Mahr Question

Can someone please shed some light on what I am supposed to do and what my rights are? Also, if there are any reliable books one can recommend regarding the topic I would be grateful because I am extremely confused and worried.

I got engaged in Dec 2007 (wedding was delayed a couple times). Before the engagement, my father asked my fiancé to sit down and discuss the matter of mahr with him. My fiancé refused any discussion regarding mahr whatsoever saying that he had relinquished that authority over to his father (my future FIL). Therefore, my father went to my FFIL and they had dialogue regarding mahr. The father’s side of my family always sets the same amount for all the girls to be paid throughout her lifetime (deferred payments) in any form – jewelry, money, property, etc. This has been going on for generations. I believe it is called mahr al-mithl? At first, my fiance’s father was not happy with it but later he reluctantly agreed. My fiancé was sitting there as well. My father would not have agreed to this marriage had this agreement not been made and he made that clear. In addition, he told my fiancé and his family that he had been to weddings before where the mahr had been set beforehand and, come time for the nikkah, the groom decides something else and he did not want this type of scenario to occur. His family laughed it off and assured my father it wouldn’t.

Now, I am a couple weeks away from my wedding. The halls have been paid for, arrangements are complete, and my family from all over the globe have bought plane tickets to attend my wedding. Today my fiancé calls me and says he needs to speak to me regarding the mahr. He tells me that he is not comfortable with what my mahr is set at and says he may have made an error when he relinquished his right to decide on it to his father. He continues to tell me that he would now like to change it to 1/3 of what it is set at and addition wants to add past gifts to that total. I was completely content with what my father set my mahr as. It is a deferred mahr and I do not believe that it is an excessive sum that cannot be paid throughout a life time. I, fact, I have student loans that far exceed the amount the mahr was set at. Besides, not only was he sitting there when the mahr was agreed upon and not protest, nearly 1 ½ years has elapsed since then and our nikkah is right around the corner. I also thought that once the mahr was decided upon that it became binding and couldn’t be changed (or is this only after nikkah it can’t be changed?).

Now I feel pressured. My fiancé is saying if I don’t change the mahr he will never have any respect for my father for having set that amount, and if I cared for him at all and I wanted to marry him I would change it to make him happy. I am worried because my father agreed to the wedding after all his conditions (the mahr, me being allowed to finish my studies, etc) were met. Can my fiancé do this? I feel that maybe him and his parents agreed initially only knowing that they would say they want to change it when time came closer to the marriage and when they felt I was stuck. In fact, he has told me that there is nothing that my parents and I can do if he wants to change the mahr amount because it is now too late for my parents to turn around and cancel the wedding and IF we don’t agree to the amount he wants to give then he will walk away leaving my parents having had already paid for the wedding expenses.

Re: Mahr Question

does he love u that much tht hes prepared to walk away for the sake of the amount of mahr:rolleyes:
think it over girl, srry i cnt give any religious perspective on it

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If you are askinbg the religious opinion then according what i kow, you can demand whatever mehr you like, and marriage will not happen unless the husband agrees to pay it and it will be stated in Nikkah document.

If you want to know social aspects or your options, it is best suited in life1, so i will make a copy of it there.

This is a pure blackmail that your fiance is doing and you should not give in to it, remember that if wedding is called off, your fiance's family will suffer also and they will have tough time finding another match once the word gets out what they did.

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Girly...you have to think....at this point so what if you can blackmail or threaten him to the point of paying your price? Is this a good start to a marriage? I think not. Me? I'd cancel the entire thing, get whatever refunds for wedding expenses and call it a day. Very sad that it all boils down to money but whats done is done, what has been said cannot be unsaid. Do you really want to spend the rest of your life with this guy after this has happened? Is money that important?

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WOW. Im so sorry you are going through this...it amazes me so much when families bicker and fight over mehr. Its not their right to. Plus, once they agreed to it...why backing out now when everything has been said and done?

I really think this is a trick. Your hall is paid for, wedding preps have been taken care of, all the money has been spent, everything is set to go. If they raise the issue now...do you have any choice but to say "YES, PAY ME WHATEVER YOU WANT"? You dont, do you? You have to go through with it no matter what otherwise all that money goes to waste.

I think you should surprise them. Tell them, my family and I have discussed and we find it unacceptable. Thanks but no thanks. I dont think they're going anywhere...they're bluffing and want you to say something you will regre later. Its so unfair to you.

If they also walk away, then I guess it wasnt meant to be. You have to take a stand when you're being bullied like this otherwise it will always be this way.

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He is emotionally blackmailing you, because he knows that you will be far more likely to give in than your father. Mahr is for your protection, and you are not being unreasonable.

If he was behaving like a man, he would have approached your family about this issue, and not you specifically. As someone else mentioned, when word gets out about what he did, his family will have a difficult time finding a rishta, so they will not be in a rush to call it off.

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He is acting like a jerk. Leave him. You'll be much better off! I know your parents have paid for the wedding but that amount if menial compared to a lifetime with a person who has the audacity to blackmail you a few weeks before your wedding.

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If he is saying he won't respect your father, it means he already does NOT respect him.

Honestly, take the mehr situation very serious. You don't want to be screwed over. It is your lawful and religious right to demand whatever you want. What he is doing IS blackmail. Like amana said, mehr is for your protection should you ever seperate or divorce. He is emotionally threatening and blackmailing you.

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he has gone about it totally the wrong way. Doesnt give a nice vibe, if he honestly felt he couldnt produce the amount agreed on he should've taken this upto your father and talked with him. But talking with you and then somewhat threatening, i'd say run. granted that your situation is tough with wedding looming up but in such situations its better to hold your ground.

Ohh hunny you need to slap him around a little to wake him up!!:smilestar:

What is he thinking treating you like that. That is total disrespect, towards your soon to be wife. Is this a love marriage btw? If it is work it out!

If its not, RUNNNNNNNNN!

Run because, this is not going to be the last trick played on you!

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Please try to think with your brain and not get emotionally blackmailed into this crap.

I agree with everyone, if this is an arranged marriage, RUNNNNNNN. If you don't, then be prepared to deal with this crap all your life, this is just the beginning.

This is NOT WORTH IT. Get as many refunds as possible from the wedding preps, but do not ruin your life over these worthless people. Bad people I tell you :(

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The way you're describing this the guy seems like a crook. Imagine, if this is the conidtion before marriage, what sort of blackmails and bain/switch, he will do afterwards?

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I totally agree with everyone here .. this guy sounds like he is too full of himself .. and surely if he and his family had planned to put you under pressure right before the wedding, this is a really low thing to do and this man cannot be trusted.

I had a cousin go through this situation recently. We as a family decided to back out of the rishta. Coz nothing is more important than giving away one's daughter to the right people ... The boy was shocked and immediately came over to my cousins dad and started apologizing , but uncle simply asked him to leave.

Yes it was a huge disappointment for everyone specially the girl who cried like crazy afterwards and thousands of rupees went to waste .. but it was better then being married into a mean and selfish family.

I suggest you talk to you dad about this situation asap ... this needs sorting out between the two families as quickly as possible.

DITTO!!!!!!!!!!! I agree with Sereen and everyone above!

Girly-Girl,

Not a single person who has responded to your thread has said anything in defense of your fiance. In fact, nobody said anything positive about him. When I read your story, the first thing I thought was "OMG, what a jerk! Don't marry him." And I understand that it's easier said than done to call of a wedding. But you have several things to think about here.

  • This is more than just emotional blackmail, he's trying to control you. And if he'll blackmail you regarding something this HUGE........then he'll blackmail and try to control you regarding little issues in your marriage.

  • A woman has the right to make whatever demands in mehr she wants. The guy has to pay it up. If he's threatening to walk out on you because of your basic Islamic right as a woman...........what other issue will he walk out on in the future? Give him an Islamic lesson. Tell him that HE does not get to make changes in mehr.

  • He could have approached your father about this issue. That would be the more mature way to handle this issue. Even if you tried to talk to your dad into changing the mehr..........your dad will not listen and plus he'll be able to figure out that your fiance put you up to this.

  • It was pretty LOW of him to tell you that he'll leave your family with the wedding expenses. It was LOW of him to say that you "can't do anything because the wedding is around the corner". This indicates that he had PLANNED this dirty trick all along. If he had any issues about the mehr, the respectable thing would be to discuss it well in advance before the nikkah. I doubt he would want his OWN SISTER to be treated this way.

I know that canceling the wedding is easier said than done. Even if this guy goes through with Nikkah and pays the full mehr your dad has set........he'll enter this marriage with a HUGE GRUDGE toward YOU **and **YOUR FAMILY. And he'll take out that** GRUDGE** on YOU if you become his wife. So my advice is for you to **TELL YOUR DAD EVERYTHING THAT THIS GUY SAID TO YOU OVER THE PHONE. TELL YOUR DAD SBOUT THE THREAT AND THE BLACKMAILING. **Your parents will be better able to decide how to handle this situation in a way that won't hurt YOUR reputation. Do not try to handle this on your own. This involves your whole family. And having the support of your family will allow them to safeguard your image within the community.

If you do decide to back out (and I agree with most of the posters that you should...if you give in, then this probably won't be the last time he or his family try to emotionally manipulate you and if you don't and somehow get him to pay up, he's going to take it out on you for a long time to come) I think you should put together any and all paperwork you have for the marriage (contract for the marriage hall, receipts, etc.) and speak to an attorney. Preferably someone who is Muslim and is knowledgeable about mahr. I don't know the laws where you are (I'm assuming you're in the states), but sometimes oral contracts (again, I'm making an assumption - it doesn't seem like you got anything in writing when your father and future FIL agreed to the mahr initially...most people don't) will be honored by courts if certain conditions are met. If a party breaches the oral contract (goes back on their word), then the non-breaching party may be entitled to some form of restitution to put the party in the position they were in before the contract was made. That is, you may (again, I don't know what the particulars are so you need to talk to someone who is familiar with the laws of your state) be able to get something back from his side to offset all the expense your family has gone to in paying for this wedding. This is just something to think about. Good luck.

Edit - this is a big maybe. Yeah I know. I'm a broken record. But I don't want you to get your hopes up in light of all the other emotional turmoil you're doubtless going through. So once you and your family decide your course of action, take a breath, get all your paperwork together and talk to someone to find out if this is even possible. I hope, for your sake, that it is.

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^ Ooooh that is pure evil (i.e., a wonderful revenge). hit em where it hurts most, wallet. :)

Evil? Yes. But it is rightly deserved and if the laws of her state entitle her to this type of action, I say she should go for it. She and her family deserve to be compensated.

And even more importantly, since news like this travels so fast, it will send a message to guys and their families that girls aren't going to take it anymore. I'm sick to death of hearing these stories where everything's all set and then some greedy guttersnipe and/or his greedy family are trying to get out of their Islamic responsibility by using such loathsome tactics.

I know it's not the done thing, but Muslim families seriously need to start putting this stuff in writing with signatures. There's nothing wrong with doing this...I mean when you look at it from a purely technical perspective, Islamic marriage is contractual, not sacramental. So why not take advantage of that fact and GET EVERYTHING IN WRITING!!!

Sorry. I feel passionately about this. I can't tell you how many stories like this I hear on an almost daily basis. It makes me angry to no end.

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^ Yes yes, i agree with you totally. Its' a cold and calculating move, and they (larkay walay) rightfully deserve to be treated like that.

i thought the guy only pays the mehr if and when he is leaving her and not at the time of the marriage..??..

No, once the mehr is paid.......it's paid......whether it is before marriage, during the marriage, or at the time of divorce. It only needs to be paid once. I've heard that it's recommended that mehr be paid before consummation of marriage. So, let's say that a husband pays the wife her mehr during the time of marriage.................if the guy leaves her, he doesn't need to "re" pay the mehr. It has already been paid. That's what I've been told. Also, my understanding is that if the woman is the one seeking the divorce called Khula, the woman has to forgo her mehr.

Here are some interesting points about Haq Mehr. There are 2 main ways of presenting haq mehr to the bride.

1) **The **first way is to hand it over in full at the time of marriage, in which case it is known as mahr mu'ajjal, or 'promptly given mahr'. (Notice the ' . The word is derived from 'ajilah, meaning 'without delay'. This was the accepted practice during the time of the Prophet, and the amount fixed was generally quite minimal.

2) The second way of presenting mahr is to defer it, to hand it over to the bride after a certain period of time, the duration of which must be specified, fixed by the man and agreed by the wife. This has to be settled, with witnesses, at the time of the marriage. This form of mahr is known as mahr muwajjal. (the word implies 'in a period of time').

The five major schools of Islamic jurisprudence all agree that delay in handing over the mahr, whether in full or in part, is lawful provided that the fixed period for payment is not indefinite.

This method (second one) should never be used as an excuse to willfully postpone the payment. A definite date should always be fixed, witnessed, and adhered to. It should certainly not be left 'hanging' in case the marriage breaks down and the couple come to consider a divorce - because of the inevitable emotions, bitterness, arguments, hostilities and financial problems involved at that time.

Who owns the mahr? Can it be refused?
It is owned **solely **by the wife. The husband is not allowed to refuse to pay his wife a proper mahr or faridah. The settling of the payment is obligatory.

The **Shafi 'I school **rules that a wife may refuse to consummate the marriage if the husband agreed to pay the mahr immediately, but did not do so. She may have the marriage annulled.

***************** Although there is no ceiling on the amount of mehr, it is **unIslamic to demand an unreasonable amount which the guy will find difficult to pay............and the two families needs to NEGOTIATE and settle upon an amount they are both comfortable with. The **settling **of the mehr is obligatory.

While women have the upper hand in deciding how much mehr to demand....One recorded hadith suggests that *'the best woman is the one whose mahr is the easiest to pay.' *(al-Haythami, Kitab an-Nikah 4:281).