that should be enough I guess.
Re: Makhdoom Amin Fahim's Brother in laws
so? does any politician accept any charge levelled against him? Musharraf denies corruption charges, Altaf denies murders, what meaning does it have?
rare is it for women to choose not to marry in pakistan's traditional society, without some sort of economic/social reason. we can rule the affordability part out. 4 sisters, unmarried in a prominent, well-off political family reeks of foulplay. add to that multiple, unrelated sources of the same information over different periods, and the denial stretches plausibility.
so? does any politician accept any charge levelled against him?
So what else do you want him to do, apart from denying it? Rape, corruption etc are different, they are 'crimes', that can be proven in the court of law. This cant be, so a public denial is all they can do.
Ok you modified your post, added some more stuff.... so see below:
so? does any politician accept any charge levelled against him? Musharraf denies corruption charges, Altaf denies murders, what meaning does it have?
What about the CONVICTION handed against Altaf by the courts of Pakistan? Isnt that enough to prove hes guilty? He can deny it all he wants, but hes convicted of the crime.
[quote]
rare is it for women to choose not to marry in pakistan's traditional society, without some sort of economic/social reason. we can rule the affordability part out. 4 sisters, unmarried in a prominent, well-off political family reeks of foulplay. add to that multiple, unrelated sources of the same information over different periods, and the denial stretches plausibility.
[/quote]
Come on, even Fatima Jinnah was unmarried. Fahim is a very liberal, sufi-darvaish, poet sorta guy who even admits he drinks alcohol. You cant blame him like that especially if they have denied this.
duplicate post, delete...
So what else do you want him to do, apart from denying it? Rape, corruption etc are different, they are 'crimes', that can be proven in the court of law. This cant be, so a public denial is all they can do.
he could always do more. dawn and the news are prominent newspapers, tariq ali is a well circulated and respected London based author, and this is an explosive charge repeated many times. Sue them if hes clean.
This can be proved, and this can be hidden, just as easily in a court of law as any other crime. If witnesses exist and if they are not afraid of dying when they testify, this could be proven with just as much ease as anything else.
What about the CONVICTION handed against Altaf by the courts of Pakistan? Isnt that enough to prove hes guilty? He can deny it all he wants, but hes convicted of the crime.
So in the history of Pakistani politics, there is one (or two or five) criminal politicians?
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Come on, even Fatima Jinnah was unmarried.
[/quote]
I said it was rare. 4 in one household is whats unusual.
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Fahim is a very liberal, sufi-darvaish, poet sorta guy who even admits he drinks alcohol. You cant blame him like that especially if they have denied this.
[/QUOTE]
I can. I've met many "traditional" people in my life who drank alcohol and even did drugs. "Traditional" when it came to women that is.
he could always do more. dawn and the news are prominent newspapers, tariq ali is a well circulated and respected London based author, and this is an explosive charge repeated many times. Sue them if hes clean.
Its his choice, maybe he doesnt want to. A denial is more than enough, considering this is no criminal charge by any law enforcing authority.
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This can be proved, and this can be hidden, just as easily in a court of law as any other crime. If witnesses exist and if they are not afraid of dying when they testify, this could be proven with just as much ease as anything else.
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Again, he doesn't need to, just like how I wouldn't need to go explain my siblings actions because I am not accountable for them.
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So in the history of Pakistani politics, there is one (or two or five) criminal politicians?
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You quoted Altaf, and said he denied the murder charge, without knowing he was already convicted in a murder case, theres a reason why hes out of the country. Theres quite alot of other politicians too.
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I said it was rare. 4 in one household is whats unusual.
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The source I read said Makhdoom has two sisters, so its just based on rumours.
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I can. I've met many "traditional" people in my life who drank alcohol and even did drugs. "Traditional" when it came to women that is.
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The reason why I even brough Amin's character here, was because you had no official evidence apart from one authors accusation to begin with, so his character would be a good indication of whether he would support such a silly concept as marriage to the Quran, and his character states otherwise. On top of that, his family has denied it, so unless you want God to speak from the heavens, theres nothing more that can be done to dismiss this.
Its his choice, maybe he doesnt want to. A denial is more than enough, considering this is no criminal charge by any law enforcing authority.
So because its not criminal that lessens the moral import of the charge? This is much more reprehensible than any corruption charge.
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Again, he doesn't need to, just like how I wouldn't need to go explain my siblings actions because I am not accountable for them.
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A brother is indeed responsible for his sisters in Pakistani society, especially traditional sindhi society. It is most likely that any marital relations established between Fahim's sisters and the Quran were mediated and brokered by their male sibling.
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You quoted Altaf, and said he denied the murder charge, without knowing he was already convicted in a murder case, theres a reason why hes out of the country. Theres quite alot of other politicians too.
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I quoted Altaf amongst others. You fixated on Altaf while ignoring the multitude of politicians who's corruption is an open secret but never convicted. Like I said it seems like Altaf and ZAB are the only murderous politicians and Nawaz is the only treasonous one.
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The source I read said Makhdoom has two sisters, so its just based on rumours.
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Which source is that? The one you posted quotes one of the sources I posted, so if the second one is referencing the first, its merely inaccurate.
[quote]
The reason why I even brough Amin's character here, was because you had no official evidence apart from one authors accusation to begin with, so his character would be a good indication of whether he would support such a silly concept as marriage to the Quran, and his character states otherwise. On top of that, his family has denied it, so unless you want God to speak from the heavens, theres nothing more that can be done to dismiss this.
[/QUOTE]
Who has official evidence on these forums? Have you any "official" evidence against Musharraf or Shaukat Aziz or Zardari? The only thing you or i or anyone else has here are talking points and reported news.
You are right, there probably can be nothing more done about it, and it isnt something likely to be proven either way. Just as most of Zardari's corruption isnt likely to be proven either. Doesnt stop me and many others from believing Zardari to be Mr 10% and likewise for Quran's brother in law Makhdoom.
[quote]
I quoted Altaf amongst others. You fixated on Altaf while ignoring the multitude of politicians who's corruption is an open secret but never convicted. Like I said it seems like Altaf and ZAB are the only murderous politicians and Nawaz is the only treasonous one.
[/quote]
Nope, you only quoted Altaf and Musharraf. Which others did you quote, leghari? Altaf, I already proved you were wrong because he was convicted on murder charges. The other one you quoted, Musharraf, well we have to wait a little because you cant expect his own courts to deliver a sentence against him while hes their boss. And your other examples lol comparing this zardari's corruption! He might not be convicted of anything (we all know why) but theres a reason why hes spent half his life in jail and the fact taht everyone in the country refers to him as mr 10%. Also, its not just one author who made an allegation against zardari out of the blue to sell his book! Its all over the media!
Now equating or comparing all that to this whole Fahim's sisters allegedly getting married to the Quran, based on rumors, which his family has denied, is silly if you ask me, but carry on, because we should discuss every such accusation and rumour every tom dick harry comes up with.
A denial by Fahim's family is good enough to counter such a rumour though.
Re: Makhdoom Amin Fahim's Brother in laws
Cowasjee and Tariq Ali are not "every Tom, Dick and Harry". Two of the more prominent Pakistani journalists/media people have either published as fact, or published as something "worth a quote" this allegation.
Were you expecting ANYTHING but a denial? Tell me, assuming this was true, do you expect a politician to own upto this?
Cowasjee and Tariq Ali are not "every Tom, Dick and Harry". Two of the more prominent Pakistani journalists/media people have either published as fact, or published as something "worth a quote" this allegation.
Were you expecting ANYTHING but a denial? Tell me, assuming this was true, do you expect a politician to own upto this?
Actually, I wasnt even expecting him to bother replying to this, but the fact that they denied it, is better than nothing.
I am not saying this because I want him to be the PM, again, if you go back and read my older posts, I wasnt very fond of Makhdoom's bid to premiership in the first place.
p.s. cowasjee etc can be wrong too, and also how come its all based on his 'unnamed' sources. If he wants us to believe him, he has to name his sources.
Re: Makhdoom Amin Fahim’s Brother in laws
Ok so turns out Mr. Cowasjee received an email in 2002 (right before the elections :hehe:), so there you go, we know about the source.
From Dawn Editorials
DAWN - Letters; November 29, 2002
IN his article (Nov 17), Ardeshir Cowasjee refers to an e-mail he received in which the writer claims that PPP leader Makhdoom Amin Fahim’s four sisters are married to the Quran, and adds that this is the custom the Waderas have in Sindh by which they refuse to marry off their women in order to keep family wealth intact.
Marrying to the Quran is not a tradition but a social evil. This practice has almost been abolished from Sindh.
Here I would like to add that the history of Sindh shows that the Makhdooms of Hala have always been progressive. They believe in tolerance and social justice. They have never harmed the local people. They do not believe in marriages to the Quran.
This was just a propaganda against a leader of the PPP at the time when he was contesting the election for the office of prime minister. It was a conspiracy of his opponents to destabilize his position in the country’s politics.
I personally advise Mr Cowasjee not to write stories for which he does not have any proof.
MANSOOR ALI SHAHANI
Karachi
Its kind of disappointing that Cowasjee simply “forwarded” the email without verification.
I’m sure you know that in US its the election time when most of the opponents secrets are revealed by participants, right? What would help Makhdoom’s cause is to reveal whether his sisters are married to anyone at all, and if they are married to anyone then their identities would be great.
Now whether they are really married to Quran or their marriage was simply denied to avoid family property split, though two different issues but points to one root cause i.e. greed, selfishness.
Its kind of disappointing that Cowasjee simply "forwarded" the email without verification.
I'm sure you know that in US its the election time when most of the opponents secrets are revealed by participants, right? What would help Makhdoom's cause is to reveal whether his sisters are married to anyone at all, and if they are married to anyone then their identities would be great.
Now whether they are really married to Quran or their marriage was simply denied to avoid family property split, though two different issues but points to one root cause i.e. greed, selfishness.
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Its not the timing I was highlighting, it was the source, i.e. unnamed email. You are right about the timing, Sita White emerged right before the 97 elections too...