Re: Luxury jet for Musharraf
irrelevent, the post is about procurement of a jet .. the price of which has been claimed to be between $60M to $120M.
the questions I asked have not been answered so it appearsno one knows the history of this fleet, the equipment reyirement policy and the age of the equipment.
lets stay on the topic here.
Re: Luxury jet for Musharraf
oh yes the intelligent Pakistanis follow only PTV - His masters voice. 60m pounds or $, whatever is way too much for a poor nation like ours and certainly should not be spent on president's ayashi. Focus on the issue not trying to run down everything in order to support your leader. That is why we are in the state we are where every two bit third rate personality is compared with Jinnah. It is an insult to name both of them in the same sentence. Do you agree that it is an unnecessary expenditure and it could have been spent better elsewhere or not? Try answering that.
sorry man, i am a stickler for facts. i dont waste my time interacting with people who rely on rumors and innuendo to make political points.
Re: Luxury jet for Musharraf
Yeah right. 
You still havent replied to my question.
Re: Luxury jet for Musharraf
irrelevent, the post is about procurement of a jet .. the price of which has been claimed to be between $60M to $120M.
the questions I asked have not been answered so it appearsno one knows the history of this fleet, the equipment reyirement policy and the age of the equipment.
lets stay on the topic here.
Perhaps I was not answering your question, nor I know much about shah-kharchiyaan of our shehanshah and previous badshaah/rani.
It is relevent to the wardi wala Musharraf. Millitary in Pak is long hiding its systematic corruption behind its white elephant status in the country.
And I say systematic corruption, because where 50% of the population is below poverty level, its a crime to have incentives and luxuries that these public servent enjoy.
Down with the injustice! May hell be lose on them!
Re: Luxury jet for Musharraf
^^ stop cursing. Jalney wale ka mouh kala...May allah protect commander in chief from people like ^^... God bless president musharraf for women rights & enlightened moderation concept. He can buy 10 more jets , we are proud on you mr. President for unprecented economic growth. Allah bless you and your family --Amin. :D
Re: Luxury jet for Musharraf
actually, given the fact that senior level professionals in pak such as bankers are getting paid over $100,000 per annum these days, i would argue that military officers are underpaid esp considering that military folks are willing to lay their lives on the line for the country. if we want to retain the best people in pak army, then we should pay them a salary linked to their status in society. if senior bankers can afford to live in defence upon retirement, then so should their counterparts in the military. people who quibble about military salaries are usually underachievers bitter about the rough hand life has dealt them.
Re: Luxury jet for Musharraf
I am not referring to them as shah kharchiaan, I am merely tryiong tounderstand standard practice.
50% below poverty level? are we speaking of the same country? they were not even 50% during the 90s when they went from 26% to 35%
Incidences of poverty in Pakistan rose from 22–26% in the Fiscal Year 1991 to 32–35% in the Fiscal Year 1999. They have subsequently fallen to 25-26% according to the reports of the World Bank and UN Development Program reports.These reports contradict the claims made by the Government of Pakistan that the poverty rates are only 23.1%[4]. The CIA factbook places the 2006 poverty rate at 24 percent.
the point still is that we dont know how the fleet is managed, and the reasons, so on surface it looks like a nonsense expense, but we dont know for sure.
Re: Luxury jet for Musharraf
Thank you for confirming it. I always knew there are some ppl in GHQ posting on this forum. Your arguements, excuses and language used for zillay subhani do tell alot about your affliation. No sane civilian will ever defend a dictator like this.
Same goes for supporters of BB, NS and MQM. The proven lottairay and murderers.
Re: Luxury jet for Musharraf
Yes spending £60million on the ego of a president in a poor country like Pakistan, says it all. You need to put things in perspective and don't get personal.
If CJ can keep 14 cars in his use (including Benz) then why Mush cant use plane?
Having said that .... I am in favor of selling all those cars and planes across the board. They should all take use Margalla or they are free to buy whatever they want to buy by their own money
Re: Luxury jet for Musharraf
Thank you for confirming it. I always knew there are some ppl in GHQ posting on this forum. Your arguements, excuses and language used for zillay subhani do tell alot about your affliation. No sane civilian will ever defend a dictator like this. Same goes for supporters of BB, NS and MQM. The proven lottairay and murderers.
please dont get personal. its a very classles and low thing to do. does not suit you. thank you.
what have I said that is making excuses?
from the get go i have said it seems like an unneeded expense, but we cant say for sure unless we know fleet policy, after all 14 items did not appear the night before christmas under the tree, so they have been around. and we dont know the needs whether the newer planes are equipped with some sort of safety mechansisms that were not in the previous ones.
tomorrow if some PIA plane that he was in gets shot down by beardo weridos and many civilans on that plane buy the farm, then ppl would say he should not have flown in commercial planes knowing that ****** mullahs are after him etc.
can you be sure? can I be sure?
No, we can have opinions, but we dont know.
PS: I would have to be a Pakistani citizen to be in GHQ anyways :)
Re: Luxury jet for Musharraf
Thank you for confirming it. I always knew there are some ppl in GHQ posting on this forum. Your arguements, excuses and language used for zillay subhani do tell alot about your affliation. No sane civilian will ever defend a dictator like this. Same goes for supporters of BB, NS and MQM. The proven lottairay and murderers.
yes and i can see some people from nawaz shirfs palace on this forum
Re: Luxury jet for Musharraf
please dont get personal. its a very classles and low thing to do. does not suit you. thank you.
what have I said that is making excuses?
from the get go i have said it seems like an unneeded expense, but we cant say for sure unless we know fleet policy, after all 14 items did not appear the night before christmas under the tree, so they have been around. and we dont know the needs whether the newer planes are equipped with some sort of safety mechansisms that were not in the previous ones.
tomorrow if some PIA plane that he was in gets shot down by beardo weridos and many civilans on that plane buy the farm, then ppl would say he should not have flown in commercial planes knowing that ****** mullahs are after him etc.
can you be sure? can I be sure?
No, we can have opinions, but we dont know.
PS: I would have to be a Pakistani citizen to be in GHQ anyways :)
You posted before me once again. I was not responding to your post but some other shah se barh kar shah kay wafadaar.
To defend someone, atleast one should not do injustice. Musharraf had been very promising in early days, but he has invited the same corrupt lot from both corrupt parties, similar cards played by Zia in 80s. All this dirty game that Musharraf has indulge himself was unneccessary. He could have remained in uniform and reform the nation.
He has let the whole nation down, just like Zia and other dictators and their remains.
I am against millitary rule alltogether. No boot should come out of the barracks. Get the justice system correct, like in civilized countries and then see which haramkhor politician dares to do corruption or jeopardize the country.
Millitary dictators got many chances, full authority and plain field. But they didn't do anything to correct the system, because they are part of it.
Thats why I demand to do a clean sweep of a million or two (top millitary, civil beurucracy, mullahs and brit/US agents), once and forever. Let people of Pak rule their own country, with modesty and harmony.
Re: Luxury jet for Musharraf
^^ sure if he was selling somosas on rd side I say give him 25% bonuses, but using tx payers money to buy luxury jet for himself? Why not just use PIA like everyone else has been using before him?
That was the case during the time of BB and NS, when they needed a jumbo to carry 100s of VVIP when visiting another country, and plane needed to be big enough to carry Zardari horse or Nawaz kitchen. That is why they use to fly around on not executive planes that can carry around 10 people, but jumbo jets. That was time when Pakistan was bankrupt country with foreign exchange reserves not even sufficient to meet Pakistan 2 weeks requirement, yet when Pakistani thug executives use to travel abroad, Pakistan use to need fleet of luxury jumbo jets with king's kitchen and servants' rooms.
When Musharraf came to power, he gave those Jumbos to PIA and started using military planes that can carry few people. Today when Pakistan is sitting on around 17 billion dollars reserve and is considered as 146 bn dollars economy (not meagre 62 billion dollars economy in 1999), where Chief Justice salary has increased from Rs 20000 in 1998 to Rs 134000 today, I think to spend few million dollars on plane that can carry executives to Capitals of various Countries is prudent expenditure.
One should remember that Pakistan today is not a rag-tag country of 1999. It seems that many Pakistanis could not digest this fact :). Anyhow, I have this feeling that if by any remote chance, BB or NS would ever come back in power, all these 8 to 10 seat little aircrafts would get replaced again with luxury jumbos :(
Re: Luxury jet for Musharraf
^^ stop cursing. Jalney wale ka mouh kala...May allah protect commander in chief from people like ^^... God bless president musharraf for women rights & enlightened moderation concept. He can buy 10 more jets , we are proud on you mr. President for unprecented economic growth. Allah bless you and your family --Amin. :D
yaar please be accurate when making claims/statements, it is okay to pray for someone you hold dear but making false claims in the same sentence ? It is the same president who said that women are willing to be raped to get asylum outside Pakistan... some respect he has for women.
Re: Luxury jet for Musharraf
Activists hold a candle light rally in support of Pakistan’s President Pervez Musharraf in Hyderabad
Re: Luxury jet for Musharraf
yaar please be accurate when making claims/statements, it is okay to pray for someone you hold dear but making false claims in the same sentence ? It is the same president who said that women are willing to be raped to get asylum outside Pakistan... some respect he has for women.
Bhai, galat-bayani say kaam kewn latay hou? Thohmat bohut bara gunah hay. If western media twisted the interview and some Pakistani media followed, does that mean what they said is true?
I have heard the interview you are referring where Musharraf was accused of saying what you mentioned. The interview was once on internet. I do not know if it is still there on the net or not.
What he said was that ‘In Islamabad, people are saying that …….’ Now, if I say that people in Pakistan saying ‘XYZ …….’ than would you consider that I my saying ‘XYZ … …’?
Actually, when a person says that ‘So and so’ says that, it means that the person himself does not believe on that, unless that person clearly mentions that ‘So and so are saying that and I believe on them’
Re: Luxury jet for Musharraf
Shame shame shame for Prez. He should not fly in 10 seater. Instead he should hire a Tonga.
We are poor people. All of us use Tongas, camels, goats, donkeys.
How dare our prez. refuse to use Tongas, camels, goats, or donkeys.
Also in Pakistan we live in straw huts, Then
how dare our prez. have a presidential house?
In Pakistan we all drink from the local chappar (sewage filled pond),
How dare our prez. drink from Nestle bottles.
It is time to rise up against the Prez.
Where is Imran when we need him? Oh well he is busy riding his own tonga party.
p.s. BTW 10 seater Lear Jet cannot be worth 60 million pounds (or $120 million).
Nobody is paying $120 million for a 10 seater plane even when it is covered in gold.
So check your facts before frothing on the net please.
Re: Luxury jet for Musharraf
Well said and thanks on pointing at exaggerated price that is quoted in the article. It only shows how cheap propaganda these people do (or maybe an innocent mistake) 
Actually it did not occurred to me that 10 seater Learjet could not cost $120 dollars. But then as you should know, people who are propaganda machines know how to make propagandas and even buy propaganda space in western newspapers (as long as it is not a direct accusation and defamation where papers can be sued, many western newspaper are willing to sell space for propaganda).
Anyhow, here is the News of the mentioned jet, that is worth not 60 million pounds (around 125 million dollars) but $60 million dollars, even though that seems too high to me for such aircraft. In early 1990s, VVIP Learjet used to cost $15 million dollars (or less), and Chief Minister of the poorest Pakistani province, Balochistan used to fly on such jet.
As for President Musharraf, he recently visited Saudi Arabia and what I know, he went there on scheduled regular PIA flight. Not on any executive aircraft. Though small aircrafts is needed in government, as since Musharraf has taken over power, numbers in Pakistani delegates visiting abroad has reduced from several hundreds during all past regimes to handful, sometime even two to three.
http://www.dawn.com/2007/11/30/top13.htm
New VVIP jet acquired
By Our Staff Reporter
ISLAMABAD, Nov 29: A new executive jet has been acquired for use by President Pervez Musharraf, raising the number of aircraft in the VVIP fleet to 14.
The 10-seater Learjet is one of the three planes whose procurement was approved by former prime minister Shaukat Aziz.
“American pilots, who brought the jet here a few days ago, have started training their Pakistani counterparts,” a source said, adding that the training would take two months.
The country’s VVIP fleet includes G-IV, Cessna Citation V, Cessna Citation Excel, Learjet 35, Learjet 45 XR, Raytheon Hawker 400, Falcon 20, Cessna Conquest II, Bell 412 helicopters (3) and an MI-17 helicopter.
“Two other jets ordered may land here after the elections. These jets are for personal use of president and prime minister,” the source said.
He said the value of the new luxury jet was about $60million.
On March 15 this year, Mr Aziz had flown to Uzbekistan in a VVIP plane gifted by Qatar in February. The Airbus-310 aircraft was given official livery and it underwent engineering checks at PIA facilities in Karachi.
Re: Luxury jet for Musharraf
This is how our political executives like to move around
It is an old article … from April 2003. It seems that Jang does not have that on their site, but if one could find the access, they can find the article too (or could confirm that from whatever source).
Things to Note from the news article Jang:
The aeroplane was purchased by the PIA management under orders of former prime minister Nawaz Sharif in 1992 for VVIP flights. At that time the price of the plane was said to be around $ 28 million for which loan was secured.
The plane’s configuration was changed to accommodate VVIP passengers. The aircraft was used by Nawaz Sharif and then by Benazir Bhutto. Interestingly when the government of Nawaz Sharif had purchased the plane, the then opposition leader Benazir Bhutto had raised hue and cry, saying the national exchequer was being plundered on personal whims of the prime minister. Later, during a caretaker government the interim prime minister stopped using it but the plane again came under the used of Nawaz Sharif during his second tenure.
After October 12, 1999 military take-over, General Pervez Musharraf preferred to travel on routine flights instead of retaining the VVIP plane. Musharraf, exercising his authority being the chief executive of the country, rather returned the Boeing-737 to the Pakistan International Airlines.
The aeroplane was handed over to PIA permanently along with its papers. The plane was re-configurated with additional amount to prepare it for routine commercial flights. It added to the PIA fleet of Boeing-737 that rose to seven with its addition. According to a report, at the time of its handing over to the PIA management, in early 2000, the interest and depreciation of this aircraft had reached around $ 21 million since 1992. The estimated cost of the plane assessed at that time was said to be around $ 35 million.
http://jang.com.pk/thenews/apr2003-d…ain/main18.htm
PM Jamali wants VVIP B-737 for his use
By Ansar Abbasi
ISLAMABAD: Prime Minister Mir Zafarullah Khan Jamali wants for him a high priced VVIP plane to be exclusively used for his foreign trips, it is learnt.
Sources in the prime minister’s secretariat told The News that Zafarullah Khan Jamali had directed to get back from the Pakistan International Airlines the Boeing-737, which was originally purchased for the country’s chief executive. A spokesman of the prime minister’s secretariat when contacted confirmed that there was a move afoot to get back VVIP plane for the prime minister. A high-level meeting in the prime minister’s secretariat held recently to deliberate on the procedures that would help smoothly fulfilling Jamali’s desire. The Boeing-737 is currently used by the Pakistan International Airlines for the airlines’ routine commercial flights.
The aeroplane was purchased by the PIA management under orders of former prime minister Nawaz Sharif in 1992 for VVIP flights. At that time the price of the plane was said to be around $ 28 million for which loan was secured.
The plane’s configuration was changed to accommodate VVIP passengers. The aircraft was used by Nawaz Sharif and then by Benazir Bhutto. Interestingly when the government of Nawaz Sharif had purchased the plane, the then opposition leader Benazir Bhutto had raised hue and cry, saying the national exchequer was being plundered on personal whims of the prime minister. Later, during a caretaker government the interim prime minister stopped using it but the plane again came under the used of Nawaz Sharif during his second tenure.
After October 12, 1999 military take-over, General Pervez Musharraf preferred to travel on routine flights instead of retaining the VVIP plane. Musharraf, exercising his authority being the chief executive of the country, rather returned the Boeing-737 to the Pakistan International Airlines.
The aeroplane was handed over to PIA permanently along with its papers. The plane was re-configurated with additional amount to prepare it for routine commercial flights. It added to the PIA fleet of Boeing-737 that rose to seven with its addition. According to a report, at the time of its handing over to the PIA management, in early 2000, the interest and depreciation of this aircraft had reached around $ 21 million since 1992. The estimated cost of the plane assessed at that time was said to be around $ 35 million.
**Though the plane is presently earning revenues for the PIA, after its return to the PM for VVIPs use it would cost the national exchequer heavily. **The per hour running cost of the Boeing 737 was estimated around Rs 125,000 at least five years back.
**Those who distanced themselves from such VVIP planes in the past including General Musharraf failed to understand as to why it was difficult for the government leaders to travel by ordinary planes. **Prior to General Musharraf, the Boeing 737 was once returned to PIA by former caretaker prime minister Balakh Sher Mazari. Ironically it was reclaimed as soon as Mazari left office. There is no latest data available about the VVIP’s existing fleet of special planes. However, till late 90s the prime minister had three special planes on his disposal including 120 seats Boeing 737, Falcon Jet and Fokker Turbo Prop Jet; Balochistan chief minister had a Lear Jet; Punjab chief minister had two aircraft-Sessna Conquest Prop Jet and Beech Jet; Sindh chief minister had a Cessna Conquest Prop Jet; and NWFP chief minister had Cessna 421 Piston Engine.
Re: Luxury jet for Musharraf
Another reminder of old days of corrupts: Think and be satisfied that we are in good hands and hope that we do not get back to those days :)
VIP’s of Poor Pakistan Fleet of Aircraft
(Dawn May 5 1995)
THE recent interview by the Chief of the Air Staff to an English-language daily has caused quite a stir. His talk about the gaping disparity between India and Pakistan in the field of hi-tech fighter air-craft has had different levels of reactions and up to a certain extent disappointed certain quarters. This should not dishearten our country-men, because we may be lacking in defense capabilities, but we are far ahead of the Indians in other field of aviation. It should give courage to our nation that we outnumber the Indians in VIP aircrafts which are far costlier and more sophisticated than anything the Indians have.
It is worth noting that democratic regimes starting with Ms Benazir Bhutto's first tenure as Prime Minister gave special attention to this area and most of these luxury aircrafts were purchased during her tenure. The Prime Minister's fleet consists of four VIP aircraft. These include an F-27 Fokker, a DA-20 Falcon, a Boeing 707 and a Boeing 737. These are in addition to many other PIA, PAF and army aircraft that are routinely used for VIP travel. The F-27 Fokker and DA-20 Falcon aircraft were purchased by the PAF for training purposes but are being used for VIP travel. The Boeing-707 has been loaned by PIA after renovation at a cost allegedly of $5 million. The Boeing-737 air-craft which is widely used by the Prime Minister at phenomenal operating cost was said to have been purchased by PIA for $30 million for VIP use and for which PIA, despite its financial crisis, is still said to be paying to Westminster Bank, London.
**
**Ms Benazir Bhutto wanted to buy a Boeing-747 Jumbo Jet for VIP use but this project was shelved by caretaker Prime Minister, Mr Meraj Khalid. Now the government is reportedly planning to buy a Boeing-777 at a cost of $160 million.
Although all provincial capitals are well connected by regular airline fights, still a fleet of most modern executive aircraft is maintained by different provincial heads. These aircraft are used to transport different provincial heads, their families and friends. The Punjab chief minister travels in a Beech-200 aircraft purchased during Mr. Wattoo's tenure at a cost of $12 million. This is in addition to a Cessna-441 that was previously used.
The Balochistan Chief Minister travels in a Learjet purchased a few years ago reportedly for $15 million. The Sindh Chief Minister uses a Cessna-441 and the NWFP Chief Minister travels in a Cessna-421. WAPDA, despite its financial difficulties, is maintaining a Cesstia-441 and a Cessna-402 for its executives. The army chief mostly travels in a Citation jet although the army also maintains a fleet of VIP aircraft. The navy has converted one of its F-27 Fokker aircraft into a VIP aircraft. It is not only that these aircraft are very expensive but also their maintenance cost is phenomenal. Our leaders prefer to travel in these aircrafts instead of regular air-line fights because, apart from privacy, there is no official audit of these flights and friends and relatives of the VIPs can also take advantage of these free rides.
Mr. Nawaz Sharif, after his re-election as Prime Minister had placed the revival of the economy as his first priority and in this connection had introduced various schemes. Numerous departments are being downsized and thousands of people have lost their jobs. But our leaders, on their part, have taken no steps to reduce their expenditure. They live in luxurious houses with battalions of servants, travel in expensive cars and aircraft and they spend lavishly.
So when Air Chief Marshal Pervaiz Mehdi pleads for new fighter aircraft, he should remember that in a poor country like Pakistan, we can either finance our defense needs or the luxurious life-style of our leaders.
ASIF MAHMOOD
Islamabad