Re: London - riots
I really hope the 10,000 additional police officers can bring this all to an end tonight.
Re: London - riots
Ravage that video sums it up. The 'higher ups' do not want to hear it.
These kids have NO future which is why they are the ones who are out on the streets rioting. They have nothing to lose.
Re: London - riots
Ravage that video sums it up. The 'higher ups' do not want to hear it.
These kids have NO future which is why they are the ones who are out on the streets rioting. They have nothing to lose.
and believe me they arent going to gain anything from here either ...
Re: London - riots
Wow!
Re: London - riots
Ravage that video sums it up. The 'higher ups' do not want to hear it.
These kids have NO future which is why they are the ones who are out on the streets rioting. They have nothing to lose.
Completely agree. There is a reason why the social contract is completely irrelevant and absurd to the kids. It is an aspect of the same society that has them at the margins and is content with that.
A riot is the language of the unheard. - Martin Luther King
Ofcourse the strategy they use then for anyone who will talk about this is 'you're justifying it'. Just as anyone who used to talk about injustice in Palestine in response to suicide bombings in Israel was accused to justifying it. And its true, people who do wish to talk about injustice tend to have less of an appetite of seeing injustice meted in their cause.
Personally, and this is an experience I share with other Pakistanies who came to London expecting a more equal society, this is not surprising.
Re: London - riots
Similar "riots" and even far worse things are happening in Middle East but we like to call it "revolution".
Would it be correct to call these people in UK rebels rather than rioters?
Re: London - riots
Ravage that video sums it up. The 'higher ups' do not want to hear it.
These kids have NO future which is why they are the ones who are out on the streets rioting. They have nothing to lose.
I don't agree with this, there are plenty of people from similar backgrounds as the rioters, people who grew up in poverty, on council estates, and they managed to make something of themselves, they did this by making a choice not to be a part of the gang/ghetto culture that is so prevalent in the parts they live in. They made a future for themselves. These rioters made bad choices and rather than try and do something about it they continue making bad choices. They are old enough now to know better and the majority of these rioters are just exploiting a bad situation by looting and destroying whatever they can get their hands on, for fun.
Re: London - riots
Wow!
I ran away from Karachi and now its seems things could turn against us "the freshies" here! OMG!
Re: London - riots
Similar "riots" and even far worse things are happening in Middle East but we like to call it "revolution".
Would it be correct to call these people in UK rebels rather than rioters?
Very true. The high moral horse of these people is really exposed. Over there they are rebels and revolutionaries, over here they are alienated youth and hooligans. Over there FB bans are indicative of a regressive closed society. Over here Tottenham MPs can call for Blackberry bans and police can investigate twitter and facebook its fine.
Re: London - riots
I ran away from Karachi and now its seems things could turn against the "freshies" here! OMG!
hmmm...things were never in favour of "freshies" or immigrants from the beginning, the only change is that they have started to show this on TV.
Re: London - riots
I don't agree with this, there are plenty of people from similar backgrounds as the rioters, people who grew up in poverty, on council estates, and they managed to make something of themselves, they did this by making a choice not to be a part of the gang/ghetto culture that is so prevalent in the parts they live in. They made a future for themselves. These rioters made bad choices and rather than try and do something about it they continue making bad choices. They are old enough now to know better and the majority of these rioters are just exploiting a bad situation by looting and destroying whatever they can get their hands on, for fun.
So what you are saying is if you want to emerge from the margins, you need to make a choice to avoid the particular subculture of your neighbourhood. Since its ghetto culture we can feel okay saying that. As opposed to saying if Muslims want to succeed they should abandon beards or hijab etc, which would be received as racist.
If its all about individual choice, why do these ghettos persist over generations? Why do the riots happen in the same localities, sometimes in the same exact streets? Is it something about those streets that causes those individuals to lack a certain genetic predisposition towards avoiding their ghetto culture?
Re: London - riots
Things are not good even today - constant police sirens!!!
Re: London - riots
sazzie, there is a huge social class division in England. This was apparent when my family lived there and it's STILL very, very prevalent. Why did the same riots happen in the same/closeby neighbourhoods in 1985? What has changed from that time until now? How much has changed? Was a bandaid applied in 1985 and then pushed under the rug, only to have it erupt all over again?
I don't even think these riots are about racism. It's about the class difference. They are deliberately targeting business owners because they are perceived to be successful and wealthy. Frankly, with the amount of social services cuts over the past 20 years (NHS cuts, welfare cuts, education cuts), I am not surprised at these riots.
Yes, people try and climb out of the gutter and some do get out and do better for themselves but that is very few compared to the vast majority who are written off before they are even provided with an opportunity.
The same thing is happening all over the world. It's even here in North America, but on a much more smaller degree.
Re: London - riots
LOL. have some respect idiaatic woman!
Re: London - riots
these youths.. these criminals aren't attacking businesses because they want their voices to be heard and their pain to be felt. it is out of sheer entertainment, the chance to wreak havoc, and get in on the freebies. since october last year everyone has been holding demos and protesting against cuts and fees, that is called speaking up for your rights and voicing your concerns. this is just thugs having a good time.
Re: London - riots
^ I have to agree.
what I don't understand is the number of people we see standing around while the looting is going on and just grinning.......what the heck is that all about?
Re: London - riots
Looting always happens in riots [as opposed to protests, which are pre-planned, organized]. Los Angeles 1992, in 1968 when MLK was shot, or even in the aftermath of Katrina.
If you dont view society as legitimate, or even view it as what keeps you down, what reason do you have not to take advantage of a breakdown in it.
Re: London - riots
So what you are saying is if you want to emerge from the margins, you need to make a choice to avoid the particular subculture of your neighbourhood. Since its ghetto culture we can feel okay saying that. As opposed to saying if Muslims want to succeed they should abandon beards or hijab etc, which would be received as racist.
If its all about individual choice, why do these ghettos persist over generations? Why do the riots happen in the same localities, sometimes in the same exact streets? Is it something about those streets that causes those individuals to lack a certain genetic predisposition towards avoiding their ghetto culture?
There's a difference between following culture (ghetto culture) and following religion (beard, hijab etc) so I don't see how this comparison is relevant to what i said.
It's not ALL about individual choice i grant you but it's certainly a big part of it. The ghettos persist cos the government doesn't do what's needed to help the people in them out but it's too easy to blame a person's (one old enough to know between right and wrong)actions on backrounds, like i said, they are old enough to know better and therefore take responsibility for their actions.
Re: London - riots
If you dont view society as legitimate, or even view it as what keeps you down, what reason do you have not to take advantage of a breakdown in it.
perhaps that you are answerable to a greater authority?
dignity?
self-respect?
Re: London - riots
sazzie, there is a huge social class division in England. This was apparent when my family lived there and it's STILL very, very prevalent. Why did the same riots happen in the same/closeby neighbourhoods in 1985? What has changed from that time until now? How much has changed? Was a bandaid applied in 1985 and then pushed under the rug, only to have it erupt all over again?
I don't even think these riots are about racism. It's about the class difference. They are deliberately targeting business owners because they are perceived to be successful and wealthy. Frankly, with the amount of social services cuts over the past 20 years (NHS cuts, welfare cuts, education cuts), I am not surprised at these riots.
Yes, people try and climb out of the gutter and some do get out and do better for themselves but that is very few compared to the vast majority who are written off before they are even provided with an opportunity.
The same thing is happening all over the world. It's even here in North America, but on a much more smaller degree.
I agree there's a social division, many countries all over the world have this problem, but that's really no excuse for what's happening. What i'm saying (and said in previous posts) is that the rioters are mainly doing it for fun, they arent targeting wealthy businesses at all, they're actually targeting their favourite stores like Adidas lol, they're just after free goods and are taking advantage of the original reasons for the riots starting. That's why i've said they should be given full responsibility for their actions!