Living in a non-Muslim Country can be seen as a test of faith

Re: Living in a non-Muslim Country can be seen as a test of faith

Well wow i can't believe it what kind of parents are teaching these things, if my daughter sees anything like that we told her to just say astagfirrullah and move on.and we need to explain them its their country they can wear whatever they like their religion allows them and our religion doesn't and we have to tell them if we do wrong we are going to hell ,we have to take care of ourselves .

Re: Living in a non-Muslim Country can be seen as a test of faith


Im in UK in year 10 :)

Re: Living in a non-Muslim Country can be seen as a test of faith

People can u plz be posting things that will be easier for me to understand :)

Thankz sooo far :)

Re: Living in a non-Muslim Country can be seen as a test of faith

Islam teaches us to be proactive in our communities (regardless of what country we're in). We're supposed to:

-Go out and help people.
-Visit the sick
-Feed the poor
-Help the needy
-Be courteous to our neighbours

Problem is we immigrants are too reserved and shy for all this. Part of the reason for this stems from the fact that most of us think lack of the english knowledge makes us inferior. Lack of communication skills lead to a serious lack of confidence when talking to a big crowd or say in an office meeting. Smooth guy knows this we were at a local elections recently and between the local (white, black etc) and immigrant (brown) candidates it was clear who the winner is once they did the speeches. Locals give speeches like theyre in war or something, while the immigrant candidate spoke like he was murmuring to himself.. total ROTFLMAO situation. So people build some confidence and get out of your little cocoons!

Immigrants are too busy trying to catch up with what they think is a "normal" life (own house, car, secure job, family, social life) that they hardly give any thought to ever giving back. The other day the imam at friday prayers urged us all to go to old homes and hospitals and visit the old and sick people in our community, regardless if we know them or not. He gave us the example of Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) who used to go visit people when they were sick (muslims AND non-muslims). We can do it too, just to say hi, just to see how theyre doing. Maybe take them a few pancakes. If all of us did this regularly none of them would ever feel lonely. Then you would ask.. but hey.. how can we go visit people who we dont know.. well.. you still can. But if you really want to know them, THEN GET OUT AND GET INVOLVED IN YOUR COMMUNITY AND GET TO KNOW PEOPLE BEFORE THEY GET SICK.

Feeding the poor. In Pakistan and India we're used to seeing hungry people on the streets so it makes sense to give them food. But up here the only people you see hungry are the 2-3 homeless people in downtowns who have ruined their own life by doing drugs and alcohol. They have shelters for them but they dont want to use them. I guess the best thing to do then is to just give some food to a local mosque church synagogue temple gurdwara whatever you fancy- they all distribute free food among worshippers.

Then theres the rights of neighbours!! We're too scared to get to know all our neighbours. The only ones we mingle with are the other paki/indian immigrant families even if they live 15 doors down. But we'll never know the white or black or chinese people living next door. It is our responsibility to get to know all our neighbours and ensure their well being. To not go to bed at night knowing that one of your neighbours is going to bed hungry (although this one is a bit hard to impliment in the west).

We have to try to make ourselves stand out as a helping hand to everyone else. Forget the inferiority complexes, forget the reservedness. Just go out and explode (not in a terrorist way lol). Granted that people in the west are a bit too private and would rather not have you mingle with their lives but you can atleast give out a signal that hey you're there to help if someone were to need it.

Re: Living in a non-Muslim Country can be seen as a test of faith

Well Pakistan is not a best option also i find it hard to tell my children that now muslims are doing these things and she will definately question me that mom you told us muslims don't wear sleeveless then why are they doing that? And What PAkistan has become after musharraf is intolerable.Does islamic country is suppose to do these thing the colleges are even celebrating Valentines, and doing every thing wearing sleevless etc.Well i find it easy here that we tell them beta its their religion and and we are different .

Re: Living in a non-Muslim Country can be seen as a test of faith

wow - most replies on this thread seem to suggest that muslims, although willing to relocate to western countries from their islamic countries, will resist any opportunity to integrate into these societies.

Re: Living in a non-Muslim Country can be seen as a test of faith

Queerio yaar theres different levels and kinds of integration. You cant just say either you integrate or you dont. Thats very george bush like. You have to have just the right mix. Muslims have not yet found that mix, especially not the first wave immigrants.

Muslims are trying to avoid the sort of integration that will cause them to lose their ethics morals and values. Integration that would make them do the things forbidden in their religion. But in doing so unfortunately they are also missing out on the kind of integration that benefits all of society. Like giving back to their communities, being involved in local politics, healthcare issues etc etc.

Re: Living in a non-Muslim Country can be seen as a test of faith

Integrate and assimilate are two diff things mate.

Muslims'd be willing to integrate if given the chance but most ppl want them to assimilate, can't do that.

Maybe you Hindus/Indians can because you don't have much values/morals to begin with, your ways are very slippery... You'll worship absoloutley anything, change your religion etc. Tum loag hawaa ke rukh ke saath murr jaatey ho, other ppl are more serious about their identity.

Re: Living in a non-Muslim Country can be seen as a test of faith

chee,

nothing wrong with your idea of integration. its the confuzzled's and umezafeerah versions which really stink. assuming that muslims are the only ones with morals and values, judging others with their ideas of morality, zero respect for other peoples customs, but demanding respect for their own customs with great militancy. i hate to say this, but i wouldnt want confuzzled as my neighbour or colleague, and neither would most non muslims.

Re: Living in a non-Muslim Country can be seen as a test of faith

Let's think a little about integration and take US for example. There is a wide diversity of ppl here with different sets of morals and values. I have met ppl who were drunk and stoned pretty much all da time and christian girls who refused to engage in pre-marital sex.

So in US, who should these muslims hold as a standard for integration? should they become piss drunk?

Re: Living in a non-Muslim Country can be seen as a test of faith

I think the question should be more like, how can I fit in here while adhering to the beleifs that I hold important. Who CARES if your neighbor gets drunk (although in my entire life of living in US of a, I never had a neighbor like this) but so WHAT? Does the neighbor do anything to force you to abandon your beleifs? Or does the neighbor leave you to yourself? It can be a very easy thing to live side-by-side with someone of a different culture, or it can be a very difficult thing. You can go out after work with colleagues and have a pepsi while they have a beer (beleive me THEY dont care) Or you can turn up your nose and go home. More than likely, you'd be missing out on getting to know some really nice and decent people.

Re: Living in a non-Muslim Country can be seen as a test of faith

^ then why are so many ppl afraid of having a muslim or black or worse a black muslim as a neighbor? i read some survey a while back and the numbers were alarming.

Re: Living in a non-Muslim Country can be seen as a test of faith

yeh desis are going to teach white folks tolerance towards black people. :omg:

Re: Living in a non-Muslim Country can be seen as a test of faith

yeh well then we shouldnt get lectured either :)

Re: Living in a non-Muslim Country can be seen as a test of faith

Sorry guys this is a nice thread and all but i came across this kickass ambient/lounge tune that i have to share. viva la desi torrents

http://www.sharjeel.ca/music/chevymartin-kothabaru.mp3

Sorry about the filesize its 11 mb

Re: Living in a non-Muslim Country can be seen as a test of faith

Who told you i don't respect other religions Did i say it in my comments.I just said that we are doing effort to save our religion but we don't have to do anyhing with other religions.What they are doing its no concern to us thats iwhy i tell my children its their country and you are in the land of free so don't mind if they are in bikinis.where did i show misrespect towards other?

Re: Living in a non-Muslim Country can be seen as a test of faith

no, not at all...in fact its a test when u r in muslim world n not doing the job, or even if u r doing then not by heart (i m refering to task u suppose to do as muslim).

in non muslim world no one gonna enforces u to do so, so watever u do is gonna b fully n entirely ur personal choice.

so i believe its tuff to call ur self a good muslim or pass in ny faith test without ny external force or influence n purly established self conscious in "muslim world", than in non-muslim world. (no wonder dat is y there are tonz of sects exist in pakistan, whereas we don need ny just have believe on ALLAH SWT n on Kalima shadat :))

Re: Living in a non-Muslim Country can be seen as a test of faith

:rotfl: honestly has any one ever come across a situation like this?It is tragic to fill up the mind of kids with gunk like that. I have been in a situation that is the reverse an anglo kid (about 4 or 5) making gun signs with index finger and thumb to shoot off hijabis in public library. I’d say assimilating while adhering to religion is the hardest bit about living in non muslim country, and not every one can do it. Be your own judge.

Re: Living in a non-Muslim Country can be seen as a test of faith

-interest based :omg: so u moved to islamic banking or wat??

Re: Living in a non-Muslim Country can be seen as a test of faith

It's not always so easy to drink Pepsi in such a situation, it's awkward and a lot of Non-Muslim people do make a big deal if we don't have a drink, I've had friends/classmates who made a big deal about me not being able to eat pork, drink alcohol and have to pray so often, they would say to me "f*** your religion man", I even got fed a ham and cheese toasty and they told me it was turkey... Eveentually conform not matter how strong your principals are, it’s hard when your mnate is going away at a girl on the back seat and you’re sat in the front trying to stay a virgin, it doesn’t happen.. Conformity (to good or bad) is part of human nature, it's in our nature to conform to the ways of the company we keep, too much exposure to a sin and you become desensitised to it, maybe that's why Islaam tells us to watch what sort of company we keep.

I agree that those Muslims that are to stay in these countries need to have more interactions with non-Muslims, but that can be done doing things which are allowed by our religion such as playing sports together or going to a football match or a meal at a halal/kosher place, not that many White people would want to do that with smelly big nosed Pakis..

If a Muslim doesn't go to the pub with his colleagues it doesn't mean he's being stuck up or hates his colleagues, he just wishes not to be in a sinful environment, if I start chilling at the pub and say I have kids I take them with me, they'll grow up seeing people drink so they’ll be desensitised to it and they wouldn't think it a big deal to drink, one thing leads to the next... Everyone should be allowed to choose their social circle, everyone hangs with those that share their values, to White people our non-alcoholic lifestyle would be boring, to us their alcohol consumption is wrong, that doesn't mean to say we shouldn't be respectful and cordial towards each other, at my work there is a Tranny and a Zimbabwean Seventh Day Adventist, the latter is always condemning the former saying how they don't have such abominations as trannies, gays and lesbos in his country and is very cold towards the tranny, that sort of an attitude is well wrong, if a Muslim has that sort of an attitude now that's wrong, I as a Muslim don't agree with the tranny but I have a responsibility as his colleague to behave cordially and professionally towards this person and I do despite not agreeing with their lifestyle..

It's not all bad though, not all Western/White people are unaccepting of course, I worked with this old lady in catering and she once asked me about my dietary habits and whether it was hard sticking to them, I told her it's all easy except for bacon, “bacon smells a little tempting”, all of them use to have bacon and egg butties for breakfast before then but the next day and for days afterwards they had cereal instead, they didn't say anything but I know it was because they didn't want me to feel left out and didn’t want to tempt me, now I don't like people going to any inconvenience for me and they shouldn't have to do that because I didn't mind in the least but it was very sweet of them and I'll always remember that. This lady has recently become a lil cold but that's because the Indian she works with has been brainwashing her against Pakistanis (their other colleague told me some of the things he says).