Majlis

Society Religion & Philosophy
21

Thanks, little-human.

And since I cant be asked to learn how to use gupshup audio (i tried :frowning: in truth).. I’ve gone thru the trouble of actually setting up a webpage for the above mentioned majalis ..

These arent necessarily representative of the best I’ve ever heard..these are the ones Im listening to these days, and have downloaded off the net.

Hes not a particularly famous zakir..but these days..im prejudiced against very popular zakirs. they’re usually guilty of spicing things up.

Granted the webpage might not be as cool as certain flash enabled websites I know, but as far as site design and layout goes, its right up there with the best of them.

(They’re all download links..I have no clue as to how to setup streaming :slight_smile:

http://www-scf.usc.edu/~syedmuha/majalis/muntazir.html

regards.

22

Thanks Ravage. Will listen to them.

Btw this majlis was not some sort of a ghar ki basement wali private low cost majlis. The guy has been paid 5 grands to come and speak. I think he is from England. I suppose he is just ill-informed and not learned enough to address gatherings.

23

Nahi maddy it's not so much about Noor than it is about his askewed prioritisation and his giving out wrong information/record of events. Most muslims would not have agreed with his details and interpretations. Such maulvis are truly a waste of time. This was the first majlis I attended so I was rather surprised at what the guy said and how everyone present seemed ok with it saying masha Allah, subhan Allah after every minute or so. I have a long way to go before I can reach your level of indifference.

24

1} first of all, thanks for derailing the thread! 2condly i ain’t the only keen hindi movie follower who posts on religion i think u’ll find there r quite a few of em’ but they haven’t the guts to openly admit it. *

2} allah 1st yes! hazrat mohammed-e-mustapha :saw: yes! then hazrat ali shair-e-khuda i think not matey! have u forgot the chain of the 4 khaleef’s, its hazrat abu bakar sadeeq :razi: 1st , then hazrat umar :razi: 2cond , then hazrat usman-e-affan :razi: 3rd then hazrat ali shair-e-khuda :razi: 4th!

25

Mods. And the new Admin Faisal plz read this thread carefully.

26

[QUOTE]
who gave Prophet Isaa (as) the power to speak when he was a child and everyone says Allah. Then he says raised Prohpet Muhammad(pbuh) without his parents alive and the crowd again said Allah and the maulvi goes... No! It was Abu Talib, it was the house of Ali(ra). He decided to go on further still and talks about how Allah is taking credit for what Abu Talib/ Hazrat Ali(ra) actually did. These were his words...Parvarish ki Abu Talib ne Allah kehta hei meine kiya, Parvarish hui Ali ke ghar Allah kehta hei meine kiya (naozobillah).
[/QUOTE]

I dont know whether the orator was an ingoramus or not. There are many shia mualvis who are more interested in showmanship then preaching but its also possible you misunderstood him. When the prophet (pbuh&hf) was leaving for medinah for hijrat he turned, picked up some dirt and threw it at the quraishis outside his house. In the quran allah says it was HE who threw the sand. Now i wont justify the speaker since I wasnt there. But you should also pause and take a little while to think. Maybe, just maybe, u misunderstaood what he was saying. and he wasnt very good at what he was trying to say.

27

Any more mention of Hollywood/Bollywood/AnyotherWood in this thread will get your whole post deleted. If someone doesn't know how to stick to the topic under discussion, they should learn rather quickly.

Feel free to express your opinion on the topic. Agree, disagree, defend or attack... you have a right to express your opinion on the issue expressed in the first post or in any other post... but just make sure your post keeps focussed on the topic... which is the contents of majalis, and more specifically the example given in FF's first post.

Thanks.

28

FF;

Frankly speaking, I do not understand what you are objecting too.

It is a shia belief that the holy prophet (pbuh) and his holy imams(as) are all from the one noor. We do not need to apologize to you or any sunni for anything.

The holy prophet (pbuh) is the root (foundation) of Islam while the imams (as) are its branches.

The holy prophet (pbuh) has said many a times (references can be provided from Sahih sittahs) - Ali is from me and I'm from Ali. Hussain is from me and I'm from Hussain. Ali has the same faith as I. There are many such sayings.

However, the holy prophet (pbuh) is the FINAL messenger and the mightest of ALL the prophets. The imams are his students. In status, there is no comparison. The holy prophet (buh) is Allah's best creation and a mercy to the world. The imams are sinless, like the prophet (as) as well. In terms of faith, both prophethood and imamat make up ISLAM. You cannot achieve Islam until you accept both these acrticles of faith.

Now, as to his speech on Abu Talib, what he was saying is: Since Abu Talib helped raise Allah's (swt) prophet in Abu Talib's house, Allah (swt) permitted Abu Talib's son, Imam Ali (as) to be born in the Kaaba.

It is a different way of looking at things.

Don't go to majlises with a closed mind. Shia Islam is vibrant and not constricted like the sunni version. This is the religion of Allah (swt) and his prophet (pbuh) as taught by the holy ahl-bait (as).

ws

29

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Gandalf: *
FF;

Frankly speaking, I do not understand what you are objecting too.

It is a shia belief that the holy prophet (pbuh) and his holy imams(as) are all from the one noor. We do not need to apologize to you or any sunni for anything.

The holy prophet (pbuh) is the root (foundation) of Islam while the imams (as) are its branches.

The holy prophet (pbuh) has said many a times (references can be provided from Sahih sittahs) - Ali is from me and I'm from Ali. Hussain is from me and I'm from Hussain. Ali has the same faith as I. There are many such sayings.

However, the holy prophet (pbuh) is the FINAL messenger and the mightest of ALL the prophets. The imams are his students. In status, there is no comparison. The holy prophet (buh) is Allah's best creation and a mercy to the world. The imams are sinless, like the prophet (as) as well. In terms of faith, both prophethood and imamat make up ISLAM. You cannot achieve Islam until you accept both these acrticles of faith.

Now, as to his speech on Abu Talib, what he was saying is: Since Abu Talib helped raise Allah's (swt) prophet in Abu Talib's house, Allah (swt) permitted Abu Talib's son, Imam Ali (as) to be born in the Kaaba.

It is a different way of looking at things.

Don't go to majlises with a closed mind. Shia Islam is vibrant and not constricted like the sunni version. This is the religion of Allah (swt) and his prophet (pbuh) as taught by the holy ahl-bait (as).

ws
[/QUOTE]

Gandalf,

I dont entirely subscribe to the idea that the imams and the prophets were Nuur.

Nor have I found that substantiated in an authentic source. Could you direct me to one if you know it?

regards,

30

Ravage,

Please refer to ziyarat -e-warisa by Imam Jafer al sadiq (as) in regards to our masloom imam Hussain (as):

ZIYARAT-E-WARITHA

O Allah! Send Your blessings on Prophet Muhammed and his family.

In the name of Allah, the Merciful, the Kind
Peace be upon you,

O inheritor of Adam, the chosen one of Allah

Peace be upon you,

O inheritor of Nuh, the prophet of Allah

Peace be upon you,

O inheritor of Ibrahim, the beloved friend of Allah

Peace be upon you,

O inheritor of Moosa, who received direct communication from Allah

Peace be upon you,

O inheritor of Muhammad, the beloved friend of Allah

Peace be upon you,

O inheritor of Ali, the commander of the faithful, and beloved of Allah

Peace be upon you,

O son of Muhammad, the chosen,

Peace be upon you,

O son of Ali, the one accepted by Allah,

Peace be upon you,

O son of Fatimah, leader of women in the world,

Peace be upon you,

O son of Khadijah, the great,

Peace be upon you,

O you, the one who will be avenged by Allah, and O son of the one who will be avenged by Allah.

O unique martyr, who was killed mercilessly.

I bear witness that you established the worship of Allah,

And the poor due,

And enjoined man to do good,

And forbade them for doing wrong,

And obeyed Allah and His messenger,

Until death came to you.

Curse of Allah be upon the people who killed you,

Curse of Allah be upon the people who wronged you,

Curse of Allah be upon the people who felt happy upon hearing about your death,

My master, O Abaa Abdullah!

I bear witness that you were a light from the time of your ancestors,

The stains of ignorance never touched you and the garment of disbelief never did cast its shadow upon you,

I bear witness that truly, you are the righteous imam, virtuous, pious, pure and holy guide and divinely guided.

And I bear witness, that the nine Aimmah who are your descendants are the banners of guidance,

the strong rope and the proof of Allah upon the whole world.

And that I call as my witness, Allah and his angels, Prophets and messengers,

That I have faith in you, and I believe in your resurrection, and I am convinced of the laws of my religion and the results of my actions.

And that my heart surrenders to you, and my affairs are in obedience to your command.

O my Allah, send blessings on Muhammad and on the children of Muhammad.

I send to them a lot of greetings and words of praise.

Peace be upon you, O the messenger of Allah, and may the mercy of Allah be upon you

31

Gandalf,

Thanks. The more compelling meaning of "light" would be in terms of guidance, in my opinion, as opposed to the notion that they were composed of light.

No?

32

sorry double post.

33

#let uz chat# firstly my apologies IF I have derailed the thread especially to FF.

But I did respond to her. FF here is a website where you can listen to some good majlis http://ymaonline.org/ Hasnain Rajabali

Secondly, it was ashoora and I was leaving for the imambargah when I read your FIRST sentence, I have never been so pissed of than I was then on GS :flower1:

You speak with so much certainty! (that they are the most confused people on earth) it’s so :disgust:.

Khair :flower1:

wow seems interesting I will Inshallah listen to them :slight_smile:

34

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ravage: *
Gandalf,

Thanks. The more compelling meaning of "light" would be in terms of guidance, in my opinion, as opposed to the notion that they were composed of light.

No?
[/QUOTE]

Dear Ravage,

In my opinion, being the LIGHT from the time of yr ancestors "i.e before the imam(as) was born) would support that the imam was created from the same holy light as our holy prophet (pbuh). Thus, the imams and prophets are sinless and masoom, even before they were born till their worldy death.

In addition, the sixth imam (as) talks specifically about Imam Hussain being "the guidance" in the next few lines.

The important thing is that the holy prophet (pbuh) and his ahl-bait are the holy personalities, to whom, after Allah (swt), our obedience is wajib.

Whether you believe in a physical light or Light as a metaphor, it is inconsequential.

ws

35

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Gandalf: *

Dear Ravage,

In my opinion, being the LIGHT from the time of yr ancestors "i.e before the imam(as) was born) would support that the imam was created from the same holy light as our holy prophet (pbuh). Thus, the imams and prophets are sinless and masoom, even before they were born till their worldy death.

[/QUOTE]

Im not sure if masumiyat and sinlessness requires the notion of holy light to support itself.. especially when this notion has questionable basis (ziarat warisa itself isnt.. just the conclusions drawn from it that i find hard to digest..)

[QUOTE]

The important thing is that the holy prophet (pbuh) and his ahl-bait are the holy personalities, to whom, after Allah (swt), our obedience is wajib.

Whether you believe in a physical light or Light as a metaphor, it is inconsequential.

ws
[/QUOTE]

then lets agree to disagree but agree :)

36

ravage ravage...

I can't hear anything in your website I tried the 10 and a noha and tried to open in both real player and winamp but it doesn't seem to work.

Any idea?

BTW I just heard kay ahlebait walon kay charay par noor hotee thee.

37

little human,

you will have to download them (right click and save .. then double click when downloaded..).. and run them in real player.

if you click on them real player tries to open it directly.. i think thats whats happening.

im sorry ..but i have no idea how to set streaming up :-\ .

zaroor hoti ho gi little human, lekin khilqat key baray may jab tak koi baat woh khud na batayein, hum kaise samajh lein?

38

This is to funny :smiley:

BS

39

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Gandalf: *
FF;

Frankly speaking, I do not understand what you are objecting too.

It is a shia belief that the holy prophet (pbuh) and his holy imams(as) are all from the one noor. We do not need to apologize to you or any sunni for anything.

The holy prophet (pbuh) is the root (foundation) of Islam while the imams (as) are its branches.

The holy prophet (pbuh) has said many a times (references can be provided from Sahih sittahs) - Ali is from me and I'm from Ali. Hussain is from me and I'm from Hussain. Ali has the same faith as I. There are many such sayings.

However, the holy prophet (pbuh) is the FINAL messenger and the mightest of ALL the prophets. The imams are his students. In status, there is no comparison. The holy prophet (buh) is Allah's best creation and a mercy to the world. The imams are sinless, like the prophet (as) as well. In terms of faith, both prophethood and imamat make up ISLAM. You cannot achieve Islam until you accept both these acrticles of faith.

Now, as to his speech on Abu Talib, what he was saying is: Since Abu Talib helped raise Allah's (swt) prophet in Abu Talib's house, Allah (swt) permitted Abu Talib's son, Imam Ali (as) to be born in the Kaaba.

It is a different way of looking at things.

Don't go to majlises with a closed mind. Shia Islam is vibrant and not constricted like the sunni version. This is the religion of Allah (swt) and his prophet (pbuh) as taught by the holy ahl-bait (as).

ws
[/QUOTE]

There isn;t much space for misunderstanding the statement 'Kiya Abu Talib ne aur ALlah kehta hei meine kiya'. Your interpretation of the statement doesn't justify the statement. Imam's are human and all humans are capable of making mistakes, not necessarily sinful but may err. If Imam's are importnat just because they are the Holy Prophet's (pbuh) students then all his companions learnt from him and thus are his students. I don't see why they arent counted as imams too! The kalima is what defines the basis of Islam to us and that does not mention Imaamat. Is Imaamat mentioned in the Quran anywhere? From what I know, in Islam rule and power are not inherited.

40

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Femme Fatale: *

There isn;t much space for misunderstanding the statement 'Kiya Abu Talib ne aur ALlah kehta hei meine kiya'. Your interpretation of the statement doesn't justify the statement. Imam's are human and all humans are capable of making mistakes, not necessarily sinful but may err. If Imam's are importnat just because they are the Holy Prophet's (pbuh) students then all his companions learnt from him and thus are his students. I don't see why they arent counted as imams too! The kalima is what defines the basis of Islam to us and that does not mention Imaamat. Is Imaamat mentioned in the Quran anywhere? From what I know, in Islam rule and power are not inherited.
[/QUOTE]

someone here knows Quran very well..so u should also know that Allah said in Quran that anything that Prophet (pbuh&up) says is actually from Allah..so Prophet (pbuh&up) does not make things up himself... when Prophet (pbuh&up) said in Ghadir to follow Imam Ali (a.s.) after him..what happend? the fake muslims were more interested in khilafat

also did you bother reading ziyarat-e-warsa by Imam Jaffar Sadiq (a.s.) ? He was the grandson of Imam Hussain (a.s.)..the same Imam Hussain (a.s.) who sacrificed himself for Islam..

dont' even compare the Holy Imams with the sahabas..some sahabas were no doubt great..but when Islam was spreading most of the kafirs just jumped on the bandwagon..they were most interested in khilafat..Imams Have the pure blood of Holy Prophet (pbuh&up)..Ayat Tathir talks bout the purity of these Imams

read my signature as well..i told sabah that i won't use it but it seems that muslims of today don't read their sahi sittah..read it and learn the importance of Prophet's (pbuh&up) family..also pay attention to my first paragraph..i don't have the ayat name but since you know Quran so well you would know where to find the ayat