Just bumped into couple of muslims in montreal who are homosexual. One thing leads to another and we ended up discussing it on religious grounds and at some point i was speechless ..
Here are few arguments that i made
we discussed about qom-e-lot. I ACCEPTED that it was their “one of sin” not the only sin. but .. it was a sin
secondly, if you read quran then you might find few verses where the reward is being mentioned and it is mentioned like this .. “tayabun wa tayibaat” .. i.e. naik mardou k liye naik aurtain hain. it is never mentioned k naik mardou k liye naik mard or vice versa
if you accept that islam is a relgiion which gives you moral values to live in a society besides being a nice human being .. you might realize that being homosexual is against social norms. how come you reproduce further? Just imagine if God had create Adam and John instead of Adam and Eve?
could you guys help me in finding more material against homosexuality?
Re: Looking for supportive verses/ahadeeths against homosexuality
Ask them if they think that in Islam, a man can marry a man? If the answer is no then the sexual relationship between two males is Zina. Zina is haram in Islam.
Re: Looking for supportive verses/ahadeeths against homosexuality
okay for simplicity lets not drag the "Zina" in it .. .. caz zina is very obvious in todays culture .. .. even if ppl are straight they are dating and doing stuff .. which is clearly not allowed and it is a basic form of zina.
I started to gave the argument on the basis of zina they just brought up this arguemnt, which i mentioned above. which is valid!
Re: Looking for supportive verses/ahadeeths against homosexuality
There you go.
These days people can even argue over what is actually mentioned and justify it by bringing in their own interpretations, and here is a situation that isn't written in black and white. It can definitely be concluded that homosexuality isn't allowed but again, depending on your mindset, you can conclude anything these days.
Re: Looking for supportive verses/ahadeeths against homosexuality
Let me try .. :( .. .. Please please .. pretty please .. :p .. lol! .. okay seirously .. I get pissed off if people use islam for their defense and "manipulate" it the way they want to .. .. .. I just feel obsessed. So i am looking for these ahadeeths, ayats if i can find some :)
Re: Looking for supportive verses/ahadeeths against homosexuality
The most fundamental thing that is ignored by all such people who tend to look for specific verses in the Quran for outlawing a specific act is that anything that is termed a sin is forbidden by default. No questions asked. There is no such thing called a sin which is allowed. If any sin is allowed it is mentioned by way of exception in the Quran or ahadith such as lying being allowed to reconcile between a husband and wife. To save ones life when fear of being killing is apparent for being a muslim. The specific instances where a sin is permitted are mentioned, like eating pork to save ones life. People who present such arguments to justify their acts disregard the very basis of a sin. Every sin is forbidden. Sodomy has been clearly and transparently marked as a sin in Quran hence IT IS FORBIDDEN. There is no need to equate something with a sin and then follow up to say it is forbidden. When you argue with such people and simple ask are sins forbidden or not, they will not have much room to manouver without being naive about their POV.
Re: Looking for supportive verses/ahadeeths against homosexuality
Let me try .. :( .. .. Please please .. pretty please .. :p .. lol! .. okay seirously .. I get pissed off if people use islam for their defense and "manipulate" it the way they want to .. .. ..
That is the biggest disease that we are suffering from. People dont even do sin as sin, they try to justify it through islam and try to make thier act islamic. That is pathetic. Aray bhai, gunah kar rahai ho to kum az kum gunah samajh ke karo, shayad allah taala toba kee tofeeq de dain. Once you dont even think that you are doing anything wrong, possibility of repentance goes out of the window.
Re: Looking for supportive verses/ahadeeths against homosexuality
That was really helpful. It reminds me of some ayat that i can relate to .. ..
Sodomy was clearly forbidden with following ayat (mafhoom) “aurat tumhari khaiti k jaisi hai in mai seedhay rastay say jao”. Correct me if i am wrong.
Secondly, the way you posed the arguments i.e. as you mentioned that haram things are allowed (pork, alcohol) if you dont have an option to save your life. but homosexuality has never been said like that. Hazoor pak s.a.w mentioned (mafhoom) “aur tum mai say jo koi shadi ki umer ko pohnchay aur sahab-e-ista’at ho wo shadi kray. Agr nahi kr skta to kasrat say rozay rakhay” (correct me if i am wrong). This hadeet clearly tells that prophet has not given an alternate options since in ahadeeth shadi is always referred between guy/girl.
Thirdly, Our prophet has done things by himself if those things were against the norms of the society at that time. Just to tell his ummat that it is not right. Prophet married 11 women, among them there were old women, divorced women, widowed women and even young woman. Moreover, 2 of them were sisters as well.
The point is if there was something that he wanted us to tell he has done it himself or he has not “shown” and objectino if some sahaba has done that. but neither him not even sahaba did this deed.
Exactly .. .. and u know TLK .. what pissed me off? one of the guy said that Ramdan is coming and i have to tell me boyfriend that this holy month for us .. n this n that .. i was like WTH man .. .. i reall wanted to kill that guy
Re: Looking for supportive verses/ahadeeths against homosexuality
Exactly .. .. and u know TLK .. what pissed me off? one of the guy said that Ramdan is coming and i have to tell me boyfriend that this holy month for us .. n this n that .. i was like WTH man .. .. i reall wanted to kill that guy :$
Re: Looking for supportive verses/ahadeeths against homosexuality
No offense mate. But don't you think it's absurd to use religions to disclose your matters? Let them be. What have you got against homosexuality anyway? Let people live the life they want to. Free world, mate.
Re: Looking for supportive verses/ahadeeths against homosexuality
No offense mate. But don't you think it's absurd to use religions to disclose your matters? Let them be. What have you got against homosexuality anyway? Let people live the life they want to. Free world, mate.
I don't have any problem. Its their life ..
But i have problem when they use ISLAM to defend them
But i have problem when they tell others that ISLAM ALLOWS IT! Hence, giving a wrong impression of islam!
I do have problem when the manipulate islam the way it satisfy them and then spread those manipulated words.
