What did I miss?
Re: Listing Musharraf's failures
He is too elastic towards India to solve Kashmir Problem even he knows that other side is not willing to do so.
Re: Listing Musharraf's failures
Dera Bugti, Wana? massacres in karachi? beating up lawyers and judges? attacking TV stations? allowing foreign powers to broker and play a role in domestic politics?
Re: Listing Musharraf's failures
What did I miss?
Sold out the country to west for few billion dollars.
Our own citizens are being arrested and sent to gimto to please uncle Sam.
We have no respect in the international community.
Using intel agencies in creating and breaking political parties.
There is open hate against armed forces (I, for one, have no respect for armed forces as an institution any more).
Our relationship with neighboring countries is all times low.
Rise of extremism thanks to him for sidling main steam political parties, and extremists are filling teh vacuum.
I can go on and one...but i think thats enough for now.
Re: Listing Musharraf's failures
institutionalizing the role of army in governance
Re: Listing Musharraf's failures
What did I miss?
some of those comments are just laughtable,
when was there an end to corruption?
as for economic growth, its surly going down to the poor, millions and millions of jobs have been made with an increase in salerys, how can you say it hasnt trickled down?
as for AQ Khan its been discussed many times before, he sold our country, and dnt say he made the nuclear bombs, cos theres over 1000 scientists involved in it, his contribution in it was less then 5%.
and are you kidding about killing our own people, you really want to see terroists roam free in pakistan?
Re: Listing Musharraf's failures
corruption breeds corruption. if your paki you now about the Curse of Gandhi he inflicted on the Pakistani movement?
waisay, your points are extremely emotional or polarized.
Re: Listing Musharraf's failures
Abay, no end to corruption. The CE has placed a bloody military man at the head of every single institution in pakistan. Of course they are using it to make money. He has helped increase corruption.
Look at the rate of inflation, the increase in prices and compare that to the decrease in the average pakistan's PPP. Its a bloody negative number.
How come for 50 years these people were not terrorists but all of a sudden when the US says they are, we are going around killing our own people.
And DAMN, I missed alot. This begs the question how long or rather short is his list of accomplishments?
Re: Listing Musharraf's failures
And DAMN, I missed alot. This begs the question how long or rather short is his list of accomplishments?
Be careful. U r asking for it.
Re: Listing Musharraf's failures
How does this all compare to the list of non-Musharraf govts' achievements...?
Re: Listing Musharraf's failures
CM:
So he was solely responsible to end what he did not start and what is the bread and better of all politicians and lots of sections of society? When he steps on someone there are episodes like Lal Masjid and Wukla bradri ki tehreek for a CJ who sought reimbursement for Petrol on fake receipts from a SHELL station that sells Diesel only and who appointed his son into FIA through influence. Every chota barra has his reasons. Musharraf alone is not responsible for what everyone is doing. When he fights no one supports him.
Yeah, he should have hanged Nawaz, and Benazir above all, and the awaam wouldve loved it. But why is the awaam hating it when Nawaz is arrested, exiled, banned, Zaradari held in jail, Hashmi arrested? Look whats happening, had he done anything to them what would the awaam and its so called leaders wit help from kabhi ider kabhi udher media have done...?
What is economic growth supposed to do? improve standard of living right? Where does it have to trickle down to? The ppl in villages, farmers, drivers, cooks, guards? Their std of life has improved. One has to see and realize...
That's also cause of Musharraf!?
Did Musharraf ask them to blow up wholesale? The post 9/11 scenario was decades in the making; why blame poor Musharraf...?
Who worked a nuclear supermarket? I'm sorry if the superpower keeps checks on thse things, but you cant deny a superpower, no one has, except Taleban and Al Qaeda.
Oh its happened the first time? And mind you I mean the first time that 'own ppl' who are armed and terrorizing are killed in actual battle scenarios who challenge law order, peace and the govt aswell as national prestige. All glorious leaders of the past were famous for killing unarmed non-threat type of ppl in cities for personal motives. But that was ok right?
What did I miss?
A lot!
Shamraz:
Sold out the country to west for few billion dollars.
Few billion dollars for who?
Our own citizens are being arrested and sent to gimto to please uncle Sam.
Remeber Kansi and Ramzi? Whose fault if they've multiplied 1000 times since?
We have no respect in the international community.
Speak for yourself. besides any such issue is not because of what Musharraf has done, but what has piled up for decades...
Using intel agencies in creating and breaking political parties.
Who started this and what cause it to work so effectively...?
There is open hate against armed forces (I, for one, have no respect for armed forces as an institution any more).
Bad for you. Get your priorities and opinions right. Stop respecting the wrong and un respectable and respect the respectable.
Our relationship with neighboring countries is all times low.
Really? So, When was it at all time high? Under whose regime?
Rise of extremism thanks to him for sidling main steam political parties, and extremists are filling teh vacuum.
You mean extremists are creating the unrest that is the rightfully deserved exclusive honour for politicians and their parties? The track record of all politicians and their parties shows exactly that. And how is he responsible for extremism seriously!?
I can go on and one...but i think thats enough for now.
As might I...
Re: Listing Musharraf’s failures
suicide bombings arent his fault, if lunatics suddenly feel the urge to blow themselves in the misconception that its gonna b a quick ticket to heaven, that certainly isn’t his fault 
if anything out of any 1 in the country who is has teh abilty to bcum president he’s the only 1 that will b able to rid the counrty of these fanatics!!!
Re: Listing Musharraf's failures
CM:
Yeah, he should have hanged Nawaz, and Benazir above all, and the awaam wouldve loved it. But why is the awaam hating it when Nawaz is arrested, exiled, banned, Zaradari held in jail, Hashmi arrested? Look whats happening, had he done anything to them what would the awaam and its so called leaders wit help from kabhi ider kabhi udher media have done...?
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I quite like the idea of selective accountability. Hold every in the opposition, media and judiciary accountable, invariably sending them to life sentences, exiles, gallows (as proposed). And then pray and manipulate anything and everything to stay in power. When everything fails, run for it.
Re: Listing Musharraf's failures
1. No end to corruption.
To end corruption in Pakistan, you need a Mao style solution. Take out the politicians, the army men, some businessmen, government employees and even some average joes. So yes, Musharraf did fail in this aspect, he should have taken out NS/BB the premier (corrupt) politians of Pakistan.
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2. No accountability of those responsible for those who stole money.
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You're spot on! See #1. Asif Zardari should've been a dead man followed by NS. This whole exile and ECL lists was a joke, a Chinese solution was needed.
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3. Economic growth follows a simple feudalistic model. No trickle down effect nor increase in total wealth generation.
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The fuedal elites are fairly well entrenched, however there has been an increase in the middle class. Not much trickle down effect, but President Musharraf is only partly to blame.
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4. IPI - still a bust.
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Regional and International politics are only under a limited control of one leader. You have keep the political situation in mind.
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5. Security situation is worse. First time in Pakistan's history that we are dealing with suicide bombers.
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Pakistan should NOT have joined the war on terror? If you agree that Pakistan was right to join with the US, then the lapse in security is to be expected.
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6. AQ Khan - A national hero - is now a criminal under his watch.
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While it is true that AQ Khan was scapegoated. Any other Pakistani leader would've similarly been constrained by policy options.
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7. Killing our own people on a regular basis.
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This is very true. I agree with you on that. I don't see how NS/BB/Zia or leaders of yesteryears were more compassionate.
I am not saying that Musharraf is the ideal person to lead Pakistan, however his intentions are better than the predecessors.
Re: Listing Musharraf's failures
CM:
Yeah, he should have hanged Nawaz, and Benazir above all, and the awaam wouldve loved it. But why is the awaam hating it when Nawaz is arrested, exiled, banned, Zaradari held in jail, Hashmi arrested? Look whats happening, had he done anything to them what would the awaam and its so called leaders wit help from kabhi ider kabhi udher media have done...?
Absolutely!
It is ridiculous for anyone to talk about cleaning up corruption without toppling the two heads of the corruption snake, NS/BB. These two have done much worse things to Pakistan and they are still free and alive.
Accountability should begin with them. Who cares about the Pakistani awam? Not BB, not NS. We all know what happens when sham democracy returns to Pakistan, same old faces, same old looting.
Re: Listing Musharraf's failures
but we are not talking about nawaz here in this thread are we?
It's sad. Isn't it. When u can't even tell.
Re: Listing Musharraf's failures
And DAMN, I missed alot. This begs the question how long or rather short is his list of accomplishments?
well for sure he's slipped on many a tall promises that he made to the nation when descended upon us from the skies but at least give him credit where due. For instance:
the unprecedented huge amount of development work that he has initiated from FATA down to Karachi including Balochistan.
Getting rid of that king of thugs Bugti in Balochistan. I guess that one achievement of Mush will be enough wash away all his sins.
hmmmm .... I guess thats about it. Once he's gone, he'll be remembered for all the bridges & flyovers that were built (and came down) during his tenure.
Re: Listing Musharraf's failures
CM:
So he was solely responsible to end what he did not start and what is the bread and better of all politicians and lots of sections of society? When he steps on someone there are episodes like Lal Masjid and Wukla bradri ki tehreek for a CJ who sought reimbursement for Petrol on fake receipts from a SHELL station that sells Diesel only and who appointed his son into FIA through influence. Every chota barra has his reasons. Musharraf alone is not responsible for what everyone is doing. When he fights no one supports him.
Yeah, he should have hanged Nawaz, and Benazir above all, and the awaam wouldve loved it. But why is the awaam hating it when Nawaz is arrested, exiled, banned, Zaradari held in jail, Hashmi arrested? Look whats happening, had he done anything to them what would the awaam and its so called leaders wit help from kabhi ider kabhi udher media have done...?
What is economic growth supposed to do? improve standard of living right? Where does it have to trickle down to? The ppl in villages, farmers, drivers, cooks, guards? Their std of life has improved. One has to see and realize...
That's also cause of Musharraf!?
Did Musharraf ask them to blow up wholesale? The post 9/11 scenario was decades in the making; why blame poor Musharraf...?
Who worked a nuclear supermarket? I'm sorry if the superpower keeps checks on thse things, but you cant deny a superpower, no one has, except Taleban and Al Qaeda.
Oh its happened the first time? And mind you I mean the first time that 'own ppl' who are armed and terrorizing are killed in actual battle scenarios who challenge law order, peace and the govt aswell as national prestige. All glorious leaders of the past were famous for killing unarmed non-threat type of ppl in cities for personal motives. But that was ok right?
What did I miss?
Haris,
most of Musharaf's failures that you're trying to deflect as not his making, we all know were & are not his making. But remember, he fell from skies promising to fix the problems that were & still are plaguing the society. He loathed & ridiculed (and very rightly so) the politicians & the political structure and held them responsible for the most the country's ills including corruption, law & order, economy, education and anything & everything in between. He promised to give us a clean stable & trasparent system of governence, a better of sense of security and speedy justice. But sadly, today things look just as gloomy as they were 7 yrs ago. We hailed him, dance out on the streets and distributed sweets when he kicked out Nawaz. If he had right away initiated an unbiased system of accountability and made NS & all other political crooks & jokers stand trials through that system, NS political career would have been finished long ago and we would be having a lot cleaner political system holding roots by now. but what did he? sent him off under a dubious exile deal and made him a hero now and himself got busy collecting other opportunists & sycophants to only further his own rule. Today look at him - how desperately he's running from pillar to post, begging for deals from same corrupt political jokers whom he was loathing & ridiculing 7 yrs ago - all that just to keep his own grip on the power. Who's fault is this ??
>>Musharraf alone is not responsible for what everyone is doing
actually he's been the one man show in the country for the last 7 yrs and yes, he's responsible for everything & everyone that he has thrusted upon us as part of his claim to deliver a better system of governence. If Chief Justice is corrupt & taking undue advantage of his official position then by all means, Musharraf should lynch him to death but then he should also take his imported PM Shoky to task to try to sell the biggest industrial asset of Paksitan under a dubious deal & also for his alleged involvement in Karachi stock market crash for which the investigation report has been swept under the carpet quietly.
IPI bust is deinitely not Musharraf's fault but after 7 yrs, it starts to wear out to say "I didn't do it" you didn't do it but you came here to fix it. What he's done in these yrs in regards to IPI issue?
And your reasoning about wholesale suiciders & post 9/11 scenario is pretty weak. As a career military officer of Pak army who actually saw through the entire Soviet-Afghan saga & the struggle against Indian occupation in Kashmir, he of all should have been better prepared to deal with 9/11 situation. All those medrashas & training camps that cropped up in northerns belt of the country were pretty much the results of far reaching goals & dreams of the senior leadership of our army. Remember, in the wake of Lal masjid how there was a spate of suicide bombings and what did his government do? nothing; it just sat & watched people dying and hoped that this wave of suicide bombing will eventually wear out. Where is that new strategy to combat terrorism??
If A.Q Khan was running a nuclear supermarket then our Army leadership was providing the security blanket to that grocery store. This nexus was necessary to the success of the nuclear program but unfortunately when the crunch time came, Musharraf chose to fix the noose around that hapless A.Q Khan's neck.
Foreign policy failure has been the biggest bloat on Musharraf's resume. Today as a nation we've been reduced to a banana republic which can be kicked around from various directions and whose president stand ready to take dictation even before the words are spoken by his masters. While India is being offered advanced weapon systems by the US, our president is happy to receive a few walky talky sets & all terrain vehicles. US is going out of its way to offer energy deals, when our tough talking president makes some noise, he gets a pat on the shoulder and the usual dose or "do more" lecture. We're bending over to please India - opening border crossings, signing anti-terrorism pacts (thereby implying that we were involved in India-specific terrorism activities), ordering cease fire along IB, thereby affording Indians a chance to fence the borders, pleading India day & nite to discuss Kashmir issue. What concessions we've gained from India so far ???
I thought Musharraf was for a change. At least thats what he led us to believe initially. As it turned out, he's just part of that time-immortal setup of those professional political crooks & military junta which has been leeching & fleecing the country since forever.
Re: Listing Musharraf's failures
Free media
Free courts
3 Improved economy
Re: Listing Musharraf's failures
The courts were not free. Mushy tried to seriously undermine them. They fought back. They won. I suspect foreign pressure had a hell of a lot to do with it. In any case, you can't antagonize the entire legal system and not expect it to bite you back later on...the reversal was wise.