Did I say anything about hijabis? No. It’s all in your head. Azerbaijanis are famous for their phoniness…with their dyed blonde hair and designer bags. Ever been to a party full of Azerbaijani women? Obviously not.
As to why these countries are liberal…well, they were under Russian occupation for a long time so obviously they got heavily influenced by Western culture. Turkey also went through the strict secularisation after the caliphate. This is not how they always used to dress up…of course, such so-called liberation came with the price of loss of identity.
First of all, in your original post, you specifically said ’ Muslims ’ who wear short skirts are Phony. What does that have to do with people of Azerbaijan and their culture. Nothing. So get your facts straight before accusing me of saying something wrong. If you want to specifically point out people of Azerbaijan then you should have said so instead of saying Muslims in your original post.
Secondly, No I haven’t been to an Azerbaijan party. But I have been to various Persian, Iraqi, Lebanese, and Turkish parties/weddings where women will wear short skirts and nobody frowns upon it. But if someone was to wear the same type of clothes at a Pakistani party/wedding people will probably think she is a slut even if they don’t know her name.
Dyed Blonde hair and designer bags? Really? That’s the best you could come up with? Sad. If that’s the scale to identify as someone as phony, then millions of Chinese and Koreans are phony as well. I just don’t understand what the obsession is with what people wear and what their hair color is? Majority of the terrorist attacks that happen in the world are unfortunately carried out by Muslims. Now if the Western world was to generalize and judge people the way you do, then we would all be terrorists. If not all of us, then definitely, all the Muslims who have beards or wear a hijab would be labelled as terrorists. But that’s not the case. Its because these people are educated and know not to judge a religion by the actions of just a few people.
Like I said earlier and I will say it again. Why can’t we leave people alone and let them be without judging them? Why do we have to call somebody phony just because they do something which we wouldn’t do. I fail to understand how somebody’s dyed blonde hair and designer bag could bother somebody? Its beyond me. Unbelievable that some people are so quick to label somebody phony just because of dyed blonde hair and designer bags.
Thirdly, so these countries are liberal because of Russian influence? So I guess all the liberal people, who’s parties I have been to, ranging from Lebanon, Turkey, Iran, and Egypt… all must have been under Russian influence at one stage. I’m sorry to say but you are absolutely wrong. It has nothing to do with that. Its all about controlling the extremist elements in your society and being an open minded society.
Majority of the countries that I mentioned in my post earlier have extremist elements in their society but they have them under control and they do not control the state policy and neither can these groups intimidate/scare the normal population.
Perfect example of the failure of the Pakistani system and people…Saeed Ajmal opened his Cricket academy in Faisalabad and it was in the news a few weeks ago that some extremist elements phoned him and threatened to attack his academy because women and men were practicing together. He shut down his cricket academy for the time being because of that. This is SHAMEFUL to say the least. Extremists roam around freely and no one dares to touch them in Pakistan because as a society we have come to the point where we think it is wrong to confront them about anything that has to do with Islam. These co called champions of Islam should be put behind bars until they learn the art of tolerance.
I truly and honestly hope this Pakistani nation goes back to era before the architect of this whole good Muslim theory, Zia Ul Haq, took over. I wish we become a tolerant and open minded society once again.
I dunno about Arabs and their madranpan but ask the average Bosnian, Azeri, Albanian, Turkish Alevi/Uzbek/Kazakh/Turkmen, Iranian/Tajik blabla about the role of Islam in their everyday lives. It is like a comparing pears with apples kind of thing I guess?
I am not saying that Pakistanis are better (practicing) muslims than non-Pakistanis… dont get me wrong.. but if you were to ask the average Pakistani the same question, the answer would probably be a significant role. Even if we are bigger hypocrites..
Kid, you don’t exactly sound like the epitome of tolerance, dontchya? Asking bloody whole nation to change their culture and values just for the heck of it.
Although I agree that Pakistan needs to be a little more tolerant. Especially those stupid guys that hang out on the streets and stare at anything that moves but asking a whole nation to adopt a complete different culture?? not ok.
Am I telling you to stop expressing your opinion? No I’m not. You expressed your opinion about something so did I. It’s obvious from your posts who’s the kid here. Anyway, I don’t want to bang my head against a stone wall. Continue on calling people phony because of the color of their hair and designer bags and I will continue living my life respecting each individual for who he/she is regardless of their culture/religion or what color someone’s hair is and if they have designer bags
I think we should not do kawa chala hans ki chaal, when women crave for appreciation for their bodies, they should not go for turkey or azerbijan model.
They should follow their real roots. They should go for tummy less saris, and towards ancient indian goddesses.(they were pretty advance with clothing)
That perhaps would suite them more.
Quran commands men to lower their gaze as much as it tells the women to cover themselves. So we have to investigate the actual fault and address it as a society. Having said that, it is not proper to don skirt(s) or any clothing which would violate the guidelines set by Allah (s.w.t.), because that’s the other extreme. This rule being applicable for men and women alike. Cannot fight injustice with injustice, and one extreme with another.
AlHamdulillah that a vast majority within non-liberated countries dress closer to Islamic way either because of culture or because they truly believe it is the proper following of commandment, and instead of expecting an amendment in the the expectations of the deen, we should all work to find solutions to address the ills of society which are caused by our own wrongdoings and lack of knowledge. Progress does not mean abandoning the basic identity, religious affiliation and adhering to the Quran and Sunnah without compromise, neither does being religious mean having an anti-progress and/or anti-advancement stance. This is a misconception that we’re all victims of unfortunately. Our perceptions about each other are so twisted that we never address the cause, and always look for ways to redress the symptoms.
When we start thinking like our righteous predecessors and treat every other muslim as a better believer than ourselves, inshaAllah we’ll become more concerned about our own actions rather than looking for labels for others.
I do agree that people should not be judged upon how they dress, and I also agree that just because I find something immoral, others might not necessarily do the same, and therefore I can not impose my views on them.
Nor should one aspect of a human being define them completely as a person.
But with that said, dressing modestly is one of the positive traits of the subcontinental culture, I am more than happy to adopt. Obviously that would apply to both males and females.
This is exactly the kind of condecending attitude that we need to do away with and don’t be so butthurt. Indian women show their bellys and their girls wear whatever they fancy, that is pretty liberal and shows tolerance, you may like it or not. It’s a minor thing if you think about its just clothes at the end of the day, but when you take away the element of choice then we have a problem. I know our men see it as a way to protect us, but these other muslim countries have same protective men, who love their daughters/wives and let them wear these (wowzer) dresses. I find that mind boggling because I know how my people see it and labelling someone behaya is so common, forget skin show, tight clothes are unacceptable too. I don’t understand how others have managed to move passed that and we are still busy being rigid on even trivial matters like clothes. We are not Iran but getting there.. (I like Iranians, but not their govenments moral policing of its people)
But it’s not a trivial matter from a muslim, wait scratch that, even from a Pakistani perspective. This again goes back to each country having its’ own cultural values, and/or closeness to religion. Perhaps instead of trying to convince an entire community/nation to adopt to a standard, it would be more fruitful and likely to be achieved to work on getting the loved ones to adopt so that immediate surroundings and social circles are more pleasant and bearable. Because asking an entire community/nation to undo with values which do have religious significance from scripture is the other extreme, and that deserves to be condemned as much as the religious extreme. The rigidity is found on both ends of the spectrum.
Something which is mentioned in the Quran can’t be taken as trivial; it is not. This is perhaps what brother Monk was trying to get at albeit in a crude manner, that if an individual wants to adopt a fashion trend, they should go right ahead but don’t try to find justification for it from within the religion because there isn’t any.
Is a liberal muslim country, a country that is okay following some parts of the Quran and Sunnah and overlooking the others? Because I see plenty of that in Pakistan. Pakistan is as liberal as any other liberal country; it’s just flavored different.
Asking bloody whole nation to change their culture and values just for the heck of it.
but asking a whole nation to adopt a complete different culture?? not ok.
, and haters can all sulk! 
