The proxies had to be portrayed in the media as holy freedom fighters so sympathy and support can be focused on them...We Muslims became fiercely proud of our noble Mujahideen...
Now, those same people have to be portrayed in the media as despotic terrorists so that hatred and animosity can be focused on them...We Muslims have become depressingly shameful of our hated terrorists...
Almost everyone can be manipulated to agree with you...All you need is a little power of suggestion...
yes what ever CNN and BBC says these people say "YES SIR you are 100% correct , muslim are terrorist and madrassah are traning camps"
musharaf and army killing people in balochistan
no one says musharf and army are terrorist
real terrorist are these people
see these have guns
when they are kicked by indian army
they come in to streets of pakistan
and capture the government with the help of guns
this means the pak army and mushraf is the real terrorist
and every army cantt and office is the terrorist camp
real terrorist are these people
see these have guns
when they are kicked by indian army
they come in to streets of pakistan
and capture the government with the help of guns
this means the pak army and mushraf is the real terrorist
and every army cantt and office is the terrorist camp
I m agree with u.u know usman Goverments landlords and ullema and Mashaikh both support each others they all r terrorist
Ignoring the rest of the yip yap in that post, i want to just as a simple question here.
is being american and muslim or beuing british and muslim mutually exclusive? yes the people you named are not muslim, but a logical statement would be (christian not muslim)
btw- there is no proof that Musharraf is qadyani, and unless you have proof, this is slander, which is not only a no-no from a secular laws perspective but even in the religious guidance this is something that is frowned upon. I though I would let you know, you know with you being a good muslim kid and all.
my typo, I meant there is no proof that he is qadyani. I have edited it.
come on Anwaar, you are a good msulim kid, tell me, can one go and start sayng so and so is qadyani, so and so is kaffir without any real proof?
I am intrigued that you read this thread and decided to pick on my typo, but not on the error of the post I was addressing. is it not right to correct someone if they are making a mistake. Or are you just afraid to do so.
Anwaar, right so if there is no proof of him being qadiyani, from an Islamic perspective is it allowed for someone to go and claim that he is Qadiyani? and if that is so, why would supposedly religious people say that, and why would other people with some knowledge of religion not correct them? Is it because if we dont liek Musharraf than its okay whatever someone wants to say?
anyways coming back to the topic. I have written about it bfore too but people are completely offbase when they think all madrassas are the same.
the reforms of trying to provide better education and skills and all are logical. also some sort of regulation and standards body to check on curriculum, teacher qualifications, and inspections etc is needed.
so its not that as a whole madrassas dont need a change, but a bigger reason for that change is to provide better education and opportunity to the kids and not prevention of militancy, because militancy is not a characteristic of teh students of the overwhelming majority of madrassas.
I have removed one of your posts from this thread. While we generally provide a forum for you to express your opinion, but your freedom of speech ends where you start encouraging others to kill other people. However, as you will notice baseless rumor mongering and wild (true & untrue) accusations still appear to be perfectly acceptable around here.
I think there are some very good points in this thread. However Madrassahs are but one of the tools used in our country to dispense education. We cannot blame everything on Madrassahs however a lot of religious fanaticism and self-governed religious police attitudes can be attributed to these madrassah products. I think those who wish to follow a religious track of education should have an option to do so in the regular school environment. However poverty is a driving factor in many cases to the success of madrassahs. Overall Pakistan needs to allocate more budget for education and increase the capacity and quality of its regular schools thereby replacing and closing madrassahs. Students in madrassahs need to be integrated not shunned.
The proxies had to be portrayed in the media as holy freedom fighters so sympathy and support can be focused on them...We Muslims became fiercely proud of our noble Mujahideen...
...
so we muslims became proud of people who were essentially mercenaries of the CIA ??
Although it has to be said that the madrassahs have done a splendid job in providing education to the children of the poor
and the western educated "elite" who so easily put the blame on the madrassahs need to take more responsibility for the present situation in the country
The word "madrassah" is such a noble word, which has now been so dragged into mud by western media that no body dares use it in a positive way any more. Which is a shame, really.
Anyway, I am pretty sure there are countless madrassahs all over Pakistan that are engaged in good and worthy dissipation of knowledge about Islam to our under-privileged sections of society. But, without doubt, there are many madrassahs who have more nefarious ambitions and train their students in hatred, bigotry and violence. Unfortunately due to tremendous differences of opinion in Islamic societies (on pretty much any given topic) and very low threshold for disagreement, we tend to paint all madrassahs in an unfavorable light and are likely to treat them all with the same stick.
real terrorist are these people
see these have guns
when they are kicked by indian army
they come in to streets of pakistan
and capture the government with the help of guns
this means the pak army and mushraf is the real terrorist
and every army cantt and office is the terrorist camp
I am sorry to say that if you are a Pakistani, then you should be kicked on your butt and thrown out to Afghanistan where you can implement your brand of Islam.
Having guns mean a person is terrorist? It shows your mental calibre, whereas you declare yourself to be a PhD student. PhD in idiotness.
Who is destroying oil fields, gas pipe lines, killing people in courts in Balochistan. If they stop killing those idiots and you will have to run to nearest LPG shop, then you will realize how difficult and how tough is the job of peace enforcement. You never had to live on the tops of siachin. Your **** would not have come out in that cold and would have run down crying mamma mamma.
I do not say that army is not committing wrong things or not led by idiots, but have a heart before declaring every thing under the sun as terrorist, Qadyani and Pervaizi.
hahahaha
we are here , because we are pakistani
you people want to became american slave , go to america
are you from army , if not then why are you flamming
[quote]
Having guns mean a person is terrorist? It shows your mental calibre, whereas you declare yourself to be a PhD student. PhD in idiotness.
[/quote]
go and check out the meaning of terrorist
terrorist means who create terror in the minds of others
and now come to pakistan
see every citizen is terrorized by these army men
just check out last day
roads were block for more then 30 min because these terrorist were going from there or you can say biggest terrorist boss was going throw
civilian have no rights, , ambolance were stopped, people were dying , but they can't go because the badsha salamat was going
who dam care about Pakistani people
just look at his master bush
[quote]
Who is destroying oil fields, gas pipe lines, killing people in courts in Balochistan.
[/quote]
do you have prove that this is done by muslims and not done by
agencies and mushraf
if he can sell muslim to america to get money only (see his book )
nothing can be said that in order to degrade muslim he might doing all these things
and now people all thinking like this way , that all this is doing by musharaf to get more money and support by americans
[quote]
If they stop killing those idiots and you will have to run to nearest LPG shop, then you will realize how difficult and how tough is the job of peace enforcement.
[/quote]
what you say about selling of people to america , kiddnapping of people and never bringing them to court
what will you say
if people protest for their parents and childrens
what would you call to this army , kicking people , making them clothless and hitting with sticks
what will you say
[quote]
You never had to live on the tops of siachin.
[/quote]
yes army is paid to live there , not to live in president house
give the 70% of GDP to civilians they will also live there , no need of this expensive army
[quote]
Your **** would not have come out in that cold and would have run down crying mamma mamma.
[/quote]
same happen with the army , when kicked by indian , they ran by saying mamma mamma and kidnap pakistan
[quote]
I do not say that army is not committing wrong things or not led by idiots, but have a heart before declaring every thing under the sun as terrorist, Qadyani and Pervaizi.
[/quote]
thanx God you admit
similarly every Madrassah is not to be blammed
you people have double standard
on one side , if any wrong is done by any of madrassah , you start blamming every madrassah should be shut down
but if any of the army person do some thing wrong , you say its was on the individual basis
why don't you say shut down every army office
Who puts their children into Madrassahs? People who cud not afford to pay school fee and food for their kids. Thousands of poor kids got free education (abillity to read&write) thru these Madrassahs along with free boarding and food. Had these kids been provided free food & boarding by government they would not have turned up in Madrassahs.
.
Who is paying for these madrisas? The same money could be spent for a normal education????
No proof will work in your case. I am sorry only Allah will show you the proof.
Indian Army is no better than Pakistan Army so that is why they never kicked their butts, See the whole escalation drama. Indians stayed on the border for one year and could not dare attack. Pakistan won the war without fighting like in brasstacks. They declared they will attack and could not muster up courage to do so.
I have posted about two madrassahs in the news report. You can see for yourself. However you simply refused to see.
About the VIP culture who says it is correct, but btw only musharraf is doing it? your ulemas in NWFP are doing it. Nawaz Sharif was doing it, it is the culture of the top bosses. You specifically mentioned army killing people in Balochistan and said that every cantonment is a terrorist camp and i replied to you that from how many cantonments have people come out and killed ordinary civilians with suicide bombs. People whose only fault was that they were present in the area.
Think for yourself. Army is not given 70% of the budget btw. You are simply forging figures.
i know i have no proof
but i know
in seventies army fought with india
put downs to their arms , and bangladesh come to existence
and soon after few years
when people start asking why this happen
army charged and capture pakistan
again
after Kargil
they have to loose posts ( no matter why ) but pak army left the posts ( a fact ) and soon after that when people asked why this happen
musharaf jump and capture Pakistan again
now its up to you what you say about this
we havn't seen indian army ever putting down their guns and never we saw indian army capturing their own country ( no matter how currupt their politions are, even they are more currupt then Pakistanies )
what you will get the conclusion from this
when people are being humiliated and kicked by officers on roads
see what have been done by the people who come out in protest for kidnapping of their loveones that were taken up by the army without any case and never appeared in courts
pictures shown on tv, newspaper , sons of thoes people were kicked , beaten
( kapray uttar ker sarak per marna ) what you say about that
[quote]
Indian Army is no better than Pakistan Army so that is why they never kicked their butts, See the whole escalation drama. Indians stayed on the border for one year and could not dare attack.
[/quote]
read above
[quote]
Pakistan won the war without fighting like in brasstacks. They declared they will attack and could not muster up courage to do so.
[/quote]
yes by laying down and accepting all the wills of indians
[quote]
I have posted about two madrassahs in the news report. You can see for yourself. However you simply refused to see.
[/quote]
you have made your mind that all madrassha should be banned (see your words in end ) only based on news report
like the bbc and cnn says that Iraq had the neuclear and chemical weapons so should be attacked
now tell me where are those
they were saying that Saddam was Zaalim and killing their people and lawlessness in iraq
now tell me is iraq is safe now
[quote]
About the VIP culture who says it is correct, but btw only musharraf is doing it? your ulemas in NWFP are doing it. Nawaz Sharif was doing it, it is the culture of the top bosses. You specifically mentioned army killing people in Balochistan and said that every cantonment is a terrorist camp and i replied to you that from how many cantonments have people come out and killed ordinary civilians with suicide bombs. People whose only fault was that they were present in the area.
[/quote]
why are you keeping your eyes shut
i don't know why
you havn't seen the behaviour of army officers these days
in every matter they say that we are officer and its our right to kick you etc etc
second i will say that why so far government fail to bring single proof against single madrassah
not a single have been found guilty
but you see
all the time , if some thing happen
they start blamming , falan falan madrassah have done that
without any proof
why is this double standard
on one side , you say , these are individuals and on other side you say all madrassah
[quote]
Think for yourself. Army is not given 70% of the budget btw. You are simply forging figures.
[/quote]
these are the figures again and again quoted by the politions
like imran Khan and others
70% for army
20 % for return of Qarzas
.1 % for education
etc etc
i will try to search and bring from authentic source
but this is for sure that army is getting 70%
page 12, it shows u in terms of percent of budget, high.. but not 70% not even close
percentage of budget s diff than percentage of GDp or GNP. and by percentage of budget it is in the 20-25% range consistently, which is way way way too high. But that 70% number is ridiculous.