Make FATA a separate province: Khattak

Re: Make FATA a separate province: Khattak

it surprises me too. we complain too much that "we are misunderstood by usa/west" and "american are dumb they believe what their govt. want them to believe"

at same time we adopt similar approach to wards problems in pakistan.

I was surprised to read some comments on GS about lal masjid etc

Re: Make FATA a separate province: Khattak

Honestly, many Pakistanis don't have any more knowledge on FATA than any American/Westerner, which is why it's so easy for them to say the things they say.
Coming back to FATA, how can you talking about adding FATA to NWFP, when the residents are being attacked like they are not Pakistanis? A similar comparison would be having the American forces try to merge Anbar with Nineveh.

Lets talk about resolving the conflict in FATA first.

Re: Make FATA a separate province: Khattak

Let's not forget "Tiger" Niazi and the elite of West Pakistan.

Re: Make FATA a separate province: Khattak

What great knowledge of FATA will you impart us with?

Re: Make FATA a separate province: Khattak

Why waste the time on this? Let's not revisit the same situation where you come up with one liners and then run away.

To be fair, at least you made it to the FATA entry point, which is a lot farther than the other so-called experts have done.

Re: Make FATA a separate province: Khattak

Point to the line that is offensive!

Before calling the mods, why not accept the fact that "Truth is sometimes bitter", and "Truth hurts like heck", but it is much better than sweet poison of political correctness.

Re: Make FATA a separate province: Khattak

is surprising that FATA is a part of pakistan yet you guys are busy are busy taking the mickey out of it? no wonder pakhtun nationalists are bitter against pakistan. people we consider educated and enlightened constantly demean the existence of FATA. FATA is a very important part of pakistan - if it was not then i am sure pakistan could have it over to afghanistan anytime with ease.

neither afghanistan or pakistan are independent countries. both are openly ruled and governed by NATO and America. at least in ONE of the countries there is some ACTIVE resistance to foreign control even if it is arab influenced suicide bombers.

i doubt FATA could ever be joined to NWFP. the last thing the power structure in pakistan wants is a further strengthened province.

Re: Make FATA a separate province: Khattak

You keep saying that only you know the great secrets of FATA, yet fail to tell everyone what they are. Sorry, you need to come up with something better.

I sympathize with people of FATA who have had to put up barbaric tribal laws, cruel British era laws, ISI games and now inhuman taliban laws. No doubt they are suffering, question is how to the solve the problem, and that is where the difference of opinion comes.

And don't come here to preach to us about tolerance, we all know what pashtuns say about the rest of us in the comforts of their hujra. That hate is nothing compared to the reactions you see on here.

Re: Make FATA a separate province: Khattak

You keep saying that only you know the great secrets of FATA, yet fail to tell everyone what they are. Sorry, you need to come up with something better.

There are no great secrets of FATA. Just some facts on the ground:

  • The tribal administration has fallen completely in specific agencies like Waziristan. The local maliks are being pressured by Pak. military while attacked by the extremists. The term 'between a rock and a hard place' comes to mind.

  • Pakistan military in it's ground strategy, surrounds towns and conducts battles with extremists (who are on higher elevations), while shelling the civilian population due to their proximity in the cross fire. Exodus to the settled districts is accelerating.

  • Unlike the popular (ignorant) opinion, there is very little support for extremist foriegn elements amongst the civilians. The taliban are not seen as, nor are considered to be "foriegn." In fact there have been many instances of Pakistani military cooperation with the Taliban. The deals include not using or connecting Pakistan with activities in Afghanistan. In exachange, Pak military looks the other way when conducting operations.

  • Paranoid Pakistani soldiers in constant fear for their lives. See the civilian population as potential suicide bombers/mistrust of their colleagues from the area.

Let me be clear: Pakistan will NEVER be able to subdue FATA militarily. The only way FATA could be subdued is by killing every single male inhabitant of the area, and believe me, the Brits tried it. The reason is purely due to the weapons to males ratio in the agencies. I am sure everyone knows the big arms markets of Khyber, but even quieter places in Kurram Agency have a cache of arms that will astound all. Beyond that, these small arms are made by hand using scrap metal, so if you take away the arms they can make more.

Do not ask me for internet sources verifying these things. Either try (just try) to go there yourself or PM me if you know someone in the Pak Military active in the region.

**
I sympathize with people of FATA who have had to put up barbaric tribal laws, cruel British era laws, ISI games and now inhuman taliban laws. No doubt they are suffering, question is how to the solve the problem, and that is where the difference of opinion comes.
**

It is good to see that you recognize the problems. In terms of solutions, you can disagree if you want but we will see what happens in the next few months.

**
And don't come here to preach to us about tolerance, we all know what pashtuns say about the rest of us in the comforts of their hujra. That hate is nothing compared to the reactions you see on here.**

You can't tell me what I can or can not preach after you had made incorrect and infactual statements that were proven false in another thread. I will preach for tolerance because I know many Pakistanis of all provinces are screwed up.

As for the hujra comment, it goes both ways, when we're talking about Pakistanis. Every single province of Pakistan has greivances against each other, however the difference between airing them in a hujra/private space and a PAKISTANI public forum is much different. If we say Pakistan is one country them forum like these should be free of hatred and racism.

I know there are some 'heavy' concepts mentioned here, but ideas like integrating FATA are nice to talk about, much tougher to implement.

Re: Make FATA a separate province: Khattak

So if we are not actively fighting and killing htem (them= U.S., Nato, people who look different in general), it must mean we have been enslaved by them?

It's this kind of thinking that has kept Afghanistan and Tribal areas from integrating with the rest of the world and moving beyond 3rd century. Please, update your respective civilizations and move into the modern era. In this era, we resolve our conflicts in less bloody ways while simultaneously benefiting from each other (for example, U.S./China trade relations while simultaneously competing for influence worldwide).

Re: Make FATA a separate province: Khattak

*is surprising that FATA is a part of pakistan yet you guys are busy are busy taking the mickey out of it? no wonder pakhtun nationalists are bitter against pakistan. people we consider educated and enlightened constantly demean the existence of FATA. FATA is a very important part of pakistan - if it was not then i am sure pakistan could have it over to afghanistan anytime with ease.

*

Precisely. While I am not going to get into the Pakhtun nationalism issue, I can say that the bitterness does increase when people talk about FATA like it is not a part of Pakistan.

**
neither afghanistan or pakistan are independent countries. both are openly ruled and governed by NATO and America. at least in ONE of the countries there is some ACTIVE resistance to foreign control even if it is arab influenced suicide bombers.
**

I think that it is quite clear that the word soverignty does not really exist in either case. I do disagree with you on the arab influence. It has not been good for the region and created this confrontation/mess. The sooner that we can get these foriegners out, the better. These extremists have no interest in the well being of the people nor is suicide bombing Islamically allowed.

**
i doubt FATA could ever be joined to NWFP. the last thing the power structure in pakistan wants is a further strengthened province.**

Bingo! I don't even have to tell you about the NWFP demographics if this happens.

Re: Make FATA a separate province: Khattak

Thanks! I nearly choked on my shwarma reading the last option. :hehe:

Re: Make FATA a separate province: Khattak

I suggest we rename it to FA*R*TA

Re: Make FATA a separate province: Khattak

i think your wrong here. sindh, balochistan and nwfp do not have problems with each other. they have problems with punjab.

why is it that the people who want to implement something in FATA have no connection there? do i get a say what happens in delhi? no i dont! i think the ONLY people who should be bothered about FATA or the people who actually live there.

the people of FATA are misled by the media as well as their own prejudices i joining the rest of NWFP. the unification of lesser provinces is not something the pakistan establishment can tolerate.

the biggest problem is interference - if your not connected to FATA and do not really what to help in any positive manner - maybe staying out and taking care of our own areas would be better? i really feel sorry for the people of FATA because they must have people meddling with them who are ignorant as the one who who started this thread.

its this very ignorant attitude which has kept pakistan back and may destroy it completely. whether you like it or not - when one area wil sink all the rest will be dragged down - just get over your hateful prejudices.

Re: Make FATA a separate province: Khattak

Already know this and I have been pointing this out on the forum for at least a year now.

[QUOTE]
- Pakistan military in it's ground strategy, surrounds towns and conducts battles with extremists (who are on higher elevations), while shelling the civilian population due to their proximity in the cross fire. Exodus to the settled districts is accelerating.

[/QUOTE]

-[FONT=&quot]

Civilians always suffer the most in war. Their tribal lashkars should have been more effective in controlling the talibs.

[QUOTE]

  • Unlike the popular (ignorant) opinion, there is very little support for extremist foriegn elements amongst the civilians. The taliban are not seen as, nor are considered to be "foriegn." In fact there have been many instances of Pakistani military cooperation with the Taliban. The deals include not using or connecting Pakistan with activities in Afghanistan. In exachange, Pak military looks the other way when conducting operations.

[/QUOTE]

Yeah, that’s a bunch of nonsense that no one in this world will buy. Support of terrorists is strongest in the tribal areas, but is also very much strong in rest of Pakistan. Rallies in support of terrorists and so called jihad are a figment of people’s imagination.

[QUOTE]
- Paranoid Pakistani soldiers in constant fear for their lives. See the civilian population as potential suicide bombers/mistrust of their colleagues from the area.
[/QUOTE]

No paranoia here, when even Mullah Nazir, Taliban leader is afraid of suicide bombers trying to kill him.

[QUOTE]

Let me be clear: Pakistan will NEVER be able to subdue FATA militarily. The only way FATA could be subdued is by killing every single male inhabitant of the area, and believe me, the Brits tried it. The reason is purely due to the weapons to males ratio in the agencies. I am sure everyone knows the big arms markets of Khyber, but even quieter places in Kurram Agency have a cache of arms that will astound all. Beyond that, these small arms are made by hand using scrap metal, so if you take away the arms they can make more.
[/QUOTE]

You shouldn't be worried about Pakistan or anyone else trying to subdue FATA. It's the American's that will try to obliterate FATA after any large terrorist attack on them that they think originated from FATA that should be on your mind.

Do not ask me for internet sources verifying these things. Either try (just try) to go there yourself or PM me if you know someone in the Pak Military active in the region.

[QUOTE]
You can't tell me what I can or can not preach after you had made incorrect and infactual statements that were proven false in another thread. I will preach for tolerance because I know many Pakistanis of all provinces are screwed up.
[/QUOTE]

What has been proven false in what thread?

[quote]
As for the hujra comment, it goes both ways, when we're talking about Pakistanis. Every single province of Pakistan has greivances against each other, however the difference between airing them in a hujra/private space and a PAKISTANI public forum is much different. If we say Pakistan is one country them forum like these should be free of hatred and racism.

I know there are some 'heavy' concepts mentioned here, but ideas like integrating FATA are nice to talk about, much tougher to implement.
[/quote]

Reality is often times hard to digest. Time is running out for FATA and even Pakistan. Some of you don't fully understand the consequence of not reigning in terrorists.

Re: Make FATA a separate province: Khattak

So, Pakistan should withdraw from FATA and let them deal with NATO/US on their own? I personally am for this.

Re: Make FATA a separate province: Khattak

well khekheshan obviously you don't have any love for pakistan other than your own area of karachi. thats not a very pakistani attitude you have there but i guess your honest about what you feel.

so which parts do you want to see as a part of pakistan?

without those tribals - karachi would be a dead city. they have greated very vastly to karachi but sadly as they are in labour jobs they have no representation.

its VERY SAD state of affairs when the only discussion there is on the tribal belt is related to negativity. what about all the GOOD these people have done for pakistan. you see these hard-working people toiling and sweating through long roasting days yet this is the THANKS they get.

Re: Make FATA a separate province: Khattak

*Already know this and I have been pointing this out on the forum for at least a year now. *

I have not seen you mention this anywhere, recently.

**
Civilians always suffer the most in war. Their tribal lashkars should have been more effective in controlling the talibs.
**

Did you READ what I said? They will not go against the Taliban. The PAK military has not gone against the Talibs in the past. The fights are against foreign extremists who hardware that has Pak military worried because of all casualties.

Also, "Americans say that Pakistan has not been effective in controlling terrorist activity," to which our FO responded angrily. Do you realize that you are saying the same things? Of course not.

**
Yeah, that’s a bunch of nonsense that no one in this world will buy. Support of terrorists is strongest in the tribal areas, but is also very much strong in rest of Pakistan. Rallies in support of terrorists and so called jihad are a figment of people’s imagination.
**

You know jack because the closest that you have gotten is the border, probably years ago because you were scared to go in even back then. After 9/11 there was support, up until the recent agreements of a few years back. The fact that so much misery has been brought upon the agencies both the civilian population and the leadership has caused it the public opinion to turn the tide. Note I am referring to the foreigners here.

You are most likely sitting in Karachi probably reading some two bit newspaper or tv program. Hell even Frontier Post has pulled back coverage of FATA. Listen no one is asking for your "expertise" on Karachi ok? If that happens, I will gladly defer to you because you will know the facts on the ground. Don't tell me you know this because so and so reason...name names, give me people in FC/Pak Military and then lets talk about who and what you know ok?

**
No paranoia here, when even Mullah Nazir, Taliban leader is afraid of suicide bombers trying to kill him.
**

Looking like E Pakistan more and more eh? It would really be big mistake to treat FATA like occupied territory. But who are we kidding? Some people here consider FATA not part of Pakistan.

**
You shouldn't be worried about Pakistan or anyone else trying to subdue FATA. It's the American's that will try to obliterate FATA after any large terrorist attack on them that they think originated from FATA that should be on your mind.
**

Listen I am worried Americans. Unlike others who exhibit bravado and come up with BS, I don't want Americans involved in FATA or anywhere else in Pakistan. I am not against Pakistani military going into FATA, because it is a part of Pakistan after all. But you don't about how it was done and the toll on civilian life, which causes an uproar in the region.

**
What has been proven false in what thread?
**

You stated that there was NO terrorist/extremist movements in Syria because they had been successfully crushed in the non-violent techniques in FATA thread. I expected you to come back and at least admit that you were wrong after I had completely debunked your assertions using online/internet sources. But you ran away and never came back.

Lost respect for you, chief. If you can't come back and at least admit that you are flat out wrong then I can't spend time discussing politics. In terms of politics there are many people here who just blow hot air/make things up, I don't think you were one of them.

**
Reality is often times hard to digest. Time is running out for FATA and even Pakistan. Some of you don't fully understand the consequence of not reigning in terrorists.**

I am being realist here. Let's see what miracles the Pakistan will perform in FATA. I am sure that this will continue to be a hot topic in the coming months. will restart this thread t that point and we will see who understood the consequences.

Re: Make FATA a separate province: Khattak

I don't want to bring up the hatred in Pakistan even though Keh. mentioned what Pakhtuns say in the hujra etc., because I bring up Karchi and it leads to where.

Until the mods did an excellent job in cleaning up this thread, there were some nasty things said about Pakhtuns. Like I said before, unless people know whats happening on the ground, they probably rely on media sources. There might a few people reading this who are/have family members in the area and thanks to telecommunications, can speak with them.

Re: Make FATA a separate province: Khattak

I don't have any love for Pakistan? I am not the one blowing fellow Pakistanis using suicide bombs. On the one hand you say don't interfere with FATA because they are some kind of special people who are better than other Pakistanis and march shouting death threats to rest of Pakistan.

How about they stop interfering with rest of Pakistan and stop supporting forces who are attacking Pakistani troops and NATO/US troops. If they are too stupid to understand the consequences of their actions or inactions, it will be nobody but their own fault with the US retaliates against them.

Don't they understand that if they have people in their midst who are launching attacks on Afghanistan, it is because they are nominally part of Pakistan which has saved them from massive attack from US. Why should Pakistan waste any more lives on people that want to kill us? Go and ask about their love for their tribe, area, pashtuns over that of Pakistan.