Liberation by Veil

Society Religion & Philosophy
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**
[QUOTE]
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The victim was wearing revealing dress that seduced them
**
[/QUOTE]
**
A very old trick in criminal law to put the blame on victim. Arguing that somehow the victim enticed the behaviour and shares the responsibility for what happened. One word PATHETIC.

[QUOTE]

may think you respect women, but you only do when they fall into the neat little package you have established for what a woman of worth is. It's EXACTLY the same mentality as rapists

[/QUOTE]

BRAVO. I couldn't agree more.

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Re: Liberation by Veil

@ MatineeSiren](http://www.paklinks.com/gs/members/matineesiren.html)

I respect your views and understand what you are saying. I have shared what I learned from different sources, which might not be correct in some cases. **I am not equating women to objects of property. **What I shared was how I understand a rapist looks at a woman, i.e. a sexual object.

@janab-e-ali

There was a typing error. I have corrected it. It was not “second” but “minute”. That is what I heard on a TV program. I don’t remember its name as I saw it quite sometime ago. Anyways, as I said I have shared what I learned from different sources. I am glad that you have corrected me, so that I may not rely on those sources in future and think more logically by considering other sources as well.

Thanks both of you for your replies, it indeed helps me in removing faults in my way of thinking and improve my knowledge from better sources through more logical thinking.

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Thank you. I just get very upset outside of unbiased research (though I must admit, I am still biased in that regard, but I don't admit it or let it affect me), when I see crap like that. His mentality and those stereotypes have ruined so many lives. They force the victim to accept some form of blame for the victimization, and prevent justice from reaching the courts. They don't think that's the case, but it is.

People will always blame the victim when they're too cowardly to accept that bad things can happen to you no matter what you do. It's a coping mechanism that demonizes victims in order to assume some sense of comfort for those engaging in it.

Rape isn't about sex, it's about power. People think it's about sex because it's a sexual violation, but it's not the motivation for it. The motivation is dominance and humiliation, and sex becomes the weapon.

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You do not understand why rapists commit these crimes, that’s the entire point. Women are not viewed merely as sexual objects, they are viewed as less than human. And here, when you attribute worth to women who “cover themselves,” in the form of modesty, you are in effect creating a system of human value, wherein if a woman does not fit your mold for retaining value, you devalue her and thus dehumanize her. That is exactly what rapists do.

Cast your ego aside, and think about that.

~~~Missing Someone~~~
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We all are in the process of learning and improving ourselves. Let us not judge intentions of any member and stick to sharing of our views on the topic only.

Before I proceed with the discussion, I would like to know which belief system / religion you follow. This would make it easier for me to reply to your post. I understand that common sense doesn't have a religion but we do have beliefs which helps our thinking process.

Thanks.

Ur mood ?
26

I didn't judge you solely, I stated that the mentality you exhibited is common to rapists. It's also common to many non rapists. However, it's more than a correlation, it causes these incidents of violence to occur. As I stated before, I am a sociologist. I also hold a bachelors in religious studies. I make it my job to understand all aspects of belief and social conditioning that lead to (specifically, as I also stated this is my life's goal), violence against women.

My beliefs and religion have no relevance to this discussion. These are the cold, hard facts. If you want to argue them, you have to return with cold, hard facts, not anything else. My spiritual beliefs have no sway on my academic leanings. You cannot achieve true knowledge if you are biased in your approach to a subject.

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Re: Liberation by Veil

Hmm..makes sense. I am fine with that. Even if such mentality is common to rapists (in your opinion which is not the ultimate truth and might be wrong), I feel the need to inform you that by the grace of Lord, neither am I a rapist nor does ego have any influence on my views, specially in the type of topics under discussion.

Anyways, you said :
[quote]
The ONLY correlation between rape and clothing are LOOSE clothing, dresses, skirts (of any length), and long hair. It's easier to rape a woman in an abaya and a hijab than it is to rape a woman in jeans.
[/quote]
What are your views on revealing dresses, the ones in which ones assets are not properly hidden ? Should they be avoided by women in public places where they come across a lot of strangers ?

Ur mood ?
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It is not merely my opinion, it is the opinion of all psychologists, anthropologists, and sociologists who have researched this.

That's up to the women who wear them. When you dress like a sure thing, you expect to be treated like a sure thing. However, you also expect to retain physical integrity and have the right to accept or decline offers.

I personally would not dress in a revealing manner, because I do not feel comfortable doing so. But it does not mean that I am more virtuous by default--because modesty is based on our social mores. Many tribal societies allow their women to run around with but a mere loin cloth on (that means everything is exposed except the vulva), and they are no more at risk of being assaulted because of it.

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Re: Liberation by Veil

itz not the woman's fault tht they get raped....the rapist would even rape a woman in abaya...just to conclude though....the victim should not give the rapist any excuse....after all it iz her chastity were tolkn bout..

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But you said
[QUOTE]
The ONLY correlation between rape and clothing are LOOSE clothing, dresses, skirts (of any length), and long hair. It's easier to rape a woman in an abaya and a hijab than it is to rape a woman in jeans.
[/QUOTE]

If they are no more at risk because of what you mentioned in many tribal societies, then how come long hair, and loose clothes are the **ONLY **correlation between rape and clothing ?

Todays winners, report here.
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Period.

Those who oppose it, let them take it up with Allah on the day of judgement.

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Those don't contradict eachother. You said that revealing clothing leads men to rape. I provided the example of tribal societies and naked women not being raped because of their dress--thus how modesty is socially determined.

The only correlation between rape and clothing IS loose clothing.

Do you understand now?

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No one here opposed it, pay attention.

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So, do you mean to say that if she is wearing LOOSE clothes she would get raped but if she is wearing (according to you)
[quote]
a mere loin cloth on (that means everything is exposed except the vulva)
[/quote]
**she is no more at risk of being assaulted because of it ?

Also, what about **long hair ? Does that matter in those tribal areas ? (Which you mentioned part of that ONLY correlation with rape)

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YOU said that revealing clothing seduces men into rape (i.e. correlates). I stated that it does not, and gave you an example of a society in which women wear practically NOTHING, and yet are no more at risk of rape because of it. Modesty is based on our SOCIAL boundaries, and thus is highly subjective. You equated immodest dress with rape, and it is not the case (again, as seen in societies where women wear practically nothing).

The correlation between loose clothing and rape is that it is EASIER to subdue a woman by grabbing her clothing (or her long hair), and it is easier to remove the clothing when it is not tight to the body.
It is easier to assault a woman wearing an abaya than it is to assault a woman wearing tight jeans.

Clear?

Taqdeer and Dua
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Re: Liberation by Veil

facepalm

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Re: Liberation by Veil

We all know there are mentally ill people found in every society, who could get excited and can't control their temptations when they see women with even a bit of revealing in their dresses. The more the revealing, the more they get excited. As it is not written on their faces that they are potential rapists, and they can be found in any field in any department. They might be only patiently waiting for the right time and opportunity to attack them.

How can a woman make sure she is safe from such people when she goes out with reveling dress or very less dress ?

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It's not mental illness, it's the conditioning of a society. When women are viewed as women,but as equals (and not subjected to strict gender roles as well), then we won't see rape occur anymore. While I personally believe that men who commit this crime are evil and should be executed, we do understand a large part of why there is such a prevelance of rape across the globe.

As I said before, rape is not about sex. A man may be attracted to a woman, and when she rejects him, the goal is no longer to have sex with her, it is to dominate and humiliate her. Sex becomes the weapon, but not the motivation.

Women need to be socialized to be STRONG, and NOT submissive. They need to learn from childhood that it's ok to play rough. Boys are expected to take care of their problems themselves, and girls are expected to run home to their mothers crying when someone slights them. This needs to change. We equate masculinity to aggressiveness and independence, while we equate femininity with fragility and submissiveness. This needs to change

I view it this way. Instead of trying to fight the symptoms of this social ill, fight the disease. And the disease is in the mind.

~*~ Time Pass June 2012 ~*~
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May be it is according to your point of view..but i completely disagree with it.Abaya is usually worn on top of other outfits,its not the only thing a woman wears right on top of her skin.
Alhamdulillah i have been wearing veil since i was 17 years old and its been a couple of years now,Alhamdulillah in the whole time by the grace of Allah not a single stranger ever tried to touch me while the same was not true for my peers who didn't wear the veil but some wore the hijab while some not,but still they would be the prey of the dirty gazes of men..sometimes touches..sometimes dirty sexual comments.Alhamdulillah in those times i thanked Allah for His guidance.
May Allah forgive me if i said anything wrong and guide the entire humanity to righteousness.

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There are mentally ill (sexually frustrated) people in every society who are not able to find a girl friend due to any reason and wish to satisfy their evil desires through rape. Let us not deny this fact.

I also believe that but the problem is that (as I mentioned before) it is not written on their faces that they would commit this crime in future, and there is no use in their execution once they have committed the rape which can't be undone.

You can't say this about 100 % cases. There definitely are a lot of cases where rape is committed only to satisfy one's desires.

That sounds very good, but the bitter reality is that nature has made woman physically weak as compared to men. How many woman do you know who would be able to physically dominate a man if somehow she is trapped by him in a room ?

This also sounds to be a good idea, but how would you educate men in the streets, who don't come to you for learning. Even if their is an awareness program somewhere, that is in USA. Still the rate of rape is rising there at a very fast rate.