Luxury jet for Musharraf

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Re: Luxury jet for Musharraf

^^ Good read, thanks for making the record straight :)

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Re: Luxury jet for Musharraf

You are welcome.

BTW it was original poster "Daleel's" fault to cut and paste something without double checking it.

$120 million for one learjet. Hhahhahah!

Hate burning up these guys can do such things.

Even $60 million is on really high side. You can buy a second hand learjet for 3-5 mils. You wanna buy newer one, OK spend another 15.

And if you buy 3 at the same time, there is a big discount. But the lefties and liberals will continue frothing against Prez. And I'd say what that great Persian poet Urfi said long time ago.

Awaaze sagaan kum na kunad rizqe gadaa-raa.

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**
You know what ... in the end the real news will be Pakistan buy three learjets for 60$ million .. Pathetic ..**

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Re: Luxury jet for Musharraf

*A government spokesman on Friday clarified that the number of aircraft in the VVIP fleet was three, and not **14 **as was mentioned in a news report headlined “New VVIP jet acquired”, published in Friday’s issue of Dawn.

The spokesman said: “There are only three aircraft in the VVIP fleet, including one Gulfstream 450, purchased recently.

“The other two aircraft, Gulfstream IV and Falcon-DA-20, are quite old and their years of manufacture are 1998 and 1968, respectively.”*

http://dawn.com/2007/12/01/nat20.htm

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Re: Luxury jet for Musharraf

**
Thanks for clarification. Anything else people against musharraf luxurious lifestyle.** :nook:

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Re: Luxury jet for Musharraf

What are you doing here then? I think you picked the wrong forum.

If you’ll see leader in Europe travelling around for their private and public purposes, you might see a difference how less they spent on travelling. Since all this government expenditures are burden on the nation (i.e.: taxes).

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Re: Luxury jet for Musharraf

ONLY three. Mashallah :k:

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Re: Luxury jet for Musharraf

Brother, thanks for the clarification news in DAWN. Well, most Pakistani newspapers these days under the pay roll of either past corrupts or western powers worried about development and progress in Pakistan are putting lies in their’s media outlets to malign present government, and that is not news or something to notice, even though many are getting misguided because of that.

But have you noticed something from clarification news? I noticed two.

First: Most of the time people read front page of DAWN on net, and few read other pages. Reason is that, all important news is found on DAWN front pages. Hence, when DAWN decided to spreading lies, they gave news on their ‘Front page’ but when clarification came from government to clear that lies, what happened? Dawn put the clarification in their National news, not on front page.

Second: is that, clarification came from government shows how sensitive government is about how they use public purse, hence they took notice of such absurd news. Something unprecedented in third world countries, especially when the news was quite mundane, as there was nothing abnormal in the news, not like the time when executives use to spend huge amount of tax payers money for their private reasons, for instance buying jumbos to travel, getting roads and development done in particular areas not on priority basis, just to benefit themselves, etc, and even when it use to come in news, these corrupt politicians or any person in authority, never use to bother, use to notice or even use to change their attitudes.

Misbah-Ul-Haq Performance
Misbah-Ul-Haq Performance
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Re: Luxury jet for Musharraf

Can any one clarify why would an Independent media source like DAWN spread lies about Government and Nation? What If News is correct and the Government Sources denied number of planes published by media. DAWN (as a reporting source) finally corrected numbers without questioning. So why blame of spreading lies? Just because It's against Mushy and some can't even hear a word against him?
Scandals on BB, NS and Co are taken here as very serious without questioning a word.
Funny.

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Re: Luxury jet for Musharraf

exactly. Teh length everyone goes to protect the "angel" is amazing. Just goes to show, it is not Pakistan which matters but the angel himself, after all in some peoples eyes he is more important than Pakistan.

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Re: Luxury jet for Musharraf

When is Pakistan going to have bonus compensation based on gdp for the poor pres, pm, mins, mullahs and politicians? While at it they should also add a nontaxable annual pension fund for jihadis, isi goons and supreme court "justices".

I suggest a 3% of gdp be distributed this way. This will save the 97% of gdp that is now being consumed by the cowards of the army.

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Re: Luxury jet for Musharraf

Well, independent media is business. Many journalists are in profession to earn money. When Pakistani past corrupts that made billions from corruption pay them, they have to play to their tune. Today, even countries like India and many western countries worried about Pakistani progress and developments, are paying huge amount to Pakistani media to spread lies.

As for corruption charges on NS and BB, no one is just taking that blindly. Western media do lie, but make sure that they do not defame a person without any information they can produce in court, as they can be sued. That is why they do not defame or accuse a person on their own responsibility, and as for NS or BB, both had their story of corruption in abundance throughout western media.

As for clarification of news, if it is based on lies, than media is obliged to clarify if they are asked, else they could find themselves in trouble even within Pakistan.

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Re: Luxury jet for Musharraf

Well, why don't you ask those working in Pakistan where minimum wages have increased from Rs 1200 in 1999 to today around Rs 4600. Why don't you ask disgraced ex-CJ Iftikhar who was getting Rs 134000 a month plus many extra benefits of job, when in 1998 a CJ use to get around Rs 20000 a month plus much less benefits of job. All these rises are benefits of increase in GDP.

Actually poor of Pakistan got a lot from growth in GDP. But there is no limit to wants and that also quickly. If a person who today upgraded his life from being paidaly (have no transport) to motor-cycle wala, he does not get happy because he now he wants car and that also immediately, and do not like to wait for time when country develops and progress more and than he could get one.

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Re: Luxury jet for Musharraf

What source is free then? Ptv is government (not independent). Dawn is sold out and Indians are to blame for. Jang has already had It's past full with those stories about being biased (NS times). What are reliable sources? PA reports? Oh come on.

[quote]

As for corruption charges on NS and BB, no one is just taking that blindly. Western media do lie, but make sure that they do not defame a person without any information they can produce in court, as they can be sued. That is why they do not defame or accuse a person on their own responsibility, and as for NS or BB, both had their story of corruption in abundance throughout western media.
[/quote]

I believe, many have taken It blindly and no one has asked. What of these allegations are true and what of them are not. Who can provide proof to It, since non has put them on trial. Therefore the accusations are yet to be proven, before we can blame some one of namak ******.
As far as Western Media is concerned they need the slightest excuse to drag Pakistan through the mire. Although some of the stories might different in Mushys presence.

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Re: Luxury jet for Musharraf

Just imagine, you wrote as if 'it is my view that Dawn is sold out and Indians are to blame for'. This is how misinformation get spread. I never wrote that Dawn or any media is on Indian pay roll. I just wrote that many corrupts are paying Pakistani media and Pakistani Journalists to write lies, plus Indians and Western countries are also paying media (some may be Pakistani too and may be some foreign medias) to spread lies.

As for reliable sources, (apart of having personal informations) one can easily find a lot by reading news from different sources plus analysing themselves from obvious.

For instance, as example, no one can deny that Pakistani ruppee devalued from Rs 19 to a dollar in 1988 to Rs 54 to a dollar in 1999 (around 300 percent in 11 years) and that was worse than trend as it devalued from Rs 10 to 19 during 11 years of Zia rule (around 90 percent in 11 years) or from Rs 4.76 to Rs 10 during Bhutto 6 years rule (100 percent in 6 years), but it got devalued from Rs 54 to Rs 61 in last 8 years (around 12 percent).

Similarly stock market has increased from 1200 to today over 14000 in 8 years. Federal tax collection increased from 308 billion rupees to today reaching 1000 billion rupees. Huge increases in ownership of cars, telephones, motorcycles, fridges, televisions and other goods in the country. Increase in Pakistan international trade during last 8 years. Increases in number of TV channels available to people. etc.

You can see tax collection as well as number of cars or other white goods are getting sold in Pakistan today, what is the electricity generation or what is minimum pay increases, or what really happened to prices (I can quote PPP Senetor quoting in Senate that prices have increased from 40 to 80 percent in Islamabad during last 8 years, and that was more than all over Pakistan), plus one can easily find that minimum wages in 1999 was even less than Rs 1200 that today is Rs 4600 (an increase of more than 350 percent compare to price increase of around 60 percent) ... and so on.

[quote]
I believe, many have taken It blindly and no one has asked. What of these allegations are true and what of them are not. Who can provide proof to It, since non has put them on trial. Therefore the accusations are yet to be proven, before we can blame some one of namak ******.
[/quote]

Well, there is lot of corruption charges in western media against NS and BB, so if these two are so innocent, they should know that their future depends on perception, so why they did not sue these media? Plus, as for BB, she got convicted in Swiss court and think that Pakistanis are so idiot that she can lie and people would not know? Plus, why they these corrupts do not come out clean about their wealth and how they afford what they do?

Bhutto was not mega rich (he was not even biggest landlord of sindh ... as his number is much below many, including Talpur, Talib-ul-Maula family, Pir Pagara ...etc ... and Bhutto family were always working family, like his father left Sindh to work for Nawab of Junagarh, Bhutto became lecturer in British University (Southamton) .. no mega rich leave their land to work away), plus his wealth was distributed amongst his 4 children, BB share at best was one=sixth .. what you think what is her source of wealth?

[quote]

As far as Western Media is concerned they need the slightest excuse to drag Pakistan through the mire. Although some of the stories might different in Mushys presence.
[/quote]

You are right that one cannot trust any media blindly, but still one have to admit that no western media would publish defamation story with baseless allegations like corruption without having any solid proof with them that if they are sued, they can defend themselves in court (as fines in west are too high for such activities, in reputations as well as money).

Anyhow, what you think of BB and Zardari case discussed in USA senate that is nothing to do with propaganda but to do regarding their own need, where they discussed their cases so that they can change American banking laws to fight against money laundering, so that illegally obtained money from drugs and corruption is cleaned. Can you consider American senate discussion on BB case as well as conviction of BB in Swiss court, propaganda too?

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Re: Luxury jet for Musharraf

I agree that scandals on BB NS etc are hyped by some members. But that doesn't mean that you should launch an equally vicious and factually incorrect campaign against a sitting president. Two wrongs may not make it right.

Dawn, BBC or whomever all are subject to publishing news that "sound right" but they may be factually incorrect.

The best way to deal with such news is simple! Use your own judgment. Remember the story was produced / gathered by a journalist who may have gone to college for 4 years and that's all. 4 years in college may prepare someone how to read and write, but that is not sufficient to produce correct stories.

In some cases you may be able to use your judgment more easily than others.

For example this story was really easy to discredit as it talked about 60 million pounds for one 10 seater jet. Even a simple web search would allow you to figure out that such planes do not cost $120 million a piece. If they did no one with average company budget would be able to get a corporate jet.

So calm down and take a deep breath. It is not good to encourage anarchy while sitting in comfy apartment in a Western suburb. Such anarchist views won't hurt you but your fellow countrymen in Pakistan would suffer dearly.

peace and love to all.

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Re: Luxury jet for Musharraf

No sir you missed the point here. I persist on telling me about those reliable source and your claim about Indians or any foreign country paying DAWN and alike for printing bs in their articles.
No one here (I HOPE) reads one news paper or uses only one media source to please him/herself.

Post that at Mushys resume thread. No value here.

But Bhutto family was:

Interesting that you use a source of media I don’t know of. Maybe a typo at wikipedia by some one.

Finally, something we can agree on.

~**~ Aaaj aap ne Dinner main kaya khaya ~**~
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Re: Luxury jet for Musharraf

Brother, where did I wrote that DAWN is paid by Indians? They could be, but did I wrote that anywhere?

[quote]
Post that at Mushys resume thread. No value here.
[/quote]

I was just quoting that to tell that to find truth from lies is easy if one look at real datas. It was nothing to do with Mushy resume, it was to do with filtering lies with truth. For instance, if anyone would say that people are gone poor, than one see the data to know that if they are really telling truth or not. For instance, if minimum wages have gone up by over 350 percent and prices have gone up by around 60 percent than any person can realise that people have become better off.

[quote]
But Bhutto family was:
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Bhutto family was, than how? Yea, they were rich enough, but they were never richer than many in Sindh. Amongst big landlords, they were at most medium level landlords of Sindh.

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en.wikipedia.org
Interesting that you use a source of media I don't know of. Maybe a typo at wikipedia by some one.
[/quote]

Brother, I did not quoted wikipedia anywhere above. Anyhow, what is written in wikimedia is not true. Biggest landlord of Sindh was Talpur (whose family once used to rule Sindh) and Pir Pagara is also one of the biggest and probably the riches sindhi landlord. Talib-ul-Malula family of Hala is also one of the biggest and riches landlord families of Sindh. As for Bhutto family, they were comparatively middle level, still big landlords.

[quote]

Finally, something we can agree on.
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Thanks, but what I wrote was not about Pakistani press, I was referring to western press, where defamation is considered big crime, with huge compensation if anyone is wrongly defamed.

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Re: Luxury jet for Musharraf

Thanks, I have never justified one wrong for another.

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Dawn, BBC or whomever all are subject to publishing news that "sound right" but they may be factually incorrect.
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Everyone can make mistakes. Doesn't prove them as liar though. You make em I make em. We are human. Nevertheless they have to take responsibilities for their actions.

[quote]

The best way to deal with such news is simple! Use your own judgment. Remember the story was produced / gathered by a journalist who may have gone to college for 4 years and that's all. 4 years in college may prepare someone how to read and write, but that is not sufficient to produce correct stories. In some cases you may be able to use your judgment more easily than others.
[/quote]

Judgement, which should be fair and not biased just because your mind and heart speaks for the Dictator. And there is no reading between the lines at such articles. Therefore you have to understand the affected parties, before making proper judgement.

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So calm down and take a deep breath. It is not good to encourage anarchy while sitting in comfy apartment in a Western suburb. Such anarchist views won't hurt you but your fellow countrymen in Pakistan would suffer dearly.
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I'm not so sure, whos posts are more disturbing. Let the public judge :)

peace and love to all.
[/quote]

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Re: Luxury jet for Musharraf

okay so from initial story to now the number of planes has gone from 14 to 3. and the price seems to be over reported as well.

can someone post here when we know what the real price was.