Madrassahs - What should be done with them?

**Contradictions to deal with **

By Irfan Husain

I WAS staying with old Turkish friends in their house on the Aegean sea when we learned about the lethal blast in a Quetta courtroom. My hostess was very concerned as she has been to Pakistan many times, and has visited the Balochistan capital as well.

But hardened as we Pakistanis have become to such daily horrors, I must confess that apart from making some perfunctory remarks, I was unable to muster much shock and horror. The truth is that over the years, terrorism has taken a heavy toll not just on human lives, but on our ability to share the suffering of the survivors.

The mind can only react to a certain amount of violence; after a limit has been reached, it becomes numb to yet more news of death and disaster. Everybody from Musharraf downwards goes through the motions, and we are promised that the perpetrators of the latest carnage will be caught and punished. But within a couple of days, it is business as usual until the next atrocity.

After two decades of ethnic and sectarian terror, we now face the prospect of endless political terrorism in which officials and state institutions are targeted for conventional and suicide bombing. Needless to say, thousands of innocent lives are being lost in this campaign. And given the issues involved, as well as the uncompromising nature of the foe, it is hard to see any light at the end of this particular tunnel.

What drives a person to strap a bomb to his waist and kill himself, as well as strangers who have not harmed him in any way? Where foreign occupation is concerned, and there are few weapons available to confront the enemy, it is understandable when the oppressed take up this extreme means of resistance. But even here, it is not justifiable to target innocent civilians.

While discussing Islamic extremism in the West, Musharraf and other Muslim leaders have rightly emphasised the need to resolve issues like Palestine, Kashmir and Chechnya to deprive the terrorists of their appeal. But this does not explain the growing phenomenon of Muslim-on-Muslim killings. How does the bomb blast in Quetta or the daily car bombs in Baghdad solve anything? And why is the Islamic world silent in the face of this violence?

A couple of years ago, a Karachi monthly magazine ran a cover story on the terrorism in Kashmir. One fighter was asked what he would do if a political resolution was found for the disputed valley. Revealingly, he replied that he would not lay down his gun, but turn it on the Pakistani leadership, with the aim of installing an Islamic government there.

This is the crux of the entire problem. The violence we are experiencing today is entirely local, entirely home-grown. The young killers hitting targets across the country are neither fighting for a homeland, and nor are they seeking to evict a foreign occupier. They want nothing less than to seize power, and to turn Pakistan into their version of the ideal Islamic state. In their incoherent, ill-formed vision, this would include restoring the caliphate, as well as doing away with all western influence and elements of modernity, except, perhaps, the Kalashnikov and the Internet.

How, you may ask, has it come to this? The answer does not lie far from anybody living in Pakistan. Today, well over 20,000 madressahs are imparting religious instruction (and precious little else) to millions of children across Pakistan. And while most of them do not actively encourage violent revolution, they do effectively brainwash their students into rejecting reason and independent thinking.

Despite repeated promises from Musharraf, these seminaries continue to teach their narrow syllabus. Religious parties have ignored the government’s attempts to monitor the source of their financing, as well as the subjects they teach. A certain number of madressahs are indoctrinating young minds in the way of jihad, as well as filling them with hatred for everything western. Even worse, each sect runs seminaries that teach students that only their version of the faith will lead them to salvation, and that other Muslims are not true believers.

If readers think I am overstating my case, they only have to look to Lal Masjid in Islamabad, the scene of the stand-off between the government and a group of young female madressah students. Despite the provocation offered by these girls who occupied a children’s library while armed with batons the government beat a hasty retreat. More chilling than the actions of these students was their words: they openly stated that they saw their role as being mothers and wives of suicide bombers.

Clearly, the madressah teaching these girls should be shut down, and the staff tried for brainwashing their wards. I shudder to think of the kind of people who send their children to such places. But surely, the government has a role in ensuring that young Pakistanis are not taught noxious matter that harms them and the state.

Instead of regulating and monitoring schools established in the country, the government gives more and more space to these hate-mongers. Incidents like the Quetta suicide bombing are the inevitable outcome of the state’s inability to act. This is especially so when self-styled politicians like Ijazul Haq, the dead dictator’s son, hobnob with the mullahs in charge of Lal Masjid openly, and plead their cause. Their cause being, of course, the illegal occupation of state land.

But perhaps the contradictions that paralyse Musharraf are hard-wired into Pakistan’s very existence. As religious parties point out, not entirely inaccurately, if Pakistan was to be a secular state, why was India partitioned? Clearly, they insist, Mr Jinnah had desired an Islamic state, and therefore it follows that the law of the land should be the Shariat, and the constitution ought to be the Quran.

You can quote from any speech of Jinnah’s you like, but the fact of the matter is that over time, the religious right has moved its agenda forward, while rationalists have been marginalised. Leaders like Musharraf want it both ways: to wield power with the support of the mullahs, while showing a modern face to the rest of the world.

However, as he might discover soon, straddling the fence is uncomfortable work. Meanwhile, the mayhem will go on, as the graduates of madressahs take their shortcut to the houri-filled paradise of their fevered imagination.


I think this man has some point. The deeni education should be imparted but on a broad curicullum and alongwith other branches of knowledge but madrassahs whose syllabus is not known and teachers are of dubious standing should be closed.

I think we can close all first and then let them reopen after a thorough scrutiny

P.S: Mod can you please correct the title from wbat to what.

Re: Madrassahs-Wbat should be done with them

Its very easy to blame Madrassahs for everything.

All the troubles that we have now are bcoz of failings of governments educational system.

Who puts their children into Madrassahs? People who cud not afford to pay school fee and food for their kids. Thousands of poor kids got free education (abillity to read&write) thru these Madrassahs along with free boarding and food. Had these kids been provided free food & boarding by government they would not have turned up in Madrassahs.

Shutting down Madrassahs is not going to solve the problem or it will create another one. That of more children on street& more crime. Do u want that?

While Mushy & corrupt politicians&beurocrats are just gonna take steps to sweep trash under the rug, we as people can do something about it. By involving ourselves in management of these Madrassahs. Madrassahs run on charity. Give them financial support and get into their boards and bring about change in curriculum and attitude.

Re: Madrassahs-Wbat should be done with them

I liked article, has got some good points but Icon has given a valid point as well.

Icon - I thought that the govenment schools were charging very less money almost nothing. I don't know how much they charge now. But this will bring another question that do we have enough government school to cover all these remote areas, which are the main target for recruits for these so-called madrassahs.

Re: Madrassahs-Wbat should be done with them

Yeah that's the source of the problem: the lack of availability of proper free public schooling. The writer of this article skips that part of the picture. I wonder how the writer would feel sending his kids to a school that is giving free admission to street riff raff in karachi? Of course, most Pakistanis would object. Then where else do you send the kids?

Add that to the fact most Pakistanis don't know Islam very well, they wouldn't know if the shariat and sunnah being taught in these madrassahs is even correct. Just because someone publishes a book about Islam doesn't mean its even really about Islam.

Re: Madrassahs-Wbat should be done with them

The number of students vs. the number of gov't schools - doesn't match. They need to open more gov't schools. And they need to provide some regulation of employment so these people have a fair chance at employment. If you haven't gone to private school in Pakistan, it can be tough getting a decent job.

Re: Madrassahs-Wbat should be done with them

Its not just lack of availability, there are people who do not want to send their kids to regular schools.

and while schools can be free or almost free, they dont provide free lodging/boarding like the madrassas do.

It is really not a question of if you build it they will come. There is no doubt that more schools are needed..none. But that has to be coupled with

educating ppl that they can send their kids to regular schools, or
for the kids who have to work..you have to raise their families out of poverty and/or provide evening education,

you have to provide vocational education so these students can become wage earners quicker, and

ppl have to be taught about family planning.

Unless efforts are made on all fronts, we are only solving the symptoms and not the root causes.

Re: Madrassahs-Wbat should be done with them

^absolutely. scholarships to private/govt schools, and/or free government education would help with some of those issues.

But that's the thing. Pakistan gets lots of aid and loans, etc. But how much of it is being invested in education. Next to zero. And its partially because of this arrogant attitude that only the rich have a right to education.

Re: Madrassahs-Wbat should be done with them

PCG

some of the aid and loans are earmarked for specific purposes and can not be diverted to other projects.

There is another type of aid which looks good on paper and well it does have an impact but it is something alone the lies of

we give you $100million, you need to buy $100 million worth of our agricultural products (in some cases at hiked prices)

So one has to understand that al loand and aid is not the same and the ability for any govt to redirect it is limited. as they say beggers cant be choosers.

aside from that I agree that our expenditure on education is limited. No only that people's perspectives are skewed also, and opportunity is limited.

You and I may sit here and think he education for the sake of education is good, but can somene who has done metric (10th grade) or inter (12th grade) really get a good job. what is the opportunity cost of him staying in school all these years versus becoming an apperentice at a body shop or some factory?

we need more vocational education, coupled with some general education, social sciences, sciences, math etc. we have to rethink stuff, does a kid have to be in class 6 hours a day, could it be less, in the eveings, or a couple evenings a week, a different approach. It may sund elitist but give these kids basic educationa dn then skills that they can put to use sooner rather than later.

So its not just some arrogant attitude that only the rich have the right to education, while that is a factor. Poor ppl dont value education in many cases because it has future returns, and not immediate..yet they have immediate needs..often because of the number of mouths to feed.

You have a vicious circle of lack of opportunity and fair wages, illiteracy and lack of family planning, and voila.. u have what u have.

madrissas that provide room and board are actualy a godsend to some of these parents. pakistan has a problem with bonded labour also, I am not too familiar with it but basically parents sell their children in service of some factory, farm, mill etc... the employer takes care of the kids room and board..so parents now dont have an expense and then the employer gives them some money upfront and then the meager wages the child earns from this arrangement go to his parents.

compared to that for some of these parents a madrissa is a great deal. same for kids, but then u get other problems if the madrissa is being funded by militant groups.

Re: Madrassahs-Wbat should be done with them

Fraudia ji, you lost the plot or what. :)

Last I heard family planning was frowned upon in Islam.

Re: Madrassahs-Wbat should be done with them

Censured group

Hazrat Mufti Muhammad Shafi (rahimahullahu ta`ala), sometimes wittily used to say 'Maulvi is a censured group’.

Why did Hazrat Mufti Sahib termed Maulvi a censured group, we shall later discuss the reasons. Let us know at first who was the founder of this Malaamti (censured) group? When did it come to existence? What were its distinctive teachings and why was it called censured or much criticized?

History shows that first of all Malaamti was a name given to Muslim Sufis born at Neeshapur in the second half of the 3rd century and beginning of the 4th century after Hijra. Two most notable names among them are Sheikh Abu Hafs Haddaad and Sheikh Hamdoon Qassaar. Before them there was not any organized group of Malaamtiya in Neeshapur. However similar beliefs were found about other sufies too.

Malaamtiya has been derived from the world ‘Malam’ or ‘Malamta’ that means to denounce, censure or reprehend’. But generally this word is used in a sense of self-denouncing or willing to be denounced by other people. This view might be taken from the verses in Surah Maida in which Allah Ta`ala described the signs of his particular people. Two of the signs are: “They wage jihad in the way of Allah and do not care for any criticism”

Reprehension or censure is the integral part of the teachings of this group. They consider ‘censure’ essential for their spiritual chastity. Three kinds of censure are described.

  1. Those people who censure themselves.

  2. Those who deliberately talk such things that other people censure them for.

  3. Those who censure the world and people. But the third sense is against the aim and spirit of Malaamtiya group. Thus the first two meanings should be kept in mind.

A Malaamti considers ‘censure’ a good thing because:

  1. It is an effective way to overcome one’s insurgent inner-self.

  2. He wants that his real condition whether it is good or bad be hidden from people and known only to Allah, with Whom he wants to make real contact. A Malaamati person is claimant of nothing; Neither of knowledge and deeds, nor of piety, experience, observance and reactions. People malign him but he is happy in the heart of hearts that this scolding and censure is rectifying his actions, he is getting rid of conceit and pride thus gaining promixity to Allah. In the eyes of a Malaamity, the most important thing is Allah’s pleasure and wrath. He determines his destination or way of life not keeping in view the wishes of worldly people but Allah’s pleasure and wrath. When he hears about the annoyance of people and being condemned by them, he replies with great enthusiasm and passion.

Be all the world angry with me, I care not The approval of my Lord is all that I seek What to say about the people, they never become happy with anyone. Insane are those who determine their way of life and destination keeping in view the wishes and comments of people. These people are in a habit of finding faults with others and especially in the case of Maulvi they do not like to spare him on any account.

Hazrat Sayyed `Ataullah Shah Bukhari had cured one such lawyer. When he questioned Shah Sahib, “You, Maulvis are expert in trumping up elucidation. Tell me any interpretation that a man can eat and drink without causing harm to his saum (fast). The great orator of Asia replied, “It is quite easy. Ask anyone to strike your head with his shoe and then swallow your anger, it will not break your fast. (Note: For overcoming ones anger, the word we used idiomatically in Urdu is ‘peena’ which means ‘to drink’, as he said.

Hazrat Mufti Shafi had termed Maulvi a ‘censured group’ in the same sense that whatever a Maulvi does, people find out one or the other point of objection in their action. Thus Mufti Sahib’s spiritual successor and his son Maulana Taqi Usmani has explained the saying of his father: “If Maulvi is leading a secluded life, reciting ‘Allah’, ‘Allah’, delivering lessons of ‘Qaalallah and Qaal-ur-Rasool (what Allah and his Prophet said) then their objection is that this Maulvi is totally unaware of the world that has advanced quite a lot. What a progress the world has made in every field! The Americans have landed on moon! But the Maulvis do not bother to come out of their shell! The same out-moded talks, offer prayers! keep fast! keep your shalwar above your ankles, grow beards in size, do not watch TV, make your women observe hijab (viel)…on the other hand, they say, look at the prevailing conditions of the country. The poor are dying of starvation, common people are victims of oppression and injustices, the rulers have become dictators but despite all this Maulvi is sitting in his chamber.

On hearing such talks, if the Maulvi comes out of his closet, raise a voice of Haq (truth) before the rulers, endeavours to rectify political system, establishes a welfare organization for the impecunious Muslims, criticises USA and Russia for their overt hooliganism, then the same people raise objection, ‘What are these Maulvis up for? They ought not to do this. They should only lead prayers in mosques, teach in madaris or recite the name of Allah while sitting any secluded place. Why do they interfere in state affairs, national and international politics.

If the Maulvi is financially weak due to lack of resources and living hand to mouth than these people say, “What a hell of life it is! They have no proper house, no proper dress to wear, no vehicle even a motorcycle, no bank balance. These impecunious people can do nothing but maligning. They are living on our leftovers. That is why we do not make our children Maulvi. Where would they go after their graduating from madrasah? Where would they get bread to eat? Who would allow their daughters to marry the Maulvis?”

If Allah Almighty has blessed some Maulvi with prosperity, even then the same people do not spare him. They utter immediately, “What sort of these Maulvis are! Do they really deserve to be called Maulvi and to be respected while they move about in cars, wear precious clothes, live in splendid, luxurious houses. On the other hand the condition of the true lovers of Allah is that they eat meal of one time and look towards the door of mosque for the other time.”
Maulvis were subjected to criticism when they were away from schools and colleges, and now when they began establishing schools and colleges under their supervision, they are still maligned. If the Maulvi opposed drawing and publishing pictures and helplessly read newspapers containing pictures, they were ridiculed. Now when they have geared up to publish their own newspaper free of pictures of living beings, it is again unbearable for this sort of people…O fortunate members of censured, maligned group! When these western-minded people are on no account ready to spare you from poisonous spears of their tongues, then is it not appropriate to neglect them at all, becoming an example of the verse in Surah Maida.

“They wage jihad in the way of Allah and do not care for any criticism.”

Maulana Muhammed Aslam Shaikupuri.%between%

Re: Madrassahs-Wbat should be done with them

[quote=khanbabax]
Censured group

Hazrat Mufti Muhammad Shafi
Two biggest lier and Munafiq of muslim umma these 2 father and son r the real enemy of muslim umma.see their characters they feel tht they r most loveable human of allah.in the name of islam they hve splited the nation of umaat e muhammad.

Re: Madrassahs-Wbat should be done with them

Khan - Nobody said all of them are bad, it's just that I don't see them.

Re: Madrassahs-Wbat should be done with them

Amazing...Just before 2001 these same Madrassahs created and provided no problems at all...In fact, these same Madrassahs were creating the Mujahideen who fought the Russians and made us all proud of being Muslims...

But now these same Madrassahs are our bane and instead of now creating Mujahideen, are now creating terrorists who make us feel ashamed of being Muslims...

Hmmm, wonder what happened?

Re: Madrassahs-Wbat should be done with them

forget about terrorists lajawab. I agree its ridiculous to think that all madrassas are some militant factory. but some are, and have ben, whether they created pawns used in one place or another, by one entity or another.

The graduates of such madaris have been involved in the sectarian violence in the country and there was a lot of hoopla about it in the 90s. those ppl were hailed by those who had a sectarian side to them and loathed by others.

So that is one problem to solve.

But I am looking beyond that. Are madaris a good alternative to schooling,.. is schooling as it is set up today even of value to the poorest of ppl. what ca be done to give them a better education whether its a school or madrissa.

Re: Madrassahs-Wbat should be done with them

but lajjo couldnt the argument be turned around, when we were fighting the Russians the same americans were our allies providing material support against the Godless communists, after that they became the evil jew controlled empire?

it was a marriage of convenience.

Re: Madrassahs-Wbat should be done with them

Even then it was a Jew controlled empire as it is now and everyone knew it…It was fighting a proxy war against an adversary it couldn’t face…Same during Iraq-Iran war…

The proxies had to be portrayed in the media as holy freedom fighters so sympathy and support can be focused on them…We Muslims became fiercely proud of our noble Mujahideen…

Now, those same people have to be portrayed in the media as despotic terrorists so that hatred and animosity can be focused on them…We Muslims have become depressingly shameful of our hated terrorists…

Almost everyone can be manipulated to agree with you…All you need is a little power of suggestion…

Re: Madrassahs-Wbat should be done with them

3 ‘would-be attackers’ die in explosion

By Shakeel Ahmad and Anwar Ali Dawn 25 Feb 2007

MULTAN/SAHIWAL, Feb 24: Three people died when the explosives they were carrying on a bicycle exploded accidentally in Chichawatni, Sahiwal district, on Saturday morning.

Police believed that Adeel, Mohammad Akhtar and Maqsood were going to plant the explosives or to carry out a suicide bombing during the Qul of slain SHO Rana Mohammad Saeed where senior police officials were scheduled to arrive. The device went off when the bicycle hit a road bump near a cattle market. Adeel and Maqsood died on the spot and Akhtar died in the Chichawatni Civil Hospital.

Adeel and Akhtar were students of the Madarssa Azizul Aloom and Maqsood belonged to the banned Lashkar-i-Jhangvi. The three were aged between 22 and 30 years.

Maqsood’s head was separated from his body. His identity was confirmed by his mother in the evening.

Police believed that the bombers’ prime target was Sahiwal police chief Syed Javed Hussain Shah, who during his posting in Vehari had killed banned Lashkar-i-Jhangvi chief Riaz Basra in an encounter.

Following the explosion, the Chichawatni police arrested five teachers and 40 students of the seminary. Police also took into custody Mukhtaran, the mother of Maqsood. His father, Farooq, is wanted by police in sectarian terrorism and is still at large.

Maqsood was recently released from jail after undergoing a seven-year imprisonment under terrorism charges.

The police official Saeed, whose Qul was held on Saturday, had been kidnapped and his body had been found in a canal in Burewala on Feb 21. Posted in the Khanewal Sadar police station, Saeed had reportedly been kidnapped from Arifwala in the Pakpattan district. During his posting in Multan and then in Khanewal, he had arrested a number of sectarian terrorists.


If we make a database, so many madrassah graduates will be implicated. I think to reply back in same coin. Like Taliban closed all girls schools and put women indoors that after sometime once situation of fahashee will improve, we will open them, we should close them and open them after thourough scrutiny.

Another option would be to take madrassah management in government control, put all teachers on payroll, forcibly transfer them across in madrassahs and if they refuse, fire them. Put ulemas of multiple faiths under one roof and you will see that students will develop a broader vision. Also put some science and social studies subjects. Government will have to put its foot down sooner or they will destroy every thing.

Remember, deeni education is good but it should be for your personal knowledge and not for spending your livelihood. Train them in all fields like a proper university so that they have some skill to earn money. otherwise they will naturally be frustrated and they will use the only skill they have i.e. bigotry and jihad

Re: Madrassahs-Wbat should be done with them

whatever happened to anti-obl? man he was funny, i hope he makes a grand entry into this thread and gives us his take on his 'mad-house-rassahs'...

Re: Madrassahs-Wbat should be done with them

who was anti obl?

Re: Madrassahs-Wbat should be done with them

A saint.. admin hazraat sey darkhawast hai us ka ban lift kiya jaye! sorry for derailing this thread though