Lieutenant-General Ahmad Shuja Pasha should do the decent things and resign

Re: Lieutenant-General Ahmad Shuja Pasha should do the decent things and resign

according to one report I heard they said the American helicopters flew from Afghanistan, flew under the radar to evade detection and came to Abbottabad. The only thing which does not gel with this report is that if that had happened than how could they have been there for 40 minutes without Pakistan army taking any action.

Re: Lieutenant-General Ahmad Shuja Pasha should do the decent things and resign

Kiani an Pasha and all military leadership is nothing but american's puppet pigs.....

Re: Lieutenant-General Ahmad Shuja Pasha should do the decent things and resign

I doubt it, as you said the choppers were there for 40 minutes during operation, no action, choppers flew away, no action. It just means failure on all counts.

Re: Lieutenant-General Ahmad Shuja Pasha should do the decent things and resign

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/03/world/asia/03pakistan.html

Re: Lieutenant-General Ahmad Shuja Pasha should do the decent things and resign

you said the helicopters flew with knowledge of the Pak Military. On this particular point, there should be clarity. It is worse to appear so blitheringly incompetent.

Re: Lieutenant-General Ahmad Shuja Pasha should do the decent things and resign

there is this picture of a crashed chopper at one of the compound walls on Yahoo. The chopper probably did not fly away.

Re: Lieutenant-General Ahmad Shuja Pasha should do the decent things and resign

well listen Obama and H. Clinton's messages again - They clearly mentioned that the lead to OBL was given by Pakistani Agencies ...

Re: Lieutenant-General Ahmad Shuja Pasha should do the decent things and resign

there was nothing to detect. Even though proof will be slow and hard to come by, my money is on the theory that ISI was well aware and in fact participated in hiding obl right there in their own frontyard. It was widely spoken of as Pakistan intelligently playing the game and holding on to OBL to be released at the right time for a big big gain.

Re: Lieutenant-General Ahmad Shuja Pasha should do the decent things and resign

BTW the news reports on radio clearly state openly that Pakistani authorities were NOT informed on purpose.

Re: Lieutenant-General Ahmad Shuja Pasha should do the decent things and resign

Purpose is fine, as long as they were informed of the flight and given blessings. Now, there are other problems with this scenairo, however at least the PakMilitary doesn't come out looking like complete loosers.

Re: Lieutenant-General Ahmad Shuja Pasha should do the decent things and resign

exactly. Only way this could have happened is if the highest leader, Kayani, Shuja (and Gilani?) were informed and inturn they took some action within their respective organizations that inhibited response the choppers

Re: Lieutenant-General Ahmad Shuja Pasha should do the decent things and resign

Ok, let me be devil's advocate and at the risk of attracting conspiracy theorists attacking me , let me ask a question.

There is so much secracy around this whole operation and no one is giving clear answers and every one is so cautious in their statements. reading the description of the osama hideout dont you think it seems more like a prison. what are the chances that osama was actually house arrested over there under common knowledge of both the parties and americans killed him when the time was right.
I mean according to the description of the building anyone would have doubts over the inhabitants . why would osama attract attention. Whats the point in high walls with barbed wires when your plan is to hide not to make it as your fort.

Serious question, constipation theorists please go to next thread.

Re: Lieutenant-General Ahmad Shuja Pasha should do the decent things and resign

Here is another theory (which is not far-fetched)

Given that Obama has already said "US was able to track Obama with the cooperation of Pakistan". Even if the compound was identified with the help of ISI, Pakistani Govt, Army or ISI are not going to claim the credit and would try to distant themselves from it in public for obvious reasons.

Its unthinkable the Americans would go so deep into Pakistan near PMA and still never thought of getting response from Pakistani forces. with Pakistani army not knowing whats going on, they should have come out and replied anyway. 40 min of firing near PMA can not be left unattended.

Re: Lieutenant-General Ahmad Shuja Pasha should do the decent things and resign

I meant, they were not informed for a particular reason.

However you just gave me another idea - may be Kiyani was informed of 'a mission' so that the choppers can come in and get out without being repelled, but the mission wasn't revealed

Re: Lieutenant-General Ahmad Shuja Pasha should do the decent things and resign

anything is possible and while it may not be a prison in the traditional sense, if you mean under the 'care & guard of Pakistani officials' this theory has a lot of merit.

Re: Lieutenant-General Ahmad Shuja Pasha should do the decent things and resign

Actually that does not seem to be the case here and Pakistan's intelligence infact pinpointed OBL's hiding place in Abbottabad. i.e. The operation was very much with the consent and cooperation of Pakistan though conducted entirely by the Americans

Obama's exact words in his address:
"Over the years, I’ve repeatedly made clear that we would take action within Pakistan if we knew where bin Laden was. That is what we’ve done. But it’s important to note that our counterterrorism cooperation with Pakistan helped lead us to bin Laden and the compound where he was hiding. Indeed, bin Laden had declared war against Pakistan as well and ordered attacks against the Pakistani people. Tonight, I called President Zardari, and my team has also spoken with their Pakistani counterparts. They agree that this is a good and historic day for both of our nations. And going forward, it is essential that Pakistan continue to join us in the fight against al Qaeda and its affiliates."

Re: Lieutenant-General Ahmad Shuja Pasha should do the decent things and resign

^ thats a very speculative interpretation of him just giving credit to Pakistan for information related to the compound. Brennan held a press conference recently where he definitively says :

  1. Pakistan was not informed
  2. Whether Pakistan had a role in the ‘support system’ will be investigated

Re: Lieutenant-General Ahmad Shuja Pasha should do the decent things and resign

Ravage, Americans may have kept secret the timing of the operation (that is probably what 'not informed' means) but what-else can one infer from

Obama's exact words:
"But it’s important to note that our counterterrorism cooperation with Pakistan helped lead us to bin Laden and the compound where he was hiding"

except that Pak intelligence played a crucial part in tracking down OBL. It is self-explanatory isn' it?

Re: Lieutenant-General Ahmad Shuja Pasha should do the decent things and resign

Did CIA director resign after 9/11 attacks?

Did any US General resign after allowing Osama escape from right under their noses (Tora Bora, Afghanistan) in late 2001?

Did MI5 chief resign after 7/7 attacks?

Re: Lieutenant-General Ahmad Shuja Pasha should do the decent things and resign

lets remember that the chain of events leading to this goes back to 2004 or so when the nickname of the courier was found. then they found his name. then around september last year they discovered this compound by following the courier. At any point in this sequence of events (and many more we dont know of) Pakistan's intelligence agencies could have been playing the role he mentions. 'what else'... theres a lot else he could be referring to.

we can hope that Pakistan's military was aware of it, but its very speculative to infer a partnership based on this statement